W.I.P. Combat Balance - Jump Canceling Solutions

if you mention pb suddenly "everything shouldnt be the same" is the tune.

What's your definition of balance? For eveything to be identical to eachother? Not this power and this powerset has a weakness here so we'll strengthen it here?

Why is PB even being brought up in a jump cancel thread? Every good Gadget player knows if you jump cancel it early you don't get the significant damage off the finisher ticks at the end... soo??? The animation time can't be a complaint because its 2 seconds of channeling plus 1 second cool down like a majority of the other finishers... so...

What imbalance? Show me some numbers. Not just on total damage, but each tick, each bonus a finisher gives, power cost, and strengths & weaknesses of a powerset.

It's always the player who doesnt understand anything really who complains. Please show me you understand. Preferably in a PM or even another thread? This way this one isn't "hijacked"

This x5

Exactly. 10000x

And you didnt lose faith when they made paradox and nexus super easy, then made a new raid with better gear that was easier than paradox? One good thing that might come from this is the raids might feel harder if the dps take longer to burn things down ^.^

I don't get the point of these threads anymore. It seems like feedback from people that know what they're talking about is ignored.

Not exactly. Being able to jumpclip cancel and kill stuff doesn't mean someone knows what they're talking about.

The game is systemic in nature. There's a bunch of your friends posting thinking they know what they're talking about but they've got tunnel vision and can't see the larger picture of how everything interacts with the other elements in the game. Their feedback is just about what they want and their own interests, and not what's best for the entire game.

The devs have listened. They'll still do what's best for the game though in the end.

Where was the listening part. Must have missed it becuase all i see is this what we are doing get over it.

I am fine with agreeing to disagree, but it doesn't change my concerns regarding this and other changes mentioned in the W.I.P. section. Why 3 years into the game the devs are STILL trying to balance BASIC game mechanics with yet another approach?

You do realize this is the 3rd time they have done an overhaul to the core mechanics of the game right? It isn't like they are tweaking stuff here, they are literally redoing the game mechanics AGAIN, because they didn't get it right the last two times. At this point I think a little complaining is justified. These sorts of base mechanics should of been completed around the 2nd year of the game, not going into the 4th year.

With the track record we have on changes I really see no reason to have confidence that all of a sudden they are getting it right. Too many changes had extra stuff shoe horned in that caused further issues. I mean just look at the changes done to balance the HP on Two-face and Harley, they are reducing JS and Steel to @ 4900 HP; there are characters that can crit upwards of 2500 with one move--how is that balanced or thought up. (Just one example, trust me when I say I have A LOT more.)

I'm a beta tester myself and have never taken more than a few weeks out of the game--not sure where you've been because there is a lot that the devs have missed on starting with the launch. Here's a few:

1. Speed hacking. For literally 15-18 months of the game this went unchecked on both PC AND PS clients. This is quite honestly the biggest failure of this game as thousands of players left what they felt was a "hacker's game." Many MMO sites to this day have people that still call this game such. Then there was the "hallelujah" moment where they brought the ban hammer down only to find that over 1/2 the population was on a short vacation as warning for using 3rd party programs. Now they finally have it in check to a degree, but the time it took to get there and silence on the matter really was sickening.

2. Fight for the Light DLC was pushed back multiple times and when released it was so buggy they literally gave it away to everyone who was a subscriber at that time.

3. Last Laugh DLC alienated many PVPers and created the first P2W system in PVP. The maps are the most disliked by much of the community and outside of the missives the whole DLC has been whittled away to nothing.

4. Pets in PVP and Home Turf. When HT was on test players were already sick of all the trinket pets and complaining on forums about them in PVP lagging out maps and being more of a pokemon contest that superheroes duking it out. Then the devs have the bright idea to drop more pets into PVP! Added to this they put in several white mods that remove risks of counter while performing finishers, rolling, and even providing more toughness than gear provided at that time. The trinket pets alone trivialized PVE on top of doing counter mechanics in PVP and not being able to obtain immunity for countering one of these pets. The devs ignored player feedback at that time and have since had to make several changes where the pets effectiveness in PVE is a joke and the trinkets aren't available for use in death matches for PVP. Another DLC some feel has been whittled away at as well.

5. Original adjustments to weapon balance--IE adding the charge bars to ranged attacks. This literally was the death of range weapons in PVP. Add to this the soon after increase in damage to melee weapons and there was a huge shift from using variant weapons like Dual Pistols, Rifle, and Bow for PVP to everyone using Dual Wield. Can't forget to add the tap BBers that were just as fast as regular range attacks and front loaded when countering.

