Time to grant us the PVP feat points

People do the same thing with everything, including bounties.

How many people are out there farming shogg or shadow golem?

People grind things out then move on leaving any and all newcomers in the cold, this occurs game wide not just within pvp.

Changing powers might sometimes be something you have to do, simply to get what you want in the same way changing movement modes is done in order to get or transfer race feats, including st patricks day races, even though the progress is negligble.

Alternatively you could make a boosted atomic character or whatever power you want, you could play pvp exclusively on that character and then transfer the feats, that's just another option.

That's the thing and I say this respectfully, a serious player will always just get on with it as and find a way or get something done and sometimes getting it done can take time and effort, then you've got the more causal players who just want to get something with the most minimal amount of effort possible.

The truth is there are solutions out there if one simply puts in the time effort and willingness.

Hear hear.

Now come up with something for the general or new player base. Because, that's where we are at right now. New players or old players that didn't benefit during the time when it was actually playable are walled. You keep saying that, "you will eventually win" doesn't fix the problem that most players just wont even try. Because the experience is the problem. The hardcore players will of course, play, finish, and move on. The feat counters were supposed to be achieved by natural gameplay, same for the PvE feats. (Though, most of those counters are based on the concept of farming it, because there is no way that a player will do 100 bounties naturally before any kind of relevancy window ends.) This is the reason why they condensed the original feats from like 250 to 50. (I think that was the original max...) They were making it more accessible. It is not now, and they choose not to fix it.

I could care less if they remove PvP or make it better, but as it is now, it's not available. It's there, but not being played. It can be done, but no one does.

Your solutions only work for you and maybe a small number. It doesn't work for everyone nor even the majority. (I can safely say, there are a lot of players that wouldn't bother switching movements for the race feats.)

In the end of the day, it's entertainment and if the entertainment pushes you away, it's no longer worthy of money. That is what the devs need to look at and that is why it hasn't been touched. The majority of the players were doing PvE, so they switched focus to PvE. They've messed with PvP a few times usually because of some big changes that happen. It's how we got it to the state it is in now.

Like I said many feats have been given out that I've grinded for and not 1 peep. Yes there are easy to get feats not that were hard, that's just how games evolve. It gets easier for new comers. Not stay a pain in the butt because hard headed 'vets' struggled years before the new people.

I just got the pool feat at last boss of COP, wouldn't shed a tear if they nerfed pool count 30 minutes from now so theres only 2 pools at once. But again that's just the type of person I am and how I was raised. Just because I was raised poor I dont expect the rest of Americans to have to go through the same hardship I did. After all it is a video game, meant for fun.

I think holding up new players, as if their lack of pvp feats is holding them back is actually a bit of a strawman argument, probably not purposefully so, but it is.

The reality is new players or even boosted players for that matter have so many other feats they could be farming and many even easily so that PVP shouldn't even be on their radar unless it's something they enjoy.

I personally believe the bulk of people genuinely looking for free PVP feats are older players who simply lack the desire, skill or willingness to grind something out when they instead feel they can raise a justifiable argument to just get a hand out.

The only reason the 30odd sp from pvp becomes an issue is because those players are at 500 odd sp and they're left staring at feats they can't be bothered with every day they log in.

We keep talking about how it's "walled" but even broken, compared to other elements of the game it's no where near.

Look at time capsules, there's more feats in there, but no ones asking for a rehaul on that stuff to make older TC stuff more reasonable obtainable, where's all the talk about revamping the Quark vendor to more reasonable pricing? We're instead talking about gutting PVP rewards, so players can have some stats for PVE?

The solutions i have proposed actually do work for everyone, how many boosts have we now had? Probably about 5 or 6 maybe more, there's always half price power respecs, those solutions work for any players whose progress is high enough that they would be caring about pvp feats; because the reality is as well there's so many feats elsewhere in the game that ultimately the only people really needing to care about pvp feats are min-max players who ultimately will do what is necessary to get the feats done because that's exactly their mindset, whatever it takes.

I can say the same thing about the concept of "I had to suffer, so should you." Really, the people that have been around have done content and have majority of the feats already, but new players don't. They may queue up for some PvP because they see it's available, but how many of them will queue up a second time? I've had members in my League that are no longer playing because of Counter Mechanics added to NPCs. Though this example is anecdotal at best, it's more to show that the game is a lot broader than your bubble of thoughts and friends. They had to flatten out the ship because entirely new players weren't able to get past the movement mode activation part. Heck, you can just skip the ship altogether now, because they realize that there are elements that turn new players away.

So, using new players as an example of thinking of the whole is NOT a straw man argument. The ultimate goal of any game is to get NEW players and to maintain current players. They seem to be ping ponging back and forth between these two and it's been a weird ride while it happens.

