Thanks for the answer, I'm going nuts here while my pc is apart and this is going on lol. I guess its not a huge deal at all if i still get the weapon damage, but it for sure does bum me out cause i just found some things that worked real well. I guess its back to the drawing board haha But they better treat other dot powers the same not just sorc and nature. I kind of feel ripped off in a way. I mean WM and voracious plants is good but not OP in any way, especially with the longer animation voracious got, and harvest with the WM bonus still stinks lol. I don't even see why they felt like the changes had to be made. They just came out with some new stuff and already you have powers that cant utilize it.
I think other DoT powers will not see this treatment because you need clipping to keep their DoTs ticking. If you're doing WM Combos, those DoTs will lapse. Nature is different because Harvest can keep all those DoTs running with a single power.
Spent some time reading through the rest of the pages. . .lots of folks are with me on the 20 sp cost. Yes i'm all for rounding out my character, (example as a controller i usually take both Crit Chance/Dmg and Vit or Dom), but often times for the weapons i want to master i'm choosing from skill points that I absolutely don't need (defense for example is completely useless to anyone above level 30 since it's not even a 1% increase). Curious if anyone read my original post (what I said on page 17), to hear thoughts? (Remander I'm looking at you )
Heh, I read it Arach. As far as the combo choices, I also think some are odd and others are noticeably absent. Honestly, though, I don't care as much about that. I agree about the SP cost, but I don't think they'll budge. They want a long term SP sink, so we aren't back here next year talking about how having 183 SP isn't much better than 150. No one will be able to max out their roles for a long time with this system. I'm ok with that. Means you have to make hard choices, even with beau coup SP!
Well sorc is the same as those others and it got a WM nerf just cause of a pet. I know the fury is good but if you don't give it power it sucks. But besides the dot thing if you use swarm or fury you don't get the WM bonus...now that's stupid if you ask me. Like common now swarm is no where near that good that the WM bonus needs to be taken away just cause you use it. There basically saying that one tick from swarm is just to beast to benefit from WM. Swarm is only one dot and unlike the other poisons it has to be used frequently. I don't see why using swarm should cancel out the WM bonus. For nature swarm, voracious and weapon combos are all we have for mobs really. So making swarm take away our WM bonus puts us at a disadvantage rite there. So now I can only use WM combos and VP if I want the WM bonus ...that sounds like nature just got the shaft big time. Swarm is only one dot and when it splits it's not even that good. I DO NOT agree with having swarm take away natures WM bonus. I don't like that having poisons out takes the WM bonus away either but I can see how it could tip the scales, but swarm lol. Swarm should not be included in this and we should still be able to get a bonus using it. Only using dots should cancel out the WM bonus not swarm.
Well heck man I mean I have 170 sp, and I'm going to have a really hard time speccing properly. Sure I'm also for having an SP sink, but at 15, I still would need another 50+ sp before I'd be even close to maxing things, and getting 50+sp in a year is not likely. (btw remander, read ur Might v Prec post, read my comment). The combos right now are the thing I'm mainly wanting changed besides the SP part b/c I just want them to flow. I mean c'mon, you can have shield but you can't combine it with 1h? That's just bizarro. . . And of course then there's lowly Dual Pistols. . . ugh that's just a mess.
Yeah, I think they want you to have to choose. Do I take WM and sacrifice some of my other DPS bonuses? Do I try and master multiple weapon combos and sacrifice more? Do I just unlock the 3rd tier stat boosts? Or do I just stick with what I've got? I think this is designed to be the ultimate SP sink. If you look at how many SPs we can acquire annually with DLCs and seasonals, it'll take years to max out. Heck, the game might be defunct before anyone can, lol! It's similar to this ultimate balance pass. I think they're simply tired of doing little tweaks here and there. If they get all this crap out of the way, they can focus their efforts squarely on producing content, which I think is what most of us really want. Oh, and D3vil wants to have a word with you about DP.