6. The second revamp to weapons where now counters occur on damage--IE the "I must be lagging" effect. This change wasn't complete because several weapons have front loaded damage AND they added the jump cancel for interrupt windows to brawling, shield and two-handed.

I could go on, but I'll just stick with those for the moment...

I actually have a pretty amazing memory and most of the complaints about clipping had to do with watching the pretty animations and the like. It isn't a mechanic that cannot be learned without some practice and no, clipping and JCing to clip ARE NOT the same thing. There are only a few powersets that even have to do it to match the damage of top tier sets atm and of those only a few weapons that can pull it off regularly. Most people probably had no idea what a JC cancel was until these threads came up because they don't take the time to understand the mechanics past button mashing.

There is a whole lot more to this and most of it has to do with gear progression and replay badges, so I'll just let it pass on your end as a narrow scope of the matter.

Actually Tunso's post doesn't read like that, if you see it then you're putting your own inflection on his comment. I don't disagree that many aren't able to hold a rational conversation for more than 1-2 sentences, however it was clear that players don't want ANOTHER change to the base mechanics of the game.

I'm glad somebody has access to game polls and statistics, because I was starting to think most of the %'s were made up. In business you don't make changes to affect the SILENT majority. You make them to correct issues that the vocal customers are making. It is a well known fact that if someone takes the time to constructively provide feedback then they care about your product and want you to succeed. Ignoring that feedback is asking to file chapter 11 early.

You're right, it is bigger, but that is the problem. Most of these broad changes have the tendency in this game to impact other areas unexpectedly. Those unexpectedly impacted areas often go over looked even after feedback is given. I am glad you have such high hopes for these changes. I for one am not so optimistic as I've followed the current track record and it doesn't bode well.

That's about as stupid as saying if you didn't contribute to last year's breast cancer fund you're for cancer. It is quite possible to be against something and not for something else. Like I said, I am against these continued BROAD stroke approaches to balance because they haven't worked in the past and have adversely impacted the game creating many of the issues being discussed now. I would rather the devs take a step back from the basic mechanics and fix the bugs. Things like CC issues, break outs, block sticking, etc that make the game unplayable. Then once this stuff is resolved look at something like JC messaging and help create a clearer system. Slowing everyone down isn't the answer to "fixing" this issue. It just masks the problem until something else pops up.

It probably will with animation normalization times.

That's not what I meant though....

Any yet, some people think it is odd the devs took 3 years to address the JC clipping loophole.

Exactly, exactly. This is how I feel when people talk about hard light.

An enemy doe lol. Maybe ppl are against it because they dont want to have purchase r.i.p. Dc t-shirts. An if we are worried about the game succeeding I think fixing all the bugs is a good start. But we are worried about jc because it cant be countered in pvp.

It's about fixing something that wasn't broken- something they encouraged themselves when Rage went out loll. Everything is getting slower that's the direction,for some it's a good one for others not so much a drastic change of Pace like this is offputting to many, can speak only for the people I know and play with but a lot of them has started to look for other games, all lgendary ubscribers supporting the game from the start, can't think of a single person I know in game who likes this.

I guess 1,05 sec time is to stay so no point talking about it anymore. Instead Im curious what will become of channeled abilities that were previously good. I really want to know if these will be changed into clip able with other beneficial powers or not.

Without JC, HardLight is being left with almost no options for clip able ranged combos. Is HardLight going to get new abilities including Prec/CritChance buff ability or we should start saving for RespecTokens?

Their are other ways to balance the powers, without taking or nerfing things that players enjoy. Their will be a lot of people paying for something they didn't want. if they continue to play

Ok I am not 100% sure I am understanding what this is saying. Are they saying there getting rid of JC or fixing it or what? I currently have a Rage dps as my main and there were talking about Offensive moves not being able to clip into each other. Ok but what is offensive? I use Plasma retch, relentless anger, bloodlust, dreadful blast, outrage and beserk my normal rotation for say a boss figh (A&B Hal jordon for example) Would be Plasma retch JC into bloodlust then use DB for a while until my bloodlust went away then repeat. Would this get changed? Or normally when I fight common minions say in waste land I would use Plasma Retch JC in Outrage so would this be changed? Since they said you cant JC into other offensive movies I just want to know what classifies as offensive? Would Plasma retch into Bloodlust which is a buff be offensive? I would like somebody just to give me a better understanding of the JC balance they are talking about please.

you will have a delay, before u jump cancel.. that's wat their doing .. do u like that?