Sure, there are probably a lot of the advocates that are in this category. I have "most" of them and at this point don't care about the 3-5 SP that is left in there. (I think it's 1v1 lairs, skin of your teeth, and maybe a few map count feats.)

On the other hand, I'm totally in that camp if they reward LPvE feats. THOSE ARE SO MUCH NOT WORTH IT! I did miss the bonus week and I'm not sure if I'd actually have played it then. What a joke that was. Last hurrah from Spytle to the player base that ultimately got worse.

Oh please don't bring up something I've been so upset about since the beginning and have argued about them ad nauseam to the point it is just whatever now. They are pretty much exclusive feats at this point in the game. They handled the whole quarks vendor poorly as well. So lets not bring something in that I might end up getting banned for. Thanks.

No, no they don't. They don't because they are not you. That's your view and how you play. The game has more than one way to do the same goal, but it's funny how people try to force some of the worst possible ways to do it. Not saying yours is the worst way, but I'm saying it doesn't work for the majority. Going back to the ship example I mentioned above.

The 4v4/ 8v8 feats literally can’t be done unless you boost. There’s simply not enough people playing those maps for those feats to be completed. We’ll need a bonus counter weekend if we want to see those feats completed

It's not about suffering, it's about doing the task required to obtain the reward, there's already copious leg ups for new players we don't have to just start giving everything away, especially when it is not necessary in order for those players to progress.

In terms of mechanics I was in a similar boat, I never did pvp early on and I raged learning the mechanics, but you either learn them and get better at the game or you quit, it is unfortunate when people quit, but that doesn't mean you water the game down to accommodate players who don't want to learn how to play...

The reason using New players is a strawman is because it's just an emotive ploy to build sentiment to further your argument, people will go oh the new players need help, but truthfully and this was my point, this is nothing to do with new players, rather everything to do with veterans who don't want to pvp.

Helping new players is certainly a valid topic, not using helping new players to further the argument they need free pvp feats to make them better is purely nonsensical, because they simply don't need them.

In fact arguably no one does given the negligible returns you get on 30sp once you're up around 400-500.

The desire to get the pvp feats is far more self motivated than helping others, it's more about pure self progression through minimal or if even possible, no effort at all.

In the same vein they shouldn't reward lpve feats and thus far they haven't, and thanks for raising the prospect of a bonus week, you could do the same in pvp even, every win counts as 5, even that diminishes the feat, but at least people would then be actually playing and I'd be more willing to accept that as a compromise.

In terms of time capsules, I appreciate you don't want to talk about it and everyone here knows I've railed against them since inception also, but the point remains valid, there's more feats in there than PVP and they're equally if not moreso walled and exclusive.

The last part isn't about my view or way of playing, there isn't multiple ways to get counter feats or even feats sometimes, there's the way as per the feat description and you either do or don't do it.

You can choose to do what you must to get the feat no matter what it takes or you can choose to not bother about it, but you can't have your cake and eat it too... there's no easy path

Yes the game is entertainment, but it's also a game and you have to play it otherwise it's not even a game let alone entertainment

You are fine to feel the way you do...dont' push it on anyone else. I'm fine to suggest against giving out the feats in the same manner. I think in the long run it's bad for the game, and (whether you agree or not) it DOES depreciate the work people already put in to some extent. We can agree to disagree... Guess what, it probably doesn't amount to much for the devs either way and they will do what they are going to do whether you want it or I don't want it.

And if having to struggle to get a feat is your worst hardship in life...congratulations...you won life.

This is your view and doesn't represent an entire population of players. We would never be able to find out what the devs know when it comes to this point. There are no statistics that get provided, but you don't know what is useful for progression and what isn't. Right now, you get about 70ish skillpoints from the CR skip. Which is not even a bare minimum for the CR level you are supposed to be at if you go by what the devs said as the 1:1 ratio. We have players on these forums that complain about the skipped players all the time, because they don't have this or that quality. So having more starting skill points is definitely of help to the game as a whole. But I think we are starting to veer away from the actual topic here.

Congratulations! You did it! What time period did you do it? Belle Reve time? All gear same stats and clamping? Movement debufs? RPS? Counter immunity? They were all different experiences. And all gave a different feel to it. As it is right now, I can't imagine anyone would want to go back in if they get steamrolled by the broken aspects in the game from exploiting a power type or role. Which is the reason no one really plays now.

Okay. So you are lumping an entire population that would help support the game as the same as a Karen saying "think about the children"?

And I don't doubt there are people who do use that cover for personal gain. Heck, I'm not getting into it, but there was PvP related issues that happened because of this.

The fact of the matter, are the new players PvPing? If they are, why is it staying in such a state? The answer to both, because they aren't. Thus there is no revenue for the game to actually fix it.

