Supercharge Testing Analysis/Suggestions

In response to Test SC Changes found here: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dcuo/index.php?threads/damage-supercharge-balance.314267/





BLUF:

- The version of SC on Test Server is an embarassment of a pre-alpha grade debacle that shouldn't have made it this far and which will skull**** the overall SC system into a coma, making anything that isn't a 10k or certain buffs completely pointless.
- It looks like whoever made the test changes either half-***** it or gave up have half way because "fixes" that were applied to certain SCs were ignored on other SCs of the same type. It fails to properly account for the most basic tenets of DPS and, essentially, is an arbitrary mess overall from its foundational elements up.
- Following this full analysis there is a comprehensive list of changes that would actually, meaningfully balance the SC system.

Full Qualitative & Quantitative Analysis
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PHkqTN798u9a9iLH-d5u43EUHg4pKdJrnq8z7gyuTLQ/edit#gid=0

Evaluation of test SCs is in the first tab, suggestions (along with their respective change modifiers applied and with columns hidden to make it easier to see the resulting DMG and DMG:SC) are in the 3rd tab

Known Issue: I built it so that substitution losses could be toggled on/off when making adjustments but I believe I'm the only one who can actually toggle it without publicly granting edit permissions, which I'm not going to do as it would compromise integrity. Leaving substitution losses toggled on (since long-cast SCs have to have them factored from the get-go anyways) but if similar powers appear to have a slight DMG:SC difference, the base damage is comparable. This is generally the case of comparing pure ST substitutions to substitutions on the splashier powers.

Of note:
- It is forward and backward compatible and all values are slaved, to the greatest extent possible, to the game's damage equations and the current meta, with values being adjustable to immediately see the impact of any/all changes without having to spend hours/days/weeks parsing. It is effectively a full mathematical definition of the SC meta.
- Base DMG min:max brackets for each direct-damage SC were obtained via parse until the boundary limits were probabilistically exhausted to within a reasonable margin of error (ie. I'd parse until it'd take forever to see new min or max base damage values that could expand an attacks' spread).
- The performance of buff SCs is determined mathematically using the Total Damage equation combined with current meta BiS Might rotations as per the Might Master Guide and its Meta/Balance Overview Spreadsheet.
- Values are normalized for the CR at which I parsed the DMG brackets but can be adjusted for any CR. Changes to the Q tab parameters will affect all of the values in the Analysis, allowing us to tweak based on meta or to quickly/easily simulate the effect of group buffs and consumables on the SC meta.
- All SCs that are either unclippable, long-cast/channeled, or have other mitigating factors have their damage adjusted to compensate for the loss of standard rotation DPS for the relevant time period affected. This is noted in every such case. All other substitution losses are considered to be intrinsic to the SC system but will be considered as a hidden liability to 2500 and 5000 SCs.
- The math is triple redundant, with the ST/3/8 values allowing for a three-way sanity check to identify errors.
- The math for all AoE rotations for buff SC is done with Trans+Strat while the math for some ST rotations is w Standard crit rules. This is due to, at high SP, Lernaea's Amulet performance still being maximized with Tetra as opposed to Trans (but with Trans if another player is using Tetra). Non-Amulet ST rotations still use Trans + Strat and Amulet was not considered for AoE builds (but the parameters can be adjusted to simulate this). That said, the noteworthy impact of this difference is that it results in the ST:AoE DMG:SC ratio difference being slightly different than in Trans:Trans cases.

Method of Quantitative Analysis

Due to the sheer number, variety, and complexity of SC's, the only meaningful way to evaluate them against one another is to assess their DMG:SC ratio. This is achieved here by parsing/mathing the hell out of everything, breaking it all down into its constituent parts (ie. determining the Base Damage min:max of each individual hit-type of each SC then feeding it through the game's damage equation) or, in the case of buffs, just mathing the hell out of them.

Once the DMG:SC is determined, it paints a clear performance picture. To make it clearer though, it helps to use Neo Venom Boost as a (mostly) standardized comparative element (more on this in a moment in the Assessing Vulnerability section). This also helps frame SC values in more practical terms a la:

- Is this better or worse than Neo Venom Boost and by how much?
- Would a good DPS use this over Neo Venom Boost? (this also helps give better perspective to qualitative issues, like vulnerability to damage loss)

DMG:SC, % of NVB performance, and how many seconds worth of NVB needs to be lost before a given SC breaks even are all at the far right of the spreadsheet for the following SC usage scenarios:
1. SC Refund Head Mod - Most common scenario. In multi-SC situations only a single mod is factored (obviously);
2. SC Refund Head Mod + Tac Swapped Scrap of the Soul Cloak - Best but least common and requires the most skill/practice); and
3. Neither mod nor Scrap - Assumes use of 2% crit mod instead, with values adjusted to reflect that. However, most rotations can't do this without sacrificing either Robot Sidekick or a SC slot and it's generally not ideal, with the exception of Primal Wolf Form's 2% crit mod since there are no strings attached with it.

Qualitative Analysis: Assessing Vulnerability

In no particular order, these are the dominant factors affecting how attractive/unattractive an SC is beyond its sheer damage potential. These are all noted on the spreadsheet where applicable.

Note: This is all based on elite mechanics.


Buffs - High Probability of Minor to Moderate Damage Loss

Buff SCs have two main detractors:

1. Because they're dependent on rotation DPS, buff SCs are very unlikely to lose all of their damage ever but they're extremely likely to frequently lose some of their damage due to raid mechanics, interrupts, in-game physics effects, and enemy movement & range considerations. This is why it's helpful to look at how many seconds worth of a NVB each SC is, as it lets DPS think " what's the probability I lose this much time off my buff SC frequently enough that this alternative could be considered viable, or at least situational?"

2. They're some of the the longest-duration SCs. This presents three sub-problems:

i. The longer the duration, the greater the probability some damage will be lost to the previously mentioned factors;

ii. The longer the duration, the more likely it is that trash mobs will de dead well before the player reaps the full rewards of the buff SC, limiting the usefulness of many buff SCs in AoE situations unless the player times carefully; and

iii. An important part of high-end DPSing in this game is knowing how to appropriately stack self-buffs in order to min:max the multiplicative value of the game's crit system. If a buff's duration is too long, it becomes impossible to take full advantage of stacking Supply Drop, Combat Trinket, and Bottled City Soder. Eg. Neo Venom Boost only gets about half the benefit of those buffs as instacast SCs and shorter buffs do (but can achieve the full benefit of Supply Drop if tac swapping Philosopher's Stone).

Suggestion: Because of the above factors, all buff-type SCs should be consistently amongst SCs with the highest DMG: SC ratios with other SCs balanced within a margin of error around them on either side based on their own respective potentials for damage loss. The fact that the performance of a buff SC depends on the skill/performance of the player in general further justifies this.

Projectiles - High Probability of Extreme Damage Loss + Moderate Risk of KO

There are only two projectile SCs in the game (basically reskins of one another) and they have the following major detractors:

- They follow og projectile rules, meaning each individual projectile must connect with a target in order for its damage to count. They also spray their projectiles at a wide angle, resulting in hefty damage falloff when beyond melee range. For example, best case max range performance is 27.2% efficiency.
- They attempt to track the target using the exact same tracking logic as Trigon's/Cosmic Boy's ball attacks and are equally derpy. Target got knocked into the air a tiny bit while casting or falls after a knockdown/cc? Projectiles fired off into the sky or into the dirt. Target moving one direction then stops/changes direction or is pulled? Projectiles go wide.
- They can be completely dodged once fired.
- Because of the previous two issues, the player really has to lunge in to use projectile SCs. This can be dangerous in many boss fights.
- Poor penetration. Though technically AoE, the blast radius is fairly small and it is relatively common for the projectiles to deal purely ST damage in an AoE situation if one target steps slightly outward away from the others for a moment. This reduces the effectiveness of that cast relative to its potential by 50%, assuming all the shots still hit.
- Even if LoS isn't broken and other attacks are connecting, certain models/geometry are capable of absorbing all of the projectiles. The most recent example of this is the tentacles in CoUe.
- The projectiles count as an active attack all the way until they hit something. This means that reflect mechanics like Grail's bracer's or Reflector type enemies can become active after a player has activated the SC but they will retroactively die to reflect
- Because of all these issues, effectively using projectile SCs means standing much closer to the action than we normally would.

Suggestion: Despite these massive shortcomings, projectile SCs take skill and are fun to use as long as their damage is sufficient to compensate for the frequent losses. Alternatively, the other way to balance them would be to transition them to new-school projectile rules where they have a larger AoE blast zone and if even one projectile connects, the player gets credit for the full nut's worth. My preference is that they be balanced as high-risk, high-reward attacks as they traditionally have been, as it's more interesting, diverse, feels better, and is more engaging when trying to use them correctly.


Channeling - High Probability of Moderate to Extreme Damage Loss

There are three major detractors for the channeling SCs:

Note: These also apply to quasi-channeling.

1. They generally root the player in place. This means that if the player needs to react to a mechanic, they have to jump/block cancel and sacrifice the remainder of their damage. This also makes the player vulnerable to physics and nudge effects, which will cancel the channel even if only moving the player by a pixel (or seemingly not at all).
2. They replace the normal rotation for the duration. These means that in order to be balanced, they have to hit as hard of the rotation normally would and as hard as an SC normally would and be scaled to compensate for their extreme vulnerability.
3. Empowered Channeling does not protect against the "Grounded" effect, which will instantly deactivate any channel even if the player is standing on the ground in place. This can be mitigated by manually activating/deactivating movement mode around the cast but it's a painful QoL issue for channeling. Similarly, Empowered Channeling does not protect against the majority of special boss CCs. In general, channeled powers get deactivated constantly. In elite, a channeled SC will leak supercharge like a sieve right now.

Unlike with projectile SCs, skill cannot mitigate these factors to any meaningful degree. No matter how skilled/knowledgeable the player, their channels will frequently eat **** and putting shielding or cc immunity on them won't help because the problematic effects that deactivate channels ignore those things completely. Unlike a buff SC where you can get interrupted for a second and get back into rotation to recover some of the DMG:SC ratio, all the ticks that get lost are simply wasted SC.

Suggestion: Allow movement during all SC channels and quasi-channels. On top of that, there are only two ways to effectively balance channel SCs to the point a good DPS will consider using them over alternatives: 1. Give them extreme damage, the highest DMG:SC ratio of all SCs, to compensate for their extreme risk of damage loss; or 2. Mimic the mechanic used by Vindictive, wherein there is an initial cost followed by a per-tick cost in order to allow the SC consumption to be more efficient and hardened against losses. Addressing the issue of certain things simply deactivating channels would also help but I believe that to be a much more complex issue that may not have a solution, whereas both of the other offered solutions keep things interesting in different but balanced ways.

Damage Fields - Light to Moderate Probability of Moderate to Extreme Damage Loss

Most damage fields suffer from a limited area of effect that frankly feels like complete *** and not at all "super." Many of them have CC components to them, but these don't help prevent the issue of enemies simply being able to leaving the damage field before damage is dealt due to it not being reasonably possible for a good DPS to be anywhere near the dominance cap required for the CCs to work. This generally makes them fairly high-risk in hallway AoE situations especially, as enemies are prone to dying before all the ticks are dealt and tanks might move the targets out of range. There are many boss fights where the boss jumps/teleports around the map, which can completely negate the SC based entirely on RNG. Some damage fields are also of such a duration that they only receive 2/3 of the benefit from Supply/Trinket/Soder stacking.

Note: Extreme damage loss is most likely to occur in fights against highly mobile bosses, which are fairly common. As such, there are many situations in which damage fields are a terrible choice right now.

Suggestion: Either make every damage field the same size as Cursed Idol (and ideally increase the size of the animation as well to make them feel more "super") or convert them to either t/pbAoE DoTs or DoT-Application Fields (ie anything that enters the field gets a DoT that stays on it even if it leaves the field). Inferno worked like that (DoT-Application Field) for a while and it was balanced and usable. Despite not being as vulnerable as some of the other SC types we've looked at so far, damage fields in this game are just the absolute worst, most frustrating, most unfun DPS option. They're specced like they're a guaranteed hit we have complete control over when in actuality the damage is dependent on our positioning, the tank, and AI RNG in every situation. This is also why the best DPS rotations avoid the use of damage fields unless absolutely necessary.


DoTs - Light to Moderate Risk of Moderate AoE Damage Loss

Note: This is exclusively referring to long-form DoTs with a duration of 5-6 or greater.

Though sometimes reliable against bosses, DoT SCs are inefficient in most AoE situations due to the adds not being able to survive for the full duration with all of the other DPS they're eating from the group on top of the SC. Long DoTs also fail to take full advantage of Supply/Trinket/Soder stacking. The longer the DoT, the more pronounced these issues.

Suggestion: Reduce DoT durations and increase tick-rate. 5-6s is reasonable but longer DoTs are less effective and feel terrible to use.


Pets - Guaranteed to Underperform Relative to comparable Non-Pet Alternatives

Pets can't crit and receive no benefit from group buffs, consumables, augs/mods, etc. They are static, CR-based damage. They can also be killed and can block players paths, creating a danger in fights are trying to avoid obstacles.

Suggestion: In order for pet SCs to compete with non-pet SCs, their performance on paper needs to be notably higher than the best non-pet alternatives.


Cost:Cooldown - Potential to Waste SC

A 5000SC with a 30s CD or a 10000SC with a 60s CD is reasonable, but anything with a worse ratio will cause SC problems when supported by green EoG. Eg. Neo Venom Boost alone cannot be used fast enough to spend all of the SC coming in at 45s CD. A 5000SC with a 60s CD will waste considerable SC with or without a green spammer present. Being unable to spend SC feels bad.

Suggestion: Adjust cooldowns to ensure that, with the exception of Neo Venom Boost, the longest 5000SC CD is 30s and the longest 10000SC CD is 60s.


Substitution Losses - Applies to All SC Activations

Every time we use any SC, it's taking the place of somethingelse in our rotation and we're losing the damage that original power would have done in so doing. This is especially problematic for SCs that can't be clipped by another power/item. This is why the original SC scaling had slightly diminishing returns as SC costs increased. Eg. A 2500SC would be activated twice as often as a 5000SC and four times as often as a 10000SC, so it had a slightly better DMG:SC ratio to compensate for the more frequent substitutions whereas the 10000SC would have a slightly worse DMG:SC ratio but better burst damage and incur substitution losses far less often. This helps to preserve balance without given any SC cost tier an intrinsic advantage.

Suggestion: Reevaluate the goal of having each SC tier be a 250% increase over the previous. That approach neglects substitution losses and gives higher cost SCs a significant intrinsic advantage in some cases. It also places powers without 10k SCs at a disadvantage. Focus instead on preserving the DMG:SC ratio to within such a margin that any given SC, with consideration given to its strengths, weaknesses, and limitations, can be seriously considered by a good DPS.

Individual Power/SC Suggestions

Method

This begins from a point reverting Neo Venom Boost back to 40% (in order to ensure the baseline for the field doesn't decrease so as to simplify assessment and avoid a general DPS nerf to the game) and assessing the output of the three most vulnerable SCs, Bolt Barrage, Fireball Barrage, and Freeze Ray. It then assessed a solid example of one of the least vulnerable, Entomb, and sought to establish a spectrum from there with a general idea of where it wanted the performance per cost to be then adjusting for other factors like probability of damage loss or the presence of (useful/desirable) beneficial effects.

This approached the balance with consideration given to per-power substitution losses while seeking to carefully balance the actual damage totals of similar powers. This was adjusted for the the fact that the few powers that bring the overall ST DPS average of the game down do so because their "ST" is more AoE heavy than most other powers and they're somewhat balanced around doing better in multi-target boss-fight environments than powers with less AoE in their ST rotations. As such, when assessing, we kinda have to toggle the sub loss toggles on/off and be mindful of, if toggled off, a power we're looking at already has innate rotation losses built in due to having a time loss associated with it.

Lastly, my number one priority was trying to balance everything to the point that a good/knowledgable DPS would give careful consideration to everything as to what to use and would have reason to adjust more for different situations. Ie. Tried to tweak everything so I could answer the question, "would I actually use this?" with a "yes." I think these tweaks would make SC min:max a lot more complex once in-content factors come into play, allowing skill and style to be the most important factor while offering a small overall % advantage to skilled risk takers while still leaving newer/weaker players with lots of olive branches. Everyone should win with this.

Recommendations

In addition to balancing the raw values, the adjustments below aim to make things "feel" better in general by reduce the "aw wtf" unfun/bland aspects of certain SC and to give things a bit more QoL and "kick."

Important: All of the modifier values given below are based on the current test values, not the current live values. This means that some adjustments will seem large due to the larger/smaller test values.

Note: Ranges are expressed as percentages of the distance from the target (0%) to the point at which the targeting reticle changes from red to grey (100%). Distances shorter than 30% are generally referred to as "melee" range herein.


Atomic
Atomic Blast
Increase dmg to 1.32 of current test value.

Leaves it with slightly less damage than comparable 5000 cost SCs due to the added value of the low CD


Radiation Burn
Increase initial burst dmg tick to 1.1 of current test value. Reduce DoT to 0.25 of current test value. Increase radius of damage field portion to a distance of 50%.

Results in overall total dmg reduction to ~0.72 of current test value. Vulnerable damage field portion accounts for ~13.8% of the total damage like this but the changes to how the damage is dealt and the increase size will allow it to be deal slightly more damage than comparably priced powers while remaining somewhat vulnerable but retaining a feel-good can't-miss blast at the start.


Celestial
Cursed Idol
Increase overall dmg to 1.08 of current test value. Increase blast radius of bonus proc explosions to ~40-50%. Ensure procs are working correctly.


This will still be in a somewhat and situational place. Effectiveness compared to comparably priced powers still entirely beholded to its bonus procs, so base dmg is specced like a utility SC but with the capacity to do a lot more damage in add-heavy situations. The burst procs are good but the range on them is extremely currently extremely limiting, resulting in sporadic performance in even ideal conditions. The increase in blast radius will help even this SC out, at which point we can assess further.


Life Drain
Increase overall damage to 1.33 of current test value.

Graded on a slight curve due to Celestials overall pitiful SC situation and general lack of competent direct DMG SC options but still kept in line with other powers. The HoT is not considered a valid reason to reduce DPS effectiveness in this case, as it isn't a desired effect and at such low resto, its contributions to survival are negligible.


Earth
Earthquake
Adjust the following to the following factors of current test values:
Opening Burst to 2.03
First Combo to 0.25
Second Combo to 0.5
Initial Full-Combo Burst to 1.5
Pre-DoT Tick no change
Final DoT no change

Starts slightly below average and finishes slightly above average with a risky bridging portion like how most combos work (but with the risk:reward factor jacked up since it's an SC). Greater than potency of 2x 5000SCs but to get the 2nd one, the player has to risk interrupt and the intermediate damage serves as a consolation prize. Good risk:reward structure and the performance justifies the limitation of only being able to activate this at 10k+ SC, as does the fact not all SC is consumed at once. The extreme range of this attack should not be changed as it has perfect flavour for the power.


Entomb
Increase to 1.45 of current value.

Still results in adjusting the current live version down by ~9.3%. Used as a reference point for no-risk 5000-cost SCs. Pretty much the most vanilla SC.


Meteor Shower
Reduce all ticks to 0.99 of current test values.


Electricity
Circuit Breaker
Reduce duration to 20s and increase buff potency to 33%.

Equivelent to an overall performance buff to 1.2 of current test value. Results in slightly more risk of dmg loss than Neo, slightly more reward. Should still have enough value to be worthwhile. Concerned that having 33% more time in which losses can be incurred will be an issue but looks ok on paper as is.


Megavolt
Increase initial burst to 2.575 of current test value and reduce damage field portion of dmg to 0.2 of current test value. Increase radius of damage field to 60%. Make the cast clippable.

Equivalent to an overall dmg increase to ~1.55 of current test value. Comparable to a 5000-cost version of Radiation Burn.


Fire
Fireball Barrage
Increase to a factor of 1.67 of current test value (reverts the change and makes it the same as the live version). Remove the CC resistance aspect.

Gauged on best-case scenario with consideration given to the skill required to use it effectively and the extreme damage falloff if even a single projectile misses. Balanced against comparable powers, ie. Freeze Ray and Bolt Barrage. On live, this is already at pretty much the exact limit where any lower and I wouldn't consider it usable due to its extreme risk of moderate to total damage loss. The cc resistance added to test can be removed, as it won't do anything to improve the attack's reliability as the limfac is spread, tracking, and OG projectile rules. This plays/feels best as an extreme risk:reward SC anyways, as risk the lunge in to feed fireballs into a boss' face feels good when you pull it off despite the gamble and the fact that, on average, this breaks even due to the frequent losses.


Volcanic Calamity
Reduce damage to 0.905 of current test value. Increase damage field radius to 100%. Increase size of visual/animation. Reduce animation dovetail.

Primary issue has always been the frustrating size of the damage field relative to the fact that it's supposed to be a gd volcano such that it was never very effective not very for its intended purpose, mass add clear, because of how much adds move around. It felt terrible to watch a boss lunge out of it, for example, wasting 10k SC with damage that didn't justify the risk. Doubling the size of the AoE will fix the feel while allow it to be justified at slightly less damage than similar powers. It will also bring it closer to the AoE size of Earthquake, which is important... because again it's a gd volcano lol so the flavour will be better. If able, the size of the visual should also be increased (feels pretty piddly to the point most players get it confused with the Lava Eruption Orbital Strike and vice versa).


Gadgets
Asphyxiation Gas
Increase damage to 1.4 of current test value.

Size of damage field should remain the same due to nature of how gas would disperse from its source in an open area. This justifies the attack having slightly higher damage than similar.


Battle Drone
Reduce pet DPS to 0.15 of current test value. Extend duration to 22s and apply a Crit Chance +5% buff to the entire group. Prevent multiple iterations of the group buff being active simultaneously (ie. to prevent exponential crit stacking).

This is pretty much the only approach I can think of that'd make this viable and interesting and I feel this has much better flavour for Gadgets, as the Suppressor Turret already does what this was aiming to do, only better and more flavourfully. This mimics Batman's LPVE battle drone. It is balanced to be overall slightly weaker than Infuriate without the pet damage factored but relatively on par overall. Makes this a good option for a weaker DPS in a group of strong DPS or an excellent DPS in a high-end group, while still being beholden to increased risk of losses due to the slightly longer duration. Tac swap players could have consistent uptime with this, making it a very busy-to-do and Gadgets-esque SC.


Bunker Buster
Increase damage field radius to 60%. Decrease overall damage to 0.98 of current test value.

Similar to Asphyxiation Gas and Volcanic Calamity. Higher damage than Calamity to justify the smaller area. Radius increase meant to improve the feel/flavour of the attack and better suit its function/flavour.


Ice
Blizzard
Increase damage to 1.21 of current test value. Increase size of damage field to 50%. Reduce cooldown to 20s.

Balanced to have slightly less damage than Asphyxiation Gas due to its mod advantage. Size/CD changes will help Ice players to have a more sustained Blizzard effect with a slightly more forgiving area, improving this SC's function and feel.


Deep Freeze
Increase damage to 1.34 of current test value. Increase blast radius to 55%. Remove application of Crush PI.

Balanced to be brought closer to Entomb while slightly increasing range to make it a bit easier to use and to feel better.


Freeze Ray
Reduce to 0.951 of current test value. Allow movement during channel.

Adjusted using existing in-game logic/balance for pure-ST vs AoE capable attacks vs Bolt Barrage.

Set to be high risk, high reward and beefed up slightly for the fact it's 100% ST. However, this is always guaranteed to deal at least some of its damage (first tick is guaranteed and first few ticks are relatively safe), unlike Fireball Barrage/Bolt Barrage which sometimes miss completely. Hardest hitting ST SC but losing even a single tick drags it waaay down, so still balancing it similar to Fire/Bolt Barrage. While this is less likely to lose as much damage as Fire/Bolt Barrage do, it is more likely to lose a portion of damage a bit more often. Similar concept being doled out in different ways so keeping the balance logic the same for extreme projectile vs extreme channel.

An alternative approach would be to make it like Vindictive where it uses additional SC per tick to justify lower overall damage, but I think the risk:reward of this feels better. Will be a boon to weaker DPS and a riskier option for min:maxers.


Ice Elemental
Increase duration to 13s. Change it to use player's current movement mode instead of changing them to Flight.

Equivalent to a buff by a factor of 1.092. The extra second is important to make the form changes more friendly with Might rotations (ie. so it doesn't cut channels off) and the boost is justifiable with the awkwardness of the change and the fact it doesn't buff def while on DPS. If needed, can also remove the CC resistance and boost it slightly more. It's important for feel/flavour that this not change the player's movement mode and especially important for tanking.

Light
Ballistic Assault
Increase damage to 1.825 of current test value. Tag as a channeled power so that it works with Empowered Channeling. Add it to the list of powers protected by Empowered Channeling.

Requires the same love Freeze Ray did for the same reasons. Re-balanced to be harder hitting than standard 5000 costs and on par with Fireball Barrage just as Freeze Ray is on par with Bolt Barrage after being adjusted for pure-ST.


Strafing Run
Increase initial burst damage to 1.2 of current test value and decrease DoT damage to 0.15 of current test value. Increase blast radius to 50%.

Same family as Radiation Burn / Megavolt / Carnivorous Plants and similarly balanced. As with the others, DoT damage is reduced to improve QoL and flavour/feel while keeping it at a point that it's important to justify the SC having slightly higher damage. Radius increase is very important, as the small size of this attack combined with its delay has always been an issue with it that made it feel like butt cheeks. This SC is also further buffed slightly due to the long, 12s DoT.


Mental
Bolt Barrage
Increase damage to 1.241 of current test values. Make clippable. Remove CC immunity.

Same as already discussed for Fireball Barrage and Freeze Ray, this is balanced as a high risk:reward SC and it one of the three hardest SCs to use in the game. QoL and feel will be improved by making it clippable like Fireball Barrage and the CC immunity can be removed as it won't actually help, as that isn't the limfac causing this to be such high risk.


Mass Hysteria
Change to 13% Crit Chance, 13% Crit Damage, and 13% Damage for 13s and increase pet potency to a factor of 1.3 of their current test DPS for that duration.

Should be a bit better than Neo overall but hard to gauge a hybrid buff/pet power like this out of content. The additional pet damage is designed to compensate for the fact they can't benefit from consumables but still doesn't factor that they can't receive group buffs either, so they may need to be beefed up slightly more still. The 13 trend has good flavour for Mental and works out to be interesting. Works out to an overall 1.5 factor buff to current test effectiveness, which I think is justified due to pet limitations and the loss potentials associated with self buffs.


Munitions
Biggun
Increase damage to 1.062 of current test value.

Justifiable due to the fact it's unclippable and has a relatively long cast. The "Finisher" aspect of the power should be removed.


Mounted Turret
Increase damage to 1.305 of its current test value.

Buffed due to losses incurred with being a medium duration channel but not to the levels of Ballistic Assault or Freeze Ray due to its much faster caster and the fact it also improves survivability via its shield. Already has good flavour overall.


Nature
Carnivorous Plants
Increase initial burst damage to 1.6 of current test value and reduce DoT damage to 0.5 of current test value.

Same adjustments and considerations as Strafing Run but applied for a 5000-cost. Slightly better DMG:SC but max performance more depending on the DoTs. Better feel/QoL and good flavour.


Chaotic Growth

SC is life to a Nature DPS, so while the current test values seems quite steep it's likely justified given the risky position this puts Nature in if they lose Poison and can't form change.


Gorilla Form

Current test values seem fair, as the true value is the AoE finisher.


Primal Wolf Form

At first this seemed quite steep to me, but then I asked myself, "would I actually play nature with all the crap I'd have to put up with and the constant risk of having my DPS cut in half due to a bad break getting CC'd/mechanic'd right before I need to refresh Harvest?" and the answer was an emphatic "no!" As such, the potency of this could very well be justified. Tough to say and will have to see how it handles in content. Nature is high risk:reward and has terrible QoL atm so this could help with that.


Rampage
Increase Poison buff to 200%.Increase application window to 5s.

Players never let Poisons run full duration, so while this appeared balanced at a glance it neglected that ST rotations reset every 9-10 seconds and AoE hallway rotations reset on Thurn Burst CD, so it needs to be beefed up to be usable. I still probably wouldn't use it in this case in most situations. Increasing the application window is just good QoL, as 3s is way too short a time to risk 5k SC for on an already very risky powerset for an SC with other strings attached. Equivalent to overall damage potential being increased to 1.2232 of current test value.


Quantum
Oblivion
Reduce animation dovetail.

Despite being clippable, the animation is extremely long and punishing if it goes unclipped much like that of Volcanic Calamity. QoL improvement.


Temporal Vortex
Reduce damage of the first two ticks to 0.75 of current test value and increase damage of final tick to 2.0 of current test value.

Comparable to an overall ~1.55 increase to keep in line with similar powers. Reducing initial damage to increase the burst will improve the feel/flavour of the attack, like "energy building... energy building.... BAM! Time pancake" or w/e. Iunno, I'm not a quantufistician duder... but I know big blammo feel good after lil buildup.


Rage
Berserk
Revert nerf and, if deemed necessary, adjust the range of the reflect aura to 15% instead.

This strikes me as a prreeettty extreme nerf given the risks associated with meleeing on Rage, which essentially no one does in elite. Probably wanna not do this at this time, as you kinda keep kicking Rage while it's down in different ways. A dead DPS is worse than a DPS that isn't dealing any damage, and there's a lot of risk associated with getting Berserk to work in the first place. Adjusting the range will both tone down it's hallway effectiveness and force players to be actually right in the action on bosses as opposed to hanging out a few steps away.


Infuriate
Add protections to prevent exponential buff stacking with multiple Rage DPS.

Seems just about gd perfect on paper. Given that most groups have at least one staggler DPS, this might underperform in practice but it's strong for high level play and nice too in that a weaker rage DPS can contribute more by buffing others. I like it and the flavour suits the Red Lantern Corps. I wish the scorecard could reflect the damage that was added on other players, however, as Rage already has a slight uphill battle in elite ST environments and it would have been nice for something to close that gap.


Mangle
Increase damage to 1.63 of current test value and increase range to 50%.

Same balance approach as Ballistic Assault with additional QoL/feel added via the range increase. Still a bit awkward but in a muuuch better place like this and gives Rage a viable direct damage option and enhance the flavour and diversity we see from Red Lantern players.


Sorcery
Baleful Transmogrification
Increase damage to 1.31 of current test value.

Balanced to be a teensie bit stronger than Entomb due to being a DoT.


Grand Summoning
Change Source Shard so that Godwave Strength prioritizes specific targets instead of buffing the three closest pets, as per this thread (but with additional investigation as required).

Balanced well for after consumables are active but will lag more once factoring group buffs and damage losses. This is a good dumb-fire option now that'll be a great pick for struggling DPS but which is suprassed by other options on high end players. The big issue is that Sorcery is the premier Source Shard power but running this in a pet build actually breaks the pet build, because these will steal Godwave Strength from critical pets like Fury during Offering. Good flavour, atrocious QoL.


Polymorph
Increase damage to 1.19 of current test value.

Balanced using in-game pure-ST vs AoE-capable DPS rules to be pure-ST version of Entomb, essentially.


Water
Call of the Deep
Increase to 1.046 of current test value. Fix crit-guarantee exploit if you haven't already.

Balanced relative to comparable instant damage, instant cast SCs. Fixing the exploit isn't critical, as the rotation required to do it is atrocious, but it's derpy and shouldn't be doable (if it still hasn't been addressed).


Dehydrate
Adjust DMG modifiers for costs as follows:

0-2500 no change
2501-5000 no change
5001-7500 to 0.9 of current test value
7501-9999 to 0.85 of current test value
10000+ to 0.85 of current test value

The high damage is justified because there is no refund mod, wasting SC is guaranteed in that we have to eyeball the meter and guesstimate (we can't fit a 2500 SC on our bar for a frame of reference without significant DPS losses), and because it's pure ST. No one will achieve perfect efficiency with this and sometimes players will have to sit on SC even though it means it gets burnt later less efficiently. Either we play it so close that we wiff the proc threshold at times or we pay more for what we're getting to be safe, hurting our bottom line.

Probably the hardest "SC" to use correctly and despite being instant, maximizing DMG:SC without a reference SC to see a bar is a challenging minigame. Its unforgiving nature suits the Water flavour in that the less we respect it the more we'll suffer when we mess up.


Whirlpool
Increase damage to 1.33 of current test value and increase radius to 60%.

Balanced similar to comparable fields with a size increase to better suit the flavour of the power and QoL.

Acrobatics

Devastating Flip

Increase cost to 5000. Change head mod to refund 500. Increase damage to 3.5 of current test value. Allow jump cancelling the backwards movement portion (similar to how Lex' LPVE Afterburners can be jump cancelled to stay in position).

The damage can't be made viable as a 2500 cost without factoring that it'd exclusively be used for EoG spam and, similarly, wouldn't be DPS competitive for burst checks. Changing the DPS movement SCs 5000-costs gives players access to additional boss-viable options if their power is lacking in a particular area, helps ensure there's a performance baseline for burst DPS checks like Grail's Omega Level Pardon, and just feels better.

Perfect Poise

Increase damage to 1.715 of current test value or 2.5 of current test value when used against helpless enemies. Extend shield duration slightly.

This is a mechanic on several LPVE characters and it has the potential to create an interesting dynamic for tanks (or melee DPS with good timing who can then also benefit from instant post-combat mobility). Still the weakest SC tier once buffed to compensate for substitution losses but the "helpless" bonus cranks its effectiveness up when timed carefully. This also makes things interesting in that Tanks will have an SC option tuned uniquely for them with a mix of conditional damage options and defensive/mobility capabilities.

Flight

Dustoff

Increase damage to 1.2 of current test value or 1.69 of current test value when used against helpless enemies. Increase shield duration slightly. Allow players to deactivate flight sooner to get back in position more quickly.

Same balance and reasoning as Perfect Poise but slightly more damage to compensate for being a bit more unwieldy and taking the player a bit more out of combat.

Vacuum Bubble

Increase cost to 5000. Change head mod to refund 500. Increase damage to 3.5 of current test value.

Same balance and reasoning as Devastating Flip.

Superspeed

Dash Attack

Increase damage to 1.75 of current test value or 2.55 of current test value when used against helpless enemies. Increase shield duration slightly.

Same balance and reasoning as Perfect Poise and Dustoff but balanced between the two for being a bit more convenient than Dustoff but not as convenient as Perfect Poise.

Speed Drain

Increase cost to 5000. Change head mod to refund 500. Increase damage to 3.1 of current test value.

Same balance and reasoning as Devastating Flip.

Iconic

Clown Box

Reduce DoT damage to 0.35 of current test value, increase final burst to 3.15 of current value, and reduce blast radius to 40%

Equivalent to an overall damage increase of 1.75. Priced as a hybrid option due to strong shield potential but range reduction will justify its damage remaining reasonable despite being behind other 5000-cost SCs. Also Placed lion's share of dmg on final tick to justify letting it be a bit closer to pure DPS 5000s due to risk of things moving away once a player enters clown box. Better reward than before but increased risk and better feel on the "pop" moment.

Neo Venom Boost

Revert to DMG buff potenty of 0.4

The 45s CD is already a punishing component that balances this SC and, even on live, only very good DPS could perform to the degree where it surpassed other options while still being extremely vulnerable to constant minor to moderate damage losses. It's the baseline for SC reference and will already be in a considerably weakened position relative to other options after adopting these other changes.

Pheremone Bloom

Increase damage to 2,27 of current test value. Change into a group burst heal + HoT on par with Word of Power's PoT capabilities (but balanced for the lower cost)

Priced as a hybrid utility/DPS option like Clown Box and Word of Power. Changing to a group heal + HoT will also make it a more viable support option without really affecting the DPS aspect (as without Dom+Resto, the heal potency should be negligible).

Word of Power

Increase damage to 1.48 of current test value and increase range to 100%.

Balanced the same as the other Ultility/DPS options and spec'd specifically to be a bit more appealing an option for a battle troll. Increasing the range like this better suits the flavour a la it'll be a big, indiscriminate Shazam-style **** blast without the capacity to focus it as any kind of clean damage.

Note on general cooldown changes: Unless indicated herein, the only CD that needed adjusting was Mass Hysterias. 2500SC should not be reduced to 15s and Neo should not be reduced to 30s. It's a lazy bandaid that throws in the towel on the entire SC system instead of just applying the appropriate, common sense balance changes the system needs to be damn near perfect.

Additional note: The damage fields are the hardest to balance and require qualitative (radius) adjustments in addition to quantitative (damage) adjustments because of how their reliability varies drastically from instance to instance (and even within the same instance). Trying to balance damage fields without addressing the qualitative concerns on some cannot work, as the damage would have to be set such that they're useless in their riskier situations or completely broken in their safest situations.

That said, the suggestions I made for damage fields, while still being the only ones really with some wiggle room for some debate, are about where they need to be combined with their radius changes to be at a point I'd consider them potentially useful in a field of balanced SCs.

Bump

This sounds way better than the changes in the test server. I think the SC need some minor changes instead of a revamp, but if the SCs are changed this way at least it's seems bit more convincing with the data. The way they set all the cool down time of SC with respective SC cost the same is just breaking SCs, different SCs got different mechanisms, instead of equality we need equity, coz the nature of these power sets are just different and they can't be just equalised or sth. Think that they should definitely take this post into consideration, if they really wanna make the proposed SC policy any better.

Should note that these suggestions are intentionally balanced exclusively around the SCs in and of themselves under the assumption that SC-dependent powers would be adjusted to compensate (but I argue that such SC changes to those powers shouldn't occur until the corresponding base corrections are made).

Personally, I prefer the idea of having a few powers where overall performance is heavily SC dependent, ie. Elec, Nature, Ice (though Ice is a sleeper in that its current high DMG:SC with Blizzard spam with its unique mod is high risk due to it being a damage field and it would require a CD reduction to carry the power's other shortcomings), Water (if a player can consistently do the Dehydrate "minigame" accurately, esp while Scrap swapping at the right moment to increase total SC to at least 2501), etc. Built the spreadsheet so it can be tweaked either way though. Stuff like Elec will be especially turbo screwed if CB is reduced at all without something else being buffed, as the Might side is currently balanced around the fact that CB exists and its extra potency is what keeps it on par with other powers. From a Prec standpoint though, any power with a uniquely strong buff gains an advantage over other Prec powers, so I'm fine with such buffs being toned down if the raw Might side of those powers are brought up to compensate.

Edit: The other thing they can do to power-specific buff SCs is separate them to different Might and Prec % buffs instead of just being raw DMG buffs. That'd allow the Might side of those powers to retain their flavour without creating a Prec imbalance. That's my preferred solution.

I reallllllllly wish the devs would take posts like these into heavy consideration. We get it, you guys have a lot on your plate with other balance updates and DLC releases, and many of you don’t play the game at a high level or even at all (which sucks but is fine, people gotta make a living) but players that really know the game make amazing suggestions like this all the time and in this case here you have someone crunching the data FOR YOU and giving very reasonable balance options that you could literally copy/paste for free.... it may not make everything 100% balanced, but it’s infinitely better than what was suggested on test and would be a great step in the right direction. I really hope the devs look into these suggestions or actually put in similar effort into their own changes because these are great man, this was a fun read and actually got me a little excited about the game again as if these were REAL patch notes lol.

Have to make a change to my Ice Elemental suggestion, as it was made before the blanket SC CD changes. If Neo Venom Boost has its CD reduced to 30s then the duration of Ice Elemental must remain 15s or the Tank side of the SC becomes worthless. It's always been essentially NVB but split into its respective damage and def buff components on a role specific basis, allowing the dmg buff and the def buff to be slightly higher as a result. Spreadsheet is updated by essentially I recommend IE be reverted to 15s and the DMG buff potency be reduced to 44-45%.

Edit: Also corrected an error on Polymorph where I had my equation removing the substitution loss twice when present. Doesn't change the suggestion, but the DMG:SC columns properly indicate now for an ST 5k.

it's interesting that only certain players are allowed to comment on the original dev thread.

my thoughts are along the lines of caution....

so it was interesting to me - when, why precision was nerfed....

now months later - might rules - precision based toons cannot realistically do as much damage as might based toons

so I think there needs to be caution w/the balancing of superpowers....

it's obvious to me that the method of testing isn't thought out well enough to be truly equal.

I say this again with looking at might vs precision - I've gone against might based toons - who have less CR and lesser artifacts as well as augments - and often I just don't do as much damage as before the nerf (I suspect these players also don't have a maxed out generator - but I can't see that via inspection)

I just keep playing the game.... so with the balancing of SCs across all powers..... I hope the devs really just look at the math.
there has to be some sort of math behind all of this.... right?


*** I think there should be more transparency as to how SC really works. ***

for instance is an SC generator power all that much better than using multiple powers with DoTs?
or if you use the artifact cola - just how much time do you have between clicking on the cola and using the SC to generate the biggest hit (most damage) (is it half of a second? or more? or less?)
Is using your supply drop then the artifact cola better or vice versa?

I guess for me - I wish in the combat tab ( or in another tab ) we could see the effect of using a boost.
whether an event cookie, a consumable, an omega capsule or any other boost.
it would be really nice to see the boost effect within a chat tab.
as a PS player - the only real method is to go back into your inventory, then click on stats tab, then scroll down to the affected power (might, precision, dom, resto, vit)
that just takes to long and then you're wasting time
sure you might be able to find the right thread in the forum, but who has the time? the knowledge? the trust?
if it was all transparent within a few chat tabs - this could really inform the player of what's occuring - no guess work involved - and perhaps less angst for every player.


This would allow much more accurate reporting for PS players - instead of via PC (it appears to me that PS players are dependent on PC players - see test server for instance ) - which really should be for PC players only.
I don't believe PS and PC players click on their buttons at the same rate or at the same skill level.

so again I caution with SC balancing.... as a player I still don't feel I really know the game .... there have been so many updates over all these years - that maybe in general I can speak of somethings (because it hasn't changed) - but I can't really tell everyone or anyone based on fact....
what I say is based on feel - something developed over time - where you not only notice your game play (nerfing or upgrading) - but others as well.

because now that might vs precision has been "balanced"
and now we're looking as SC being "balanced"
what's next? weapon attacks being balanced? would you really change every button layout for each weapon???
that would entail far more work than the prior 2 balancing acts...
and right now IMHO - the first balancing - is not really balanced for PS players - perhaps it is balanced for PC players - but definitely not balanced at all for PS players.

I suspect that the SC balancing will lead to fewer SC powers being used - instead of the intended (my guess) more SC powers being used.
if you want more SC powers being used - you need to bring more transparency into seeing the effects of SC, the build of SC, the interaction of SC with boosts - and you could do all of this via chat tabs (or at least I think you can).
You'll get much more feedback from players - especially if they can capture what they can see and present it as fact ( a matter of fact). and I suspect there will be a difference with PS players and PC players.

this game started out with 6 powers
and each power that was added was supposed to be greater than prior powers and thus an enticement for players.
I think if the game had just stuck with essentially a tiered layer of powers, you would then have players understanding that the newer xyz power will cost more (drives the free to play or premium player to be a legendary player) and have much more advantages.

now I think with balancing of SC (equalization of SC) will also bring about the balancing of powers - that will bring about more dissatisfaction - every power will be just like any other....
so then will it really be a matter of skill? or if you have larger thumbs this allows you to clip much more easily that other PS players?
(PC players can all clip equally)...

again that is why I say caution - and I would prefer that the devs just did it by the numbers (it's all in the code? right?)
for instance can any SC be used to clip another power???
again that's why I ask for transparency instead - it would easier for everyone (player) to understand the interaction between your particular powers.

I would be ok with seeing in a chat tab - something along the lines of:
for instance....
you click on your artifact cola
and you'll then see in the chat tab - RED SUN in effect
and then when it goes away - RED SUN nil (or something along those lines)
something like an on and off switch.
so if you didn't hit (click) on your SC or whatever power in time - you wouldn't see boosted damage

you could even have something along the lines of:
for instance:
RED SUN in effect
SC xyz damage boosted by RED SUN xyz %
RED SUN off

right now a lot of players say ice as a power is a trash tank - IMHO it should be no better or worse than fire (since they were the first two tank powers in the game).

again will SC balancing really do justice? (for ice in this case)

transparency is the real answer

just saying....
I'll get off the soap box....

Strongly encourage, both in general and if any changes whatsoever are made to Circuit Breaker, changing Grimorium Verum to apply Electrify PI. Even without having to establish its own PI the power is still a tiny bit below (the admittedly pretty tight) average in boss fights, so this would be just a good commonsense change even independent of the SC issue which could utterly hamstring the power.

Supercharge Analysis updated with a column for "best case" DMG:SC values of each SC with either Piper (for non-pet, non-buff DMG SCs) or Scrap (for pet DMG and buff SCs). I say "best case" because 2500 cost SCs would still be min:maxed with Scrap instead of Piper but leaving them with Piper in that column to show its effect on them.

I've also added an additional spreadsheet for the Live Server.

No changes to suggested changes. The Pied Piper artifact still results in healthiest possible outcomes if the recommended SC adjustments are adopted.

How will this affect Healer / Controller / Tank SCs? If the damage portion gets set in 10K supercharge, it may make it unplayable for non-DPS roles? For instance, Celestial lacks a playable 10000 DPS SC, but some Heal builds rely on Cursed Idol being semi-spammable.

For Piper you mean? It's exclusively a DPS swap arti. It doesn't really alter existing game balance but looks to be an excellent tac swap arti that will match and compliment existing swap options.

In regards to the 10k thing:

- On Live, it giving 10ks the biggest boost doesn't upset the balance or SC meta as it doesn't make up for the notaple gap between the the BiS DPS SCs for each power and their runners up.
- On Test, with the previous SC changes, it further skew balance/meta in favour of 10ks (but that's because the SC changes on test made pretty much every DPS SC that wasn't a buff or a 10k non-viable in the first place, so Piper just exacerbates it).
- With my recommended changes, Piper makes 10ks a slightly more attractive option than they were without upsetting the overall balance or meta and every DPS SC option remains on the table to the point no one can really say "always use this SC because nothing else comes close" and everything remains viable.

So basically, as long as the Test SC changes don't get forced to live along with it, it's a healthy balanced arti (once the bugs and range are fixed).... But we're still status quo with our semi-balanced-but-still-pretty-outta-whack live SC system (which is still infinitely better than the test changes this thread was in response to, don't get me wrong).

Edit: And the whole "certain powers don't even have 10k DPS SCs" is a big part of why it's so important to balance around DMG:SC, which is what my suggestions does and which the current live system attempts to do (but the Live iteration isn't perfect obviously and there are significant balance gaps between SC choices on each power right now).

No. I'm considering how a DPS supercharge review may make those same supercharges unplayable in non-DPS role.
For instance, Celestial has no DPS 10000 SC hit (or, in fact ANY DPS SC). In fact it has only one DPS-possible SC - Cursed Idol. Which currently sits at 5000 SC. In Heals, though, Idol is part of both the EoG heals and the Battle Heals loadouts.

If it's damage gets ramped to make it playable in DPS (with the attached extra SC cost), it would ruin it on the Healer side? IF it were tweaked to do more DPS.

Neither the Test Server SC changes nor my personal recommendations proposed changing those to 10k SCs so you'd be fine.

I think that this is a side of the SC revamp that has been ignored. It's been very DPS-centric, but we've heard nothing on what the adjusted costs mean to non-DPs SC aspects.