Test Discussion Damage Supercharge Balance

Discussion in 'Testing Feedback' started by Ranmaru, Feb 24, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Ranmaru Developer

    Howdy everyone!

    We are happy to announce our plans for balancing DPS Supercharges. We plan to have our players test these changes and make adjustments as necessary based on feedback. We will have dedicated time to test these changes on PC Test for players to give their feedback.

    Problems we are tackling:
    Many of our supercharges had a wide range of damage that might not exactly reflect the difficulty of use or even the cost of the ability. You had some 5k supercharges that our performed 10k supercharges or some abilities that were out shined by similar abilities within the same powerset.

    How we approached these problems:
    Our plan is to account for these details and attempt to level out Supercharges by their cost, ease of use, and risks associated to them. Our current approach to balancing supercharges is the following:
    Base damage of a 10,000 cost supercharge will be approximately 250% stronger than the base damage of a 5,000 cost supercharge.
    Base damage of a 5,000 cost supercharge will be approximately 250% stronger than the base damage of a 2,500 cost supercharge.

    Added modifiers that adjusted base damage on whether an ability was Pet damage, Buffs, DoTs, Channeled, a projectile, or instant bursts.

    Instant Burst damage is low risk so will do less damage than a similar cost ability that is Channeled due to missed up-time of other abilities or combat dangers while stuck channeling.

    Found 2 specific abilities that filled the same niche as other supercharges within the same powerset. These abilities have been revamped.
    Rampage (Nature)
    Infuriate (Rage)
    Changed the Supercharge cost for Ice Powerset's 'Freeze Ray'.

    Details:
    When reading the changes below, please keep in mind that despite nerfs or buffs, Supercharges should be pretty equal across the board regardless of Powerset. So if you see a change to your favorite supercharge, keep in mind that the change was made to put it in line with other similar cost Supercharge abilities.


    Revamped Abilities:

    Rampage (Nature)
    (OLD) Receive a damage buff as well as crit/crit damage modifiers for a short period of time.

    (NEW) For the next 3 seconds, any poisons/pheromones you apply or spread will deal significantly increased damage/healing for their duration. (Approximately 148% increased effectiveness)
    Infuriate (Rage)


    (OLD) Increase critical chance (25%) and critical damage (45%)to your self and gain CC immunity for 8 seconds. Apply healing proc on self and allies.

    (NEW) Increase critical chance (10%) and critical damage (25%) and gain CC immunity for 8 seconds for you and your allies. Apply healing proc on self and allies.
    Freeze Ray

    Increased the supercharge cost of Freeze Ray to 10,000 (up from 5,000).

    Increased damage of Freeze Ray by 93%.

    Both Rampage and Infuriate filled similar niches and to a lesser extent to what their powersets already offered
    (Wolf form for Nature and Berserk for Rage). We looked at what they might do differently or how it could play with other abilities in the powerset.

    As for Ice, it was missing a strong ST offensive ability and we wanted Freeze Ray to be a reason you might bring an Ice DPS for it's really high ST burst potential as well as providing a 10k supercharge for the powerset.

    All Supercharge Changes:
    • All 10,000 Cost abilities had their cooldowns lowered to 60 seconds
    • All 5,000 Cost abilities had their cooldowns lowered to 30 seconds
    • All 2,500 Costa abilities had their cooldowns lowered to 15 seconds


    Atomic
    • Radiation Burn (10,000 SC)
      • Damage increased by 19%.
    • Atomic Blast (5,000 SC)
      • Damage reduced by 17%.

    Celestial

    • Life Drain (5,000 SC)
      • Damage increased by 13%.
    • Cursed Idol (5,000 SC)
      • No change

    Earth

    • Meteor Shower (10,000 SC)
      • Damage increased by 16%.
    • Earth Quake (5,000 SC to up 10,000 SC)
      • Damage increased by 8%.
    • Entomb (5,000 SC)
      • Damage reduced by 36%.

    Electricity

    • Megavolt (5,000 SC)
      • Damage reduced by 14%.
    • Circuit Breaker (5,000 SC)
      • Damage output reduced to 25% (down from 50%)
      • Duration increased to 22 seconds (up from 15)
      • Changes equate to a approximately 31% reduction of effectiveness but should see much larger up-time.

    Fire

    • Volcanic Calamity (10,000 SC)
      • Damage increased by 5%.
    • Fireball Barrage (5,000 SC)
      • Damage reduced by 40%.

    Gadgets

    Bunker Buster (10,000 SC)
      • Damage increased by 19%.
    • Battle Drone (5,000 SC)
      • Damage increased by 163%.
    • Asphyxiation Gas (5,000 SC)
      • No change

    Ice
    • Deep Freeze (5,000 SC)
      • Damage reduced by 15%
    • Blizzard (5,000 SC)
      • Damage reduced by 23%
    • Ice Elemental (5,000 SC)
      • Damage reduced by 3%
      • Can now use movement mode while form changed
      • Can now use iconic abilities while form changed
    • Freeze Ray (10,000 SC)
      • Changes shown earlier in post.

    Iconics

    • Word of Power (5,000 SC)
      • Damage increased by 54%.
    • Neo Venom Boost (5,000 SC)
      • Damage output reduced to 38% (down from 40%)
    • Clown Box (5,000 SC)
      • Damage reduced by 14%
    • Pheromone Bloom (2,500 SC)
      • Damage reduced by 36%

    Light

    • Strafing Run (10,000 SC)
      • Damage increased by 15%.
    • Ballistic Assault (5,000 SC)
      • Damage reduced by 24%
    Mental

    • Bolt Barrage (10,000 SC)
      • No change
    • Mass Hysteria (5,000 SC)
      • Damage increased by 45%.

    Movement Mode

    • Speed Drain (2,500 SC)
      • Damage reduced by 24%
    • Vacuum Bubble / Gale (2,500 SC)
      • Damage reduced by 29%
    • Devastating Flip (2,500 SC)
      • Damage reduced by 29%


    Munitions

    • Biggun (10,000 SC)
      • Damage reduced by 3%
      • Damage no longer varied based on targets. Should always be the strongest version of the attack.
    • Mounted Turret (5,000 SC)
      • Damage reduced by 12%

    Nature

    • Canine Form (2,500 SC)
      • No change
    • Rampage (5,000 SC)
      • Changes shown earlier in post.
    • Chaotic Growth (10,000 SC)
      • Damage increased by 7%.
    • Gorilla Form (5,000 SC)
      • Duration increased to 18 seconds (up from 15)
    • Wolf Form (5,000 SC)
      • Damage bonus increased to 15% (up from 10%)
    • Carnivorous Plants (5,000 SC)
      • Damage reduced by 13%

    Quantum

    • Temporal Vortex (5,000 SC)
      • Damage reduced by 21%
    • Oblivion (10,000 SC)
      • Damage reduced by 9%

    Rage

    • Infuriate (5,000 SC)
      • Changes shown earlier in post.
    • Mangle (5,000 SC)
      • Damage reduced by 21%
    • Berserk (5,000 SC)
      • Damage bonus reduced to 85% (Down from 90%)
      • Duration reduced to 8 seconds (Down from 13 seconds)

    Sorcery

    • Baleful Transmogrification (5,000 SC)
      • Damage reduced by 6%
    • Polymorph (5,000 SC)
      • Damage reduced by 9%
    • Grand Summoning (10,000 SC)
      • Damage increased by 7%.

    Water

    • Whirlpool (5,000 SC)
      • Damage reduced by 16%
    • Call of the Deep (10,000 SC)
      • No change

    Please keep in mind that these numbers are subject to change as we gather data from players testing the changes. We will be adding a decaying trinket on the PC Test vendor that grants a full Supercharge Bar.
    As always, please keep this thread civil and on topic!
    • Like x 4
  2. TheEnquirer Active Player

    Very interesting changes.
    A lot has been revamped, a lot has been reduced, some slightly, some drastically. Some has been upgraded. I'll be keeping my eye on Mental's Mass Hysteria, Sorcery's SC's, and Neo Venom Boost to see how they do with these changes. The pet modifier (that we have no calculations for) will be interesting to discover more about.
    • Like x 1
  3. TheRealDemon Dedicated Player

  4. MyDpsIsBetter Dedicated Player

    I have pitched the idea in the past and now with the super charge changes this is now more important then ever. With how the class currently works with source shard grand summoning has no place in the game.
    the suggested change to allow it to sync with source shard is it granting a buff to fury, watcher or guardian.
    That would allow to pet respective of which is summoned much increased effectiveness. I suggest the SC remain a 10,000 with the trend now being them so power now that we get the most out of this improved Version.
    Fury gains increased attack power or Fury cast massive attack that can be increased more by source shard users
    Watcher Increased Heals, Cast a Group HoT when used with source shard
    Guardian Increased Health, Defense and CC
    Open to visual changes as well that can work with how the cosplayers see Sorc.
    Double post but this is the best place for this post to been seen and it's important sorc gets done right.
  5. Mr.W Well-Known Player

    Thank you for opening the discussion. I mainly have questions not really criticism right now.


    With quantum (I have to double check b/c I haven't played with it in a while) but, isn't oblivion technically a channeled 10k sc like ice's? Was its nerf done b/c of its potential muti target damage & if so was the splitting damage on those multi targets considered too?



    As for sorcery's baleful & electric's megavolt was the time it takes for those dots to resolve for their total damage considered when bringing those two sc down &/or how they may react or build with some artifacts?


    The other question i have is regarding the buff sc. Why was electrics circuit break hit so much more heavily than rages berserk when berserk (to my knowledge i have to check again) actually does the damage again at the end of its duration? Also from my findings a while ago (in non prec builds but would assume it worked the same in prec builds) both circuit breaker & berserk were always slightly ahead of neo venom so why did neo venom have to be brought down again?
  6. Dogico Loyal Player

    I don't have access to test but can someone make sure Earth's Earthquake is worth using? It's a very long cast combo power that can be interrupted. I'm not sure if the proposed increase is enough and I think it should grant cc immunity like a few other scs do.
  7. Kimone Luthor Genetech Clone



    Circuit Breaker is getting seven extra seconds of Uptime: with current Cloak cooldown, that means (assuming you have a proper SC build and Healer EoG back) you could, in theory, keep it active non-stop. Berserk has an 8 second duration, so it's a little more shock and awe. Neo Venom is about to have a 30 second cooldown, instead of 45 - so 2% reduction in damage is perfectly acceptable for a tradeoff. That's just from the cheap seats here.
  8. AV Loyal Player

    Comprehensive feedback posted here. Long story short, this is a garbage... garbage change for everyone.

    Full analysis: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PHkqTN798u9a9iLH-d5u43EUHg4pKdJrnq8z7gyuTLQ/edit#gid=0

    It's not. It's worthless. The only SCs remotely viable are a few buff SCs and some 10ks. Everything else becomes unusable due to suffering a considerable DMG:SC shortfall in even their best-case scenarios before factoring any vulnerabilities.


    The CB change is one of the worst ones and probably the one that makes it most clear that w/e came up with these had no idea what they were doing. In its absolute best case scenario, this makes CB worse than Neo in every way. In reality, on top of not performing as well, it will lose more damage in content due to the longer duration and because it dilutes the benefit of stacking additional buffs. It's not viable anymore and neither is Megavolt by a staggering margin. Elec's option becomes Neo or **** for all intents and purposes, as a player would have to spend almost half of their Neo uptime doing zero damage for Megavolt to tie it. CB is ~10% behind Neo raw and is less likely to actually achieve peak performance.


    There are just so... soooo many things comically wrong with these changes from the ground up. At present on live, there are clear BiS SCs but most SCs remain in a situational toolbox category. With the test changes, most SCs may as well not even exist. With the changes I suggested in the linked thread, every SC is balanced to the point that player knowledge, skill, experience, and execution become the most important factors to the point that someone like me can't explicitly point out what's BiS because it would be a properly balanced system with nuance.

