Sony/DC - you're just making it too easy for them

^^^This

Wonder Woman's ability to be a strong and courageous warrior, yet still radiate femininity and the nurturing qualities of a woman are what make her an inspiring and iconic character for women. This translates to other female heroes as well.

Also, if you read comics then you know being a Star Sapphire has nothing to do with sexual promiscuity and everything to do with having the ability to feel great love. Some of the SS were chosen based on non-romance specific love...Wonder Woman was chosen during WoTL because of her love for the planet Earth, Kryb was chosen because of the motherly love she had for her children.


And...

^^^^This.

FYI to the OP....most of the people you're talking about probably won't see this thread. And it's more than likely seeing/hearing your reaction is causing the immature comments. And you should be aware that in-game voice chat is NOT moderated, so use at your own risk. My advice to you is ignore them, find a group of friends (i.e. a league) to run with that you are comfortable with.

I'm sorry... but what?

You are promoting equal treatment, but under the condition that (in your example) females wear what men are deeming as self-respectful clothing?

Equality is indeed a 2 way street, but until there is equality the faction that is oppressed has to give jackshit, their street is filled with rubble and potholed. (generally speaking of oppression, not just feminism) Oppressed minorities are always the ones in charge to fight for themselves while the oppressors ask to be shown why they should not oppress.

And as a women on a beach I can wear what I want and I feel is suited for the situation of wanting to go swim, if it's a Bikini or booty short or a burkini... What are man wearing at the beach? I bet not suits.
You are basically saying if I wear a bikini I am asking to be harassed/provocating. No, if I'm wearing a bikini I want to go swim in it/get a tan/do it because I think makes me look good. Wanting to look good is not an invitation, engagement by eye contact/flirting etc, that is more of an invitation than clothes should ever be.
If a man wears a teeny tiny thong on the beach it's no excuse for females to comment his D either.
Existence, no matter the clothes, is no excuse for harassment. I'm pretty sure you know the flagship argument "I could walk around naked and am still not asking for it."
It's not the choice of amount of fabric I wear that needs to be regulated, it's those that can't deal with the amount of fabric that have the problem. It's not hypocrisy.

The underlined part blew it totally.
Wearing booty shorts is showing others that a female is not respecting herself? Who is saