Stats Revamp 1.4 - Nature Feedback Redux

I´m glad that you guys had made the right decission to bring in line those abilities.
With that being said, i thing that SG and Briar should be buffed, and give one them a stronger initial tick, similar of how Voltaic Bolt worked for electric on its first iterations.

I'm glad to see swarm was brought in line, but it also showcases how much a crutch it was with impressions of it's potential. Please buff other parts of the damage to bring in line with other powersets.

I'm using pftt.

Feedback
That Swarm adjustment hit Nature pretty hard. I've spent the last couple of hours trying out a lot of Damage role loadouts and nothing is working very well. The overall damage you get from setting up and maintaining a poison stack just isn't worth the time/power investment. Gadgets Cryo-Field appears to be doing just as much DoT damage as what a full poison stack accomplishes.

The best damage I'm seeing so far comes from clipping Swarm with Carnage and then clipping Wolf's Smokebomb attack with Roar. Keep doing Smokebomb -> Roar until it is time to refresh Swarm and Carnage. Even that results in substandard damage though.

Besides Roar, Nature doesn't have any satisfactory burst options and the DoTs are doing terrible damage. Something needs to be adjusted here.

Nature most literally went from having a bright future ahead of it and being one of the top DPS powers on test, to being completely screwed up and back on the bottom. If you look at Penryn's posts above (and thanks for all the contructive feedback Penryn! Your work is very appreciated) you'll see some of the problems you said were fixed, sill exist, and some new bugs are even forming now too! Savage Growth for example on the DPS side of things is now a complete joke, it damages you and nearby allies still and then doesn't deal damage at all sometimes. I was actually enjoying playing nature on test with how it was before this update to it. But what can I say, I sympathized for all the Nature users out there and was finally excited to see their chance to stand out in the crowd now amongst their DPS brethren, but then they just blew it by ranting how OP swarm was and saying it needed a big nerf and to share the love with the other DoT powers. I'm sorry but this is just messed up now. Now that you realize what was wrong with swarm sharing the love with DoTs and being nerfed, Crappy can officially say "I told you so". Other than that, Electric, Ice, and Sorcery all seem to be in great spots now compared to the other DPS powers, maybe take a look at those and see what ideas you can come up with to bring nature back to speed.
P.S. Natures healing side is too weak and is way too power hungry, please fix that.
P.S.S. I normally would not get this upset, but this is pretty upsetting.

Nothing had to be adjusted if the stuff was just left as well is.. nothing is ever good enough for people. In combat the move wasn't game breaking and other powersets could compete now people think other moves will be buffed...

One pet power being adjusted down and suddenly nothing is viable. That shows at what state Nature actually is at and how much of a crutch swarm actually was. That was a bandaid fix that if left alone could potentially cause more problems later. This means nature needs a damage buff in the powers category. Not one single power. This was the issue everyone had with AMs and I thought everyone was happy that was being changed?

Nature was not in a good state with swarm as strong as it was. BumblingB made a parsing video showing just how much of a difference swarm made with and without it. It nearly doubled his total damage. I'm sorry but that screams "cookie cutter gimmick" loadout all over again which is what we are trying to get away from. If nature was left as is it would have been "swarm or get out." ALL powers should be as viable as swarm was, and the devs should have buffed nature's other big dots along with the swarm nerf, and like Crappy said, give it another burst option.

How can you compare some strong ability that makes up for natures lack in single target short fights to AM... Nature is back at square one currently nature just went for tied with electric to below rage on test with nothing to show for it. I see exactly why gadgets is how it is now.

Is what? I am hating gadgets too. Completely losing faith in this update. You want an honest opinion, even with all the lower damage that nature can do, I still enjoy it 50x more than gadgets right now. Gadgets is back to broken GU36 state, while nature at least flows well. They need to do a damage increase pass for it and it will be fine. They can't do that with gadgets. It doesn't flow one bit. For all the rotations I've tried, nothing feels good. Most of it is dovetail related.

