Sorry but Gadgets has to be fixed!!!

I think the score board should have been removed 10 years ago its a coop game. has nothing to do with gadget being broken

you say No one but I'm someone so I have to disagree with you

So if you're running an elite instance that has a burn check or an "Enrage" involved, how do you know who isn't doing their job? Because if the board goes away, most groups will be kicking the lowest cr/ lowest artifacts player. Even tho we all know that they may not be the culprit. Or we can just kick any dps that isn't prec gadgets or electric/ munitions or fire might.

Edit: forgot about yesterday. We had 7 of us and picked up a random for the burn feat in fgse. 2 attempts later, the random was about 15mil down in 2nd column to the next lowest dps. Thanks scoreboard, now we know and knowing is half the battle. They couldn't do their job and we wouldn't have known what was going on without it

its no different than any other crit boosting super like from rage or neo venom boost. but to the orinal posting this still all comes down to the players who base their life behind the scorecard and forgets that we are all in this together and this is a coop game..

an no I'm not defending some meta. I haven't played a gadget toon in forever I could personally care who is at the top of some make believe score card

what you just described is the heart of this toxic community that all this has brought about

I just described the mechanics of certain raids. So you'd also remove burn checks I assume? I'm really not wanting to go down this rabbit hole but so far, your only defense to your stance is "it'll hurt less feelings". The board let's players have fun competing. Some are toxic. So are plenty of the fashionistas. They're just as bad if not worse really so should we remove styles?

The board let's players know they're getting better. Granted, they could be on the sparring targets but if they're hitting 30k in 10secs on 3 targets they may think that's great when it's about 100k shy of above average. So they go in with 4 other like minded and I'm tanking and 3 adds take 14mins? There are just sooooo many counter points and so far all anyone against it has ever said as a defense is the hurt feelings/ game is coop defense. Plenty of coop games have scoreboards. Competition can be fun and exciting. Remove it and watch a lottttt of players leave. I probably would. With the lack of new content, it's the only real fun a lot of us have had recently

1. Every day im reminded that a staggering majority of people on here do not know the difference between a "nerf" and a "fix". Please understand that this is not aimed directly at yourself btw. But its not a Nerf in the slightest. Changing something that is unintentional is a fix. They're fixing something that wasn't intended. Something that should not be possible in the first place is made impossible, with a fix. I can't really clarify that any further. The Devs don't "nerf" a bugged boss, they "fix" it. Reducing something intended = Nerf. Reducing/Eliminating something unintended = Fix. Im not really sure how to respond to the rest of (1) however. Its a bit of an oddity. You basically tried to say that because stealth clips aren't 100% at fault, nothing should be done about it at all. But then you point out that the "holstered supercharges", (holstered ofc in stealth), is 1 of 4 major reasons its busted. So the thing you dont want touched you then prove is a whole 25% of the problem. But wait.....Theres more! 2 of the other 3 problems get immediately resolved by my Number 2 solution and the Gem spam being something most powers can do, so now Stealth Clips/holstered supercharges are actually 100% of the problem. So, thanks for helping i guess?

2. I really dont get this point at all if im honest. So you think Might builds are just 1-2-3-boring, so you want Might to have something to do with a Prec build? It sounds like you just never let go of old habits when the revamp finished if i'm honest. Again, lets reiterate, the point of the revamp was to separate Prec and Might, Weps from Powers. I was around when, and long before, certain powers like Celestial actually did require Prec, don't let the new Forum acc fool you. Thats done. Gone. Finito. So the idea of requiring an opposite stat for a build is really the only "silly" thing here. And lets also end this weird phase of calling quick button pressing "skill". Its not, i'm sorry. Jumping around and reviving players while getting pummelled in an Elite Raid is skill. There's too many people referring to clipping as a "skill", so much so that you've made it sound far FAR more important than it is. The idea of separating Prec and Might came from the same Player Feedback that birthed Weapon Mastery, that Players want Weapon ONLY options. Back before the revamp, as im sure you'll remember, WM Combos were built so that if you clipped a power on the end of a Combo you'd get increased dmg. Thats gone. And its not a mistake that its gone. Its intentional. Revamp. Separation. Why do you think we have to choose between Weapon Expert, Hybrid or Superpowered with our very first Stats SP? So yeah, I absolutely think that the Weapon Expert option should have a Power use Penalty. Its Sole Purpose is Weapons. I'm afraid its far far from silly.

Also, the 4-power clip people were originally complaining about and calling broken is mediocre in general. The 3-power AoE clip does 169% of its damage, the 3-power ST clip does 143% of its damage, and since neither require a Turret clip and they share a power they can both fit in Stealth at the same time while leaving room for pet/buff and SCs. The 4-clip is only 13% more ST damage than the normal max range stealth exit but if someone runs it they can only do that clip and nothing else and since it takes so much space they have to sacrifice elsewhere to run multiple SCs (eg ditching pet or removing a power from main bar), so it's pretty much only defensibly "useful" in something like FGSe lb final phase and even then it's kinda pointless. It was effectively a solution looking for a problem that's never existed.

People in here acting like Gadgets and Mental don't have sub-par performance without Stealth & Invis and that Stealth and Invis aren't complex tools with benefits and liabilities, like every power has. They also pretending like those powers don't need way more loadout space to do their proper rotations in the first place. Why does every nerf qq in this game have to be so simple minded? "This power can do something other powers can't!" Like.. cool... That's literally every power in the game in some way... That's the whole gd point.

In this thread we've got:

- Players who have only played prec for years and bandwagoned Gadgets and EoG spam, incorrectly assuming that what they're doing is the GOAT
- Players who have never played Prec or Gadgets (and oh boy does it show) and are caught up in this dumb "I lost to a thing... It must mean that thing is too good" mindset instead of the "maybe I could be doing better" mindset
- Players just bumping this derpy nonsense for the drama

MMO communities at large have always had an issue with Dunning-Kruger effect but this thread takes the cake.

when "viability of build in PVE is being discussed through the lens of our heavily broken and completely unmonitored PVP system" that's an indicator that someone is complaining simply to complain and has departed entirely from the base discussion at hand.

like, "discussing Gadgets in PVE" to "mental in PVP", that's a tenuous leap at best because the reasons why A happens have very little actual overlap with why B happens, but it got thrown in there anyway for reasons that fly far wide of the initial mark and have very little bearing on the core conversation, being "gadgets PVE performance" (which is in itself a factor derived heavily from issues related to the way Speed Movement Abilities clip and their level of output in general, as well as the minmax mentality of the community and I daresay also probably input from a lot of people who are not actually as "endgame" as they would like to be, to judge by overlap between this line of discussion and things like the status of Skill Points as a system).

my point being - IF you want to complain about PVP balance?

1. There's a forum for that, it's not this one.
2. There are a million balance issues with PVP right now.
   
   and
   
   
3. You do something to address healer overperformance in PVP before we have a talk about Mental.

Most people here, and in game, don't know the difference between a "fix" and a "nerf". I just cant wait for the eventual meltdown on TC when it happens

Heck no, leave fire alone LOL

I'm fine with most of the community sleeping on powers like Fire and Celestial. Nothing makes me laugh more than going into a raid and blowing out a bunch of bandwagon gadgets DPS who have no clue what they are doing. Then seeing them a few days later with a power change lol.

If I'm getting blown out on the scoreboard, it means we are tearing through the raid. I'll take a whole group of experience gadgets if it means a smoother and faster run. We all get the same loot table at the end

Trouble is, the experienced gadgets players have no desire to be objective either, because any balance pass that could be perceived as a nerf, irrespective of whether it is warranted or not is seen as detrimental and doesn't serve their interests, so they' rather just not discuss it at all.

It's even worse imo when they deflect and start screaming "but what about elec or fire".

The reality is, very few people in this community seem to be prepared to have an objective discussion about power balance in this game at times, especially when it involves their own power or other favorites.

Certainly not a dig at you by any means you're certainly open to objective discussion, but many aren't so was just making a general observation

That and it's an extremely complex game compared to other MMOs, which is partly why the Dunning-Kruger effect is so much more extreme in DCUO. There's like.... maybe a few dozen players, tops, in the entire community who have the experience to actually comment on high-level game balance with relevant observation. It really seems like most of the forum QQ on the subject is just complaining for the sake of having something to complain about the overwhelming majority of the time. That or a really obnoxious group-think where it's like "this thing is decent but we've tried nothing else and are all out of ideas... so it must be broken" and gradually showing the public that they're being obtuse is a slog.

Fun fact: Fire has almost always been considered weak. It's why I played it, because I can't stand ignorant meta chasing in any game, especially when the public grasp of the meta is waaaaay off base as it is here. Fast-forward after years of obliterating people as Fire and now it's almost always mentioned in "ermagerd OP/broken power" lists (despite the fact that 99.9% of players are using it completely wrong and that its best-case performance is the exact average in every situation. So now I'll be playing Rage/Atomic/Water/Nature/Sorcery until people eventually won't shut up about how they're supposedly "ermagerd so OP" and I get disgusted and have to switch again.... Fun stuff.. Really wish players would just focus on improving their own performance instead of assuming they're God's Gift to DCUO and that anything that outperforms them is OP/broken. Similarly, players that have only done one thing (eg. Prec) and just assume it's the best despite not really knowing what everything in the game is capable of should really just learn what everything else is actually capable of.

All I'm taking away from this thread is that Ice needs a buff.

lol

^ this.

Ice needs to get the crits added back to its ice armor

Yea fire making ice look bad

You're way off the mark in both your initial suggestion and your reply. I've never debated anything on here from a personal POV. My own personal gain/loss is anecdotal and therefor trivial as is anyone else's. I've supported several changes that would negatively affect me but be better for the community as a whole. Your suggestions would remove the entire mechanic that makes gadgets different than other powers and reduce precision to being extremely underpowered, boring and unplayable in a practical sense. Additionally, it would make it so the power one chooses to play would only matter in support role and be completely inconsequential on the DPS side. "Ridiculous" is indeed an apt description of such suggestions.

For the record, I support an increase to the the cooldown as well as a slight damage decrease for taser pull. This would eliminate gadgets precision users from using it at the tail end of the stealth clip, possibly from using it with every other flurry shot and would no longer allow gadgets might users to maximize the effectiveness of the Amulet artifact in a way no other power can.

It's a joke I hope? I heard that the gadget will win a buff?