Haha yeah I figured D3vil would try to find me. . . Don't get me wrong, I want to like pistols. . . really. . .but man the WM combos just don't work at all, and I have never been able to get by the moving around and the vunerability
Quick and dirty testing reveals that I'm still seeing a buff after the WM combo whether I have the Fury out or not. I took the point out of the ability and it made no difference. Can someone else confirm?
So, just did some testing with the new changes. Stuck with Electricity and the quick, but deadly Hand Clap to Shuriken Storm. Might was 4044, prec was 1520. Here are the averages, including crits, after 10 runs of each: Shockwave Unbuffed = 651 Shockwave with Electrified PI = 1219 (~87% boost over base) Hand Clap Mastery = 463 Shuriken Storm Mastery = 308 x 4 (but ~1/3 of the time 5) ticks = 1340 total Shockwave Buffed = 1292 (~98% boost over base) Shockwave buffed with Electrified PI = 2005 (~200% boost over base!) Note that even with a full might build, the Shuriken Storm Mastery still does more damage than the buffed Shockwave, unless you also have the PI. These WM combos are potent! So, with PI and WM buff, the total damage was ~3800 on average for a combo that takes ~2 sec or ~1900 DPS. What if I take a little longer (~3 sec) and use Stomp Smash to Enhanced Shuriken? Well, the Shockwave damage increases substantially: Shockwave Buffed =1746 (~168% boost over base!) Shockwave Buffed with Electrified PI = 2816 (~332% boost over base!) One of the longest WM combos, Brawling Haymaker to 2-H Homerun (~5 sec), gives an amazing boost: Melee Hit = 324 x 3 = 972 total Launching Uppercut = 1496 Haymaker Mastery = 2595 Homerun Mastery = 3266 Shockwave Buffed = 2329 (~257% boost over base!) Shockwave Buffed with Electrified PI = 3891 (~497% boost over base!) So, with PI and WM buff, the total damage was ~12220 on average for a combo that takes ~5 sec or ~2444 DPS, so the buff doesn't seem linear. The longer the combo, the greater the DPS potential. I did see one crazy Homerun Mastery crit for 9581, while I was messing around. The highest one in my test runs was 5031. Downside to using the longer combo is that you can only get 2 in before you have to reapply the PI! I suspect these boost percentages carry over to abilities with different base damages, so on the low end, you're looking at a little less than double damage, and at the high end it's 5 times damage! It's also worth noting that having an active PI effectively doubles the WM boost. FWIW, I also tested Electrocute DoTs running through the WM buff window several times and did not get a single crit or significant damage increase above normal. Now, I know some have found DoT increases, so perhaps it depends on the DoT.
Was interested in how Celestial might use this, so compared WM to RcW with RcW spam. To complete a Hand Clap to Shuriken Storm followed by RcW takes ~6.5 sec. In that same time, I was able to get off 3 RcW clipped together. RcW = 4111 x 3 = 12333 or ~1897 DPS WM (1803 from above data) to RcW (4761--only Retribution tick is buffed) = 6564 or ~1009 DPS Clearly not worth it for Celestial's bread and butter combo, and keep in mind that was with a full might build, rather than the usual full precision Celestial build.
Hey welcome to weapon mastery...Oh sorry your nature you can't use it is basically what the devs are saying rite now, there has to be a better fix then just saying you cant use any of your useful powers or WM won't work. When i did the alert before the change to nature i actually did it faster being rage. Even with 2 dots, swarm and carnage going doing WM combos leading into voracious plants with the buff and i still did it faster with rage. I'm not saying rage is op im just saying that even before the changes nature wasn't OP in any way. Yea it was great in the rite hands but rage still pulled out on top. So i'm really not sure what would justify a nerf like this?? Maybe on paper it might seem to good but in game nature is relatively slow and WM combos slow down its burst damage even more. One thing i find stupid is you don't get the WM bonus if you use swarm?? Swarm is not a op power at all its just a dot which isn't that good compared to briar or vl and it splits terribly. On mobs its a waste of time to spread poisons so swarm and vp is really all we have for them, but now you cant even use swarm which is only a single dot and get the WM bonus..Is that a joke lol?? So now all i can do on mobs is WM combos and voracious...No dots no nothing but slow WM combos..Thats a huge imbalance compared to what other powers can do. Before you make such drastic changes actually test things out against other powers not just assume its going to be OP and nerf it.