You keep wording it as if it's meant as a handout to someone not in need for a free ride? This kind of wording is the same argument of the straw man you pointed out. It's to incite emotions by the people from your side to promote your agenda. Which, in honesty, just sound like "I had to suffer, so should everyone else."

Of course! But you are using a small portion of the game. How many players are in this game. How many people can you say are in the top percentile of SP and wouldn't benefit of having more? I really wish Sore's census site was still up, I used to query these questions. There isn't a website like that and unfortunately there hasn't been a player that stepped up to try and emulate this version.

Again, this is your point of view and doesn't represent the whole. You think it's something that is easy to obtain, I argue it isn't. My and your personal views aside, how easy would it be to setup a PvP group to farm even win shares? (Which really is the same as handing the feats out and really the feat here is to get 16 players to sync queues while they pound on the losing side.) Nigh impossible, then add in Xbox, Switch, and EU sides to the mix. We are looking at a very LARGE number of players that wont do it or can't.

No skin off my back if they never give these out. But, can you say that the 5 counts isn't the same as handing them out like I said about the trade win scenario? It comes down to it, the devs are just handing them out and gave a false sense of actually rewarding you.

At this point, trying to talk about time capsules is like talking to a wall. They make money, that's all that matters. PvP doesn't and that should matter in the terms of this conversation. So why not hand them out or just throw the whole system away? They can move any development from PvP that they may have (which they probably don't) to something that sells.

Sure there is. You can grind them out all at once, grind them in installments, do them once a day, or let them come naturally. Which is how it's intended. But the problem comes with the ability to do them all at once and the mindset of the player base that if you don't do them NOW you will never do them. Which, if you look at the track record of the game's history, is EXACTLY what happens. PvE and PvP alike. So it's the most difficult and exhausting way.

It can be argued a lot of this mentality was nurtured by the addition of replay badges, but that's neither here nor there at this point. The problem is, PvP is broken, players don't play it, there are things that are walled from being able to get.

Unless you pay for it. Look at Artifacts and Augments. I'll leave it there. Since it's pretty much the same category, and if they did reward it, it would probably end up in some paid service.

You do realize the entertainment is the gameplay. When the entertainment isn't played, it's not worth paying for it.

PvP, for the most part, isn't touched because it can be left there, as a festering wound, without hurting the game. One can argue how it ended up there on the development side until we are blue in the face, but the end result is the same. It's broken and not played and unless they address it, it's going to sit there. No matter how many bandaids they put on it, it wont get better.

Sorry ive just snipped your quote because I'm on my phone and it makes it easier if i just respond in general terms without heaps of words in a small window

I think you misunderstood my first point, when I say it isn't necessary in terms of their progress, I'm saying they don't need to do it right now to progress, if in fact ever given my point about negligible returns.

When I say there's plenty else for them to do, I'm talking about numerous numerous DLCs they can start blind queuing for and getting feats, open world grind feats, they could and should be doing this to progress not complaining about the 30sp that eludes them within pvp when statistically they're better of targeting other tasks and then by the time they've done this tasks the feats they're missing from pvp would be statistically insignificant in any case.

I agree the 70odd SP given in a boost aren't enough but they are enough combined with your other base stats to just start smashing early DLCs for feats with great ease i might add, ease that doesn't even require significant skill given the CR you're boosted too.

As one example you could walk into prime battleground and get 3-4 feats without trying, by yourself.

That is why im saying PVP isn't useful to their progression.

In terms of PVP I was probably just making a passing comment that perhaps gave you a mislead impression, when i first started playing, it was very much just pew, pew, pew with very little thought, I then played pvp where it became more abundantly obvious you had to learn, block, lunge, you also learned animations for weapons and what they all looked like, I have played and been through all the pvp changes and stages, I've been playing since 2011.

In terms of farming wins, reduced wins through bonus weeks etc, although still not ideal from a pure earn your feats perspective it generally tends to go down better than a "hand me feats for free, now" approach, hence why I called it a compromised I'd tolerate.

That's because im not sitting here trying to be some unreasonable elitist telling people to "suffer like I did", I'm just not saying, "sure have what I earned through hard work, entirely for free".

The other point I thought I'd address is the part where you talk about natural progression of feats, I'm not sure theres actually an intended path but obviously doing things more naturally certainly makes things easier or at least seem so without burning out.

However, it wasn't really what i meant, when I say there's only one path, there is literally only one path, to do whatever the task is, the duration it takes to do that task isn't actually a change in path it's still the same path, but the speed at which you go down that path differs.

There's three ways being proposed here.

Incentivize people to move faster down the path.
Shorten the path or;
Remove the path entirely.

To be honest, the best compromise from the 3 would be just shorten the path. Cut all the paths down to bare minimum elements, to where the players might try for if it's not as bad. More-so than the 50 counter. We are talking like 5 here for max on everything.

It would be a true compromise, because they aren't handed out as you still have to run the content to earn them. It would be always obtainable by new players, as an event would happen once or twice a year and the downtime would be detrimental. And finally, it would give a small element of learning something to the player and not just go in and pray to win 100 rounds of 1v1 lairs.

But alas, I doubt this would be agreed on in any form on here, because the whole concept of "I had to suffer so should everyone else" mentality that went with grinding.

What if I told you lair battles goes to 1000

I missed a 0. Been a while.

Never said winning a feat was the worse hardship I've dealt with. Nice selective reading you have.

I don’t want anyone to suffer. I don’t agree with giving feats out but I am far far far more strongly against cheating by win trading, so yea if people are resorting to win trading then I’d rather the devs just give away the feats. It’s a really crappy situation in the game when someone can have more skill points than another player simply because they were willing to do something shady to achieve it.

That said, as much as I see what BumblingB is saying, most of it only applies to the minority of PvP feats, 8s feats, maybe 5s & 4s. Styles feats? Well you can already get most of it through prom boxes and if you want to rest, 1s still pops, and there is no atomic in legends so suck it up. So many of the PvP feats are doable in its current state in 1s & 2s without ever having to encounter the more ‘broken’ aspects of PvP which I feel has been overstated, it’s not as broken as this thread makes out. For example most people don’t know how to properly utilise the Two-Face bug in legends, and a player who does know how to use it can just as easily beat a new player on pure skill without having to resort to hax abilities.

The idea that it’s broken abilities that push away new players I think is completely false. It’s about population, the type of player still playing PvP is likely extremely skilled, so a new player is likely to only ever play against players who know this game inside out and wipe the floor with them. There isn’t enough new players queuing for that new player to play another inexperienced player.

It’s almost exactly like PvE and old content. Imagine new players to PvE could only play the latest content, and on top of that, they weren’t even boosted like you are in event content. That’s what’s going on in PvP right now. Going back to the PvE example, do you think mr new player is quitting because a particular boss is broken? Or is it more likely that they quit because of the insurmountable gap between there stats and the content they are entering.

I full agree with Proxy, the vast majority are too lazy. New players do not know PvP is broken and I have noticed a significant number of PvP thread (ones not asking when it will be fixed) come from new players. There was someone asking where to buy the gear the other day, new player, not complaining about atomic or whatever. Just wanting to know basic information then I assume getting back on the grind like most PvE players are too lazy to do. And worst a lot of it seems to be unnecessary pride, people don’t wanna get beaten up by another player, but you don’t get better by not trying.

The fact is PvE players treat PvP as something they shouldn’t have to do, and that’s why they want the feats for the most part. I’d actually be happy to give the feats away to PvP players who have shown they are willing to grind PvP but due to elements beyond their control, such as 8s not popping and not wanting to resort to cheating, they can’t complete their feats, in this vein I would love to be able to sell people the feats as they have shown the willingness to engage with the content.

I read it, I liked it. I may not agree with you, but I understand it.

I think the biggest take away is your observation on a PvE player not wanting to do PvP. It's a true aspect. I still have friends that just didn't feel like they should have to. It's also the reason why the game makes money and quite honestly should decide how the game is shaping.

This is my observation and not in any way intended as an insult. The PvP players that are so adamant about classic PvP are holding up the reason why it was never fixed before. Before the last big breaking update. They think the game should be a certain way and dang anyone who contradicts them. Which results in even infighting. While PvE players can whine and moan for change, but they for the most part agree on the same topic. (Not to be confused with elite vs casual nor reward vs effort concepts that really just affects the forums.)

You've helped with an open mind and positive thoughts on this topic and really that almost always never happens. It's refreshing and does bring to the table some more conversations.

Also, in response to legends being less broken, would you believe I actually preferred arena? I'm more familiar with my character and never liked the whole avatar simulation thing it was. Which is just a tidbit from my perspective. And stats revamp did affect the legends characters to be very clunky with the added dovetails.

You summarized it.

Guess one idea is achieving the feats in scrimmage matches - Just an idea Don't shout at me

Sorry...thought I was making a joke to keep it kind of light. The fact that you can't actually win 'life' (other than the board game) was the clue.

Sorry also forgot the first rule of forum fight club is "no joking once in BATTLE MODE!", of course the 2nd rule of forum fight club is no talking about forum fight club, just like regular fight club.

Theres no fight mode active here, I simply feel differently about how a game ages and should treat it's new comers when catching up to it's nearly 10 year players in both SP and CR. Which CR isn't a issue anymore as you can level up in a day or 2 to end game. But feats are just as annoying as when I originally ran them and it makes no sense.

All aspects should become easier to help up and coming players, as I said before stay and feel like they're actually contributing to the team their on vs the feeling always being weak and being carried.