    It cannot be overstated how ******* stupid these changes are across the board. These changes need to ****.
    • Like x 10
  9. Mr.W Well-Known Player



    I can see where you're coming from in that perspective, I guess the thing that has me concerned & that I have to test to see is that on paper, (from my pov) its going to take 7 additional secs/tics for a player to get half the total damage & will the extended up time in combat truly be equalized with the other buff sc.
  10. Black Prime OG Devoted Player

    Funny, you know there was a time when we were supposed to get powers to be like Bane. Guess this is the compromise.

    I am gonna be rolling if the next art is centered around neo.
  11. Kimone Luthor Genetech Clone

    Reduced to 25% or reduced BY 25%?

    Right now it provides a damage boost of 55%, per in-game description of the Ability itself while active.
  12. Mr.W Well-Known Player


    I haven't gotten to touch it myself yet to see for sure yet but just reading everything on paper, this is exactly what I was concerned about lol
    • Like x 1
  13. The VL Active Player

    I would like to bring attention to balancing in regards to Flight's Dustoff Supercharge and Super Speed's Dash Attack Supercharge because there are Movement Supercharges mentioned among the list of changes and matters concerning movement itself are also included(such as Ice Elemental being able to use movement mode).
    A Flight user is able to use Dustoff while being grounded or not having access to their movement mode. However a Super Speed user is unable to use Dash Attack unless they are in their movement mode. This may not seem like a big deal to you or even some players who aren't familiar, but these are both Supercharge Shield abilities and it is a clear imbalance when you guys design content where a player can be grounded or unable to use their movement mode at any point in time.
    A clear cut example that I've seen firsthand is a Tank in the Convergence of the Unmaking Elite being able to use Dustoff(because their movement is Flight and they are not required to be in their movement mode to use it) vs a Tank unable to use Dash Attack because they are Super Speed and Dash Attack requires you to be in your movement mode. While the Flight user is not getting launched into the air if they are grounded, they are still getting the shield which is what the important thing here is. Meanwhile for a Super Speed player, Dash Attack becomes a waste of space on their loadout bar. Many are forced to swap out their Dash Attack for an ability they may not need or one that would not provide the same benefit originally desired.
    That's one extra shield(supercharge shield) for a Flight user while a Speed user is unable to use their equivalent of a Supercharge Shield. One extra shield to a tank can mean a lot in certain scenarios.
    You should also allow Dash Attack to be usable without the need for Super Speed users to be in their movement mode. This is a simple fix you can implement while doing the other movement changes such as the one mentioned for ice elemental.
    If this is something that would be better discussed in a separate thread, please let me know so one can be opened(Dev response). Thank you!
    • Like x 7
  14. Kimone Luthor Genetech Clone

    I'm waiting to hear from Ranmaru and doing a little comparative mathematics before I get pitchforks and torches over what looks like a typo... Anyway, back shortly.
  15. Mr.W Well-Known Player


    Okay thank you. The more clarification we get the better it is for us all.
  16. Gassius_Spray Loyal Player

    maybe not centered around neo venom, per se, but an artifact that will buff super charges with crit mag/chance/multipliers/extended dot durations as well as offer some pretty good base stats with tiered level etc. Who knows. But I did think after seeing some of the reductions: "wonder if the reductions will be made up in a future artifact(s)" lol
  17. Mr.W Well-Known Player


    To make the sc shields available even with raid wide cc effects is a good idea, I also think Dustoff animation should be changed to something similar to the low pressure pull animation rather than shooting us to hive moon base lol.
    • Like x 3
  18. xFLASHo New Player

    Hopefully CB nerf doesn't entirely make its way to live server. Definitely need to adjust a few other supers as well. Just need testers to give their opinions
  19. Gmoney Active Player

    Fire only has 2 supercharger, both lacking in damaged, but you increased freeze ray and word of power!! Sad
    • Like x 1
  20. L T Devoted Player

    It's now a 25% bonus for 22 seconds. About a 30% nerf if you consider damage buff * seconds buffed compared to live, but since there's a bigger chance that you'll have to stop to do a mechanic, get interrupted, or move to the next group of adds in 22 seconds, the actual losses will be greater than that.
    • Like x 5
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.