Just ran some numbers with Earth. Comes out a little differently than the Electricity numbers. There are multiple possible reasons for this. I think it partially has to do with the recent buff to the Shockwave PI effect. Shockwave is also a tier 3 ability, while there really isn't a tier 3 burst damage ability in Earth. Another confounder is the overall wide variation in crit mag I've seen. Usually, when testing, it's best to go with a stripped down setup for standardization. Can't really do that with WM, as it's all crits. I've just been running with a full might build you might see on live. I think, optimally, averaging 20+ runs would provide more solid, generalizable data, but even 10 runs takes a lot of time. Not sure I have that in me, lol! Here are the averages on Pebble Blast after 10 runs: PB = 721 PB with PI (adds a second, smaller tick, rather than an actual damage buff) = 1087 (~50% increase) PB with WM (Hand Clap/Shuriken Storm) Buff = 1237 (~71% increase) PB with PI and WM buff = 1957 (~171% increase) With Haymaker/Homerun = 4045 (~461% increase!) So, not quite as impressive as Electricity's Shockwave, but still very nice. EDIT: Numbers for Localized Tremor with PI and Haymaker/Homerun WM = 3884 or ~434% increase over straight LT (727). That would be a good melee AoE attack.
So I think what we are saying here is that if you are a heavy DoT user, WM doesn't really help much since the DoTs don't receive the increase the way a burst power would? Is that right? I've also been testing this as well, specifically around both DoTs and psuedo DoTs (weapon procs powers for example). I'll report back later
Yes and no. My take on it is that powersets that rely heavily now on DoTs will still be able to run them in the background without direct benefit from WM, though you'll likely use fewer of them, rather than stacking as many as possible. WM will be used to enhance burst damage from other abilities. For instance, the loadout I'm liking for Electricity now is: Overcharge, Tesla Ball, Shockwave, Wired, Voltaic Bolt, Electrocute. EC is the single, long-running DoT that can churn in the background, while you use Wired for the buff and PI setup, Tesla Ball for PI, and WM with Overcharge, Shockwave/VB (depending on the targets and distribution) for burst damage. I think this will help DoT powersets compete better in cases where targets simply die too quickly for stacked DoT setups to really shine.
Arach, If you look above, you can see that Shockwave with the PI and WM buff is actually equivalent DPS to RcW spam from Celestial. Celestial does have DoTs, but most are only 3 ticks or so. It's more burst. WM allows other powersets to operate in a similar way.
the ma tree for WM is bugged. I had 25+sp in that tree 3 different times and it wouldnt let me place an sp in2 the WM box in the corner. I relogged 3 times and tried everytime. Same result. Please fix this. And how come when u guys make changes something else always breaks? Dont ya think after 3yrs+ its time 2 stop that from happening? I understand it may b complicated but there is the thing called double and triple checking and checking all variables 2 make sure something will work correctly. Maybe its about time u guys try that
What the...I have been a sorcery power since I started on my main. I have enjoyed everything about it. I was so happy when you changed the Pets. Styles and DPS abilities were greatly improved. Now with Update 36 you take away the entire reason to use the Pets. Let me explain...now if you have a special pet you do not get the might attack boost at the end of the weapon combo for weapon mastery. Please explain why you have done this. You brought Sorc DPS the ability to actually do DPS with the improved pet but now you take away the reason for using it. I guess I will just change to Nature or Rage like everyone else so I can get the precision buff.
