Time to grant us the PVP feat points

Given how better PVP balance was at the start I certainly don't consider it was a "tack on", whether they'll fix it who knows. They obviously say it's not a point of priority and why would it be when you're more worried about time capsules, artifacts and appeasing the PVE populations endless and insatiable requests for fresh content every 3 months, if not even sooner if they had their way.

Personally I think they should release a late DLC and spend a few months fixing PVP, but that's just me.

No problem, take the 30SP from the old PVE DLC content, you're wanting the SP to help you in PVE content right, why not water down and diminish the PVE feats instead?

That was sarcasm really, lol, the point I'm making is they shouldn't really diminish the value of any feats, people should earn the feats, it's bad enough they sell them in the booster in the first place.

Because they aren't fixing it, making it fun, and making it where people WANT to play it. It's just another system in the game no one wants to do and the ones that do, don't play it, or at least they say so on the many PvP threads. That they will come back when it's fixed... so a catch 22 then? Needs popularity to make fixes, but to make fixes needs popularity.

THIS IS THE WRONG WAY OF THINKING!

But of course, as you say below, you have your way of thinking and no sense in arguing with you.

Okay.

Unpopular opinion; BUT. If the devs can't offer any concrete plans to make PVP relevant and playable etc and commit to supporting it for the remaining lifespan of the game, then they should make its content available in other parts of the game (like styles etc -- some of which they started doing already--sorry haters) and grant those feats / SPs to players somehow.

They could and should add them (at least) in the character advances. This would give extra value to advances that are already (usually) monetized. Any new or old player using advances gets a bit more out of them. Vet players using them on catching up alts can also then replay them onto their mains.

Asking players to play the content to earn it isn't constructive. PVP is broken and unsupported -- we all know this. It's not controversial to say it. They won't play for this content or they would have already and subjecting them to PVP to earn them isn't a clever way to drive engagement. You're just forcing players to jump through hoops at that point and they'll likely be resentful for it and have a bad experience, because of the state of PVP, anyhow. And if that happens, it's a bad impression of the game that could risk turning players off of the whole game.

So, yes. +1 OP.

firstly I guess, fun is subjective, everyone knows PVP is imbalanced, not everyone finds it lacks fun, I'm sure it does at times, but that's highly subjective.

Also them not fixing something isn't an excuse to just start handing out rewards because of "oh well they can't be bothered, I therefore can't be bothered".

Ask yourself honestly, if I were to come on here and suggest handing out elite feats because I subjectively don't find elite fun would it be valid or would the elite community rightfully so, scratch my face out? But it's supposed to be different for PVP?

What if I said I hated survival mode, but I don't find it fun, it's always buggy, there's always exploits, why not just let me buy all the rewards, would that go down well?

I am one of those players who in those "beautiful" old days was in the PVP league, who played in PVE only because there were SP "necessary" for PVP. I hope you remember how easy it was then to get all these achievements. And then, already at the new ACC (without the opportunity to buy all these achievements for RB), when PVP slipped to the current stage, I tried to farm ... already cut achievements... and if you want to honestly get all these achievements, you need to invest much more effort than in the old days ... and if you do not deceive yourself and others, you know it perfectly well ...
What is the essence of my post? I just want to understand if there is anything more than double standards in all this categorical big "NO".

Yes, I think they should take some from old pve stuff as well. Pretty sure they did? I used a skip last year for an alt. It had 2 feats I didn't already have. I didn't care in the slightest. Its 10yrs old. We need to move on. In that 10yrs, we've thrown out gear that took us weeks to get/ grind for. So yeah, I'm ok with a new player sticking around because they got some extra sp. Especially if it means they aren't a burden on my playtime having to carry thru whatever. Pvp has been deserted. It isn't coming back. It isn't changing. It isn't the least bit relevant after 5yrs of neglect. So give them 30 from there, give them the 5k counter feat in cc. Give them some style feats. Give them some old seasonal feats. Not worth being upset over. We all like to carry our badges of honor but not one single other person cares that "you" have that feat. I get the "no handouts" mindset, I really do. And i hate that I'm supporting any of it but the old timers need to realize without fresh blood/ money, we all lose.
We have posts about giving sp away and it's all arguments. We have posts about skippers and it's all arguments. We have posts about making renown easier to get and it's all arguments. Wanna end it all? Ditch sp. Wanna end some? Give out more sp with skips and take it from the deadest parts of the game.

It's starting to feel like I'm here to just argue with Proxy.. lol I swear I'm not and I don't hate you or anything!
Counter points:
Them not fixing something is exactly why they should be giving out anything in pvp. Say the new alert was still near unplayable, they should 100% give out every feat associated with it along with coins and a cache of other rewards. Because they screwed up and didn't fix it. I'm paying for a game and either it works or you owe me. Pvp is at that point. You order a meal at a restaurant and you get it but the fren fries are burned to a crisp. They give you new fries. Not hard. They don't take the whole meal away. You don't go in and make your own fries. You don't eat the burned crap. This isn't any different really.
If you, anyone obviously, came in and asked for elite feats: think someone did last week. But yeah, pve isn't broken. If there was a counter feat or some things they can give away, then again yeah whatever if it helps everyone.
Survival mode: got nothing lol. I'd buy stuff too haha. But I guess to continue playing devils advocate, anything that was available should be made available another way if you can't do it any other way

Double standard? I'm for giving away NO feats...heck, take away the CR skips completely if you want. Sell no feats in TCs, don't sell source or seasonal currency...fine by me, put the old counts back into the PVP feats if you want so it's like day 1 when PvP was 1/2 of the entire game. However, that's not what we have. We have CR skips that give some feats...we have TCs that in essence sell feats for cash...we can buy Source which can be used to buy other feats. I can't do much about that. Heck I can't do much for any PvP feat giveaway idea except voice my opinion and offer a possible compromise (such as giving some of the more BS feats to boost the SP in the skip...which wasn't the subject originally, but it's one of the arguments for giving them away), but if that comes off like a compromise, sorry....I'll be more one sided in the future and offer no middle ground. The only things that should be 'given' away are things are 100% removed from the game like the original V-Day event feats and the crafting system feats. THOSE are actually impossible to get....PVP is not impossible...just difficult or time consuming.

The point is that as dead as PvP is, there are proven methods for getting the feats done in a timely fashion...arguable with less work than the 100 bounty runs we are currently doing in Wonderverse, yet no one is clamoring for them to give those away....yet.

I'm against giving any of it away. More against 'selling' it. We've proven that almost anything they put in game for a price...we will buy if there is a feat attached, which is a bad precedent. So yeah, giving more SP in the skips or as an individual package I'm against...no double standard here.

I'll bite.

Sure! If it's basically abandoned development. No one plays it. And there is progression behind it. Yes, they should reward the feats.

Oh wait, those that you listed ARE still being developed. DO have people that play it. AND progression can still be achieved because of its availability.

Remember Valentine's Day feats? They had it completely unavailable for 3 years, and they gave them out the year before they released a revamp to this event. That's a precedent on this context here. They acknowledged that it was completely unavailable and was broken. They rewarded the feats and STILL revamped it to release later. Where was the negative about this? Were you upset that they did this? Were you advocating that we should have the original event available and farm the worst event ever designed in the game's history? No, you said thank you, and moved forward. This isn't any different.

You don't need to worry, I'm not offended we disagree or that you're debating the point with me Haha, I'm not one of those people that get all upset because of differences in opinion

I appreciate too your consistency in that at least your position floats across both pve and pvp that part of your argument i at least respect

Actually there's a difference between not available and just "I don't want to do something for x reason"

I'd equally have preferred they modified the valentine's feats into the new event also.

Now to make my position perhaps a little clearer, I'm not intending to sit here all elitist going, "noobs need to earn feats" I understand that the game needs new blood, but at the same time, taking what others have earned and just handing it out isn't the only way to attract new players nor is it necessarily helpful in their development.

The other issue here is that numerous, numerous people don't even want to put in any effort at all, they'd rather just complain it's too hard and ask to just be given it.

It's funny they're quite prepared to grind 400 bounties but when it comes to grinding 100 ring wars, it's a big fat "hell no".

There's a lot of pvp feats that can be simply ground out win or loss but people don't want to bother...

We're talking about fun... playing ring wars isn't fun, but killing murk 100 times is? Grinding out 1800 marks for generator mods for 20 extra health is? Beating 250 bottle duos is? Killing 5000 paradox reapers is? Killing 500 Central city bounties is? Spending marks buying artifacts we'll never level just for a feat is?

With respect, lots of grindy feats in this game aren't fun, but we do them anyway.

I've never gotten that argument, they gave away idk how many feats I've farmed for, not 1x have I *****ed about it. Why? Because just cause I did it the hard way doesnt mean 10 years later someone else should have to do it too. I'm all for getting people caught up to people who have been here for 10 freaking years. While some around are still stuck in the 'I did it the hard way, so do all of YOU' mindset.

Some of yall need to look past yourself for once and think of the game and try to better the game and what will KEEP players long term vs scaring them off or pushing them away.

They can be caught up plenty without giving out the top level feats. The fact is that many people put a LOT of time (and sometimes money) to get feats, so they are a gauge of something...effort? Stupidity? Boredom? Not sure exactly....but something. It would be nice to have that count for something months or years later. No one is saying you can't be perfectly fine with it...go ahead. Some just don't like the idea. Not sure how giving everything away makes the game better either, and selling it is bad for everyone..it encourages DI to put MORE stuff for sale...meaning creating more stuff to SELL. Most of the long time players and hardcore players I know grind...not saying that's fun, but it's part of the challenge. So let's just have everyone get all styles, sp, feats, titles for free on day 1....yeah...that sounds like fun. Think I'll go watch a youtube video of someone playing....same difference at that point and I can fast forward through the boring parts.

BTW...You talk about doing things the hard way vs the easy way and not....complaining. How many feats were a struggle for us 10 years ago and now just take the littlest of effort? Things like the CC bounties were a group effort...every day....for 60 days give or take. Now it's a few minutes solo mission. Things like EO or the no death feat in Dox are pretty much no brainers now but were extremely difficult. There are plenty of 'easy' things that were 'difficult' years ago...some just want them ALL to be easy now. Leave some in the hard category and go work on the other easy ones....there are plenty.

You are right, it is available, but it's a huge wall that is there. But the precedent is still there and they can grant the rewards and fix it at their leisure. Right now, the community is at odds, probably due to how volatile the topic is. As it stands, it's not available by most if not all new players. Which by your admission, is something to think about.

As for the earned part, that ship has sailed a long time ago when they first introduced a character CR skip. There were a lot of feats that were quite literally earned right before it was granted free to all players who got the skip. It's like a movie that's been out for years, you shouldn't worry about spoilers by then. (Bruce Willis is the g...)

Oh no doubt and I don't think your examples ARE. I still don't have the feats done. It's hard to want to spend 30 minutes to only get one each. I'm in the 60 range. Which means I've spent 30 hours for these guys. Time I'll never get back. lol

There are a significant number of feats in this game that are not fun and absolutely do not want to do again EVER. I've been doing feat hunting on my switch and I see quite a few that will be a hard pass for me. Heck, I was close to not wanting to do the BoP solo one, because waiting that long for something is such a silly feat.

I think feats should be just that, a feat. Not how long you spent in the game, but something you did to get it. A milestone is one thing, just having a counter is a completely different thing altogether, but that's for another thread that we will "banter back and forth" on.

I guess the point Im expressimg is that wall is somewhat mental as well, people are too quick to jump on the give it to me for free bandwagon because it's convenient, hell who wouldn't take free feats, it doesn't make it right though ,on that point we philosophically differ.

I don't mind grindy feats by the way they serve a purpose to give people a side grind after content gets completed, they're certainly rarely fun, but they're about all this game has outside of ita business excessive and equally shallow vertical gear progression model, but that's also another topic Haha.

As a side note though and perhaps something worth putting in this mix, people will spend money changing movement modes and powers for a few points, they could always change atomic, get their pvp feats done and switch back, if they were truly serious about it?

That would only work if the player only PvP, because what happens when the player wants to do what they used too and was healer or troll? Thumps up for pointing out what we all did to get those race feats, but yeah not on the same scale and would be detrimental to the player.

On a positive note, it would even the playing field for pvp if everyone was atomic. LoL

Do it during a DLC lull and you can always continue to DPS until you switch back, healer powers are also pretty good in pvp so it's only really the controller powers that are suffering, although mental...

See there are options if you're prepared to be a bit flexible and hop outside your comfort zone a little too get it done.

Good idea. Mepps has continued to reiterate that touching PvP is not in the works.

Granting all the feats and calling it a day is literally the only solution at this point. +1

Hah! Nice try. I don't think your reasoning is sound, but good try on trying to prove me wrong. This game is entertainment purposes, if it's not entertaining, why play it? Pushing away the player base to force what you think is how they should do it doesn't result in a good experience. We've seen it in the past with a lot of elements that pushed players away. Mepps even acknowledged ups and downs with the game.

All these little work arounds doesn't spark the mass amount of players required for what you are advocating for. You might get 1 or 2, but not hundreds. PvP is no where near enjoyable for the players to want to play it. Giving them new incentives doesn't sustain anything and it's back to how it was before it. How long was it before Belle Reve died down? Within days of its launch. Players got their feats and moved back to doing what actually works and they enjoy.