I know why you are upset, I am too, but asking for a single power to be the only thing that levels the playing field and you literally are asking for a problem later.

Crappy said that if they add the damage they took from swarm to the dots, if you had more stats it would be too strong. I think they need to do that and make it that way. DoT vs Burst. As long as they keep that line drawn, then they need to buff the dots and I don't mean one.

Your the hommie Bumbling this not on you bro but this entire revamp so far has been nothing but disappointing stuff that we haven't asked for or hoped for... I am indeed not upset the move itself was nerfed but the fact I knew it was coming with nothing at all in place to make up for it that's normal dcuo fixes... I can enjoy the play style of nature still more then gadgets but thats even on live the damage just isn't where it needs to be now same as it is on live.

the more they, "fix" the worse it gets...

You weren't really a battle healer if you relied on Swarm to do damage in healer role.

idk what you parse with Elec but where everyone parses bit over or around 20k I'm sitting at a comfortable constant 30k (without SC) wondering when they will actually nerf Elec down lol

Electric is the embodiment of balance at the moment and probably the best DPS on test server currently. If you're not parsing over 25k with a hybrid spec, you're doing something wrong.

If the devs want ideas of what to do with nature, they need to look at electric and "copy, but don't make it obvious."

Sorry but I didn't rely on it. It just made it on par with Electric BH. As it stands I'd have to sacrifice too much to get close to Elec. even gorilla won't help close that gap.
I'm not too upset about it. I'm pretty sure Nature will get some better options.
^.^

*Cough* like buffing savage growth so it's on par with electroburst *cough* sheesh I think I'm getting sick

Ok first up i'll go over the supers. I sampled them a few times to get similar crit% so one wasn't doing better then another based or crit chance. I ended up getting the same crit% with both of them so i feel its a good comparison.

Carnivorous Plants has seemed to actually get a nerf compared to other 100% supercharges and i'd like to see it brought up to par with other 100%'s


Next up is Chaotic Growth which is a 50% super but deals roughly the same damage as Carnivorous that is a 100%


For comparison of another 100% super heres lights Strafing Run. Now this was a good one cause 2 of the initial hits where crits but usually its around 180k or close to 200k i just happened to get a lucky one in this test. Out of the 100%'s i've tried they all get relatively close to 200k, 180k is more average though and some better then others depending on crit%. and the power.

You need to try HL now, it got better, especially the power consumption part.

The doctor is in lets operate.... i'll post up some data quick to show where nature stands.

Nature using 3 dots, harvest,carnage,voracious on 3 targets 20k dps



Single Target 3 dots,swarm,carnage,harvest, voracious 10k dps



Now for a comparison with what elec so we have a base line for what things should be doing. 30k dps on aoe and I accidentally deleted the single target log but it was a 15k average.



So natures pretty bad and i knew that cause the dots were weak and this is as expected. I posted all the data before and pointed it out but i just had other feeling about swarm cause of how it brought the power together and the end result vs end result were still the same regardless of what swarm was. Now I feel like i'm right back on live server but it is what it is im over it so lets get to work.

What i would like to see is...

-The dots brought up to par. (main concern)

-A 300 burst power option but don't change voracious its 100 power cost spam ability is needed but we also need a strong power for burst.

-A melee option. Thorn shield should be our melee burst/spreader not a shield with a 12 second cooldown. If it was changed to a 300 power cost ability so it did good burst damage in melee range and spread/refreshed poisons like it always did nature would have a viable melee power which we lack at the moment. It would also have to have a 3 second cooldown no longer cause that could affect you spreading and refreshing if it was to long of a cooldown. I really miss how this power used to be, myself and many others still use it on live to this day and to have it changed just stinks.

I'd like to start with that stuff and see where it gets us then make some more adjustments if necessary.

I'd like SG to get a bump up in damage and heals too, in addition to Briar get added healing functions. Vine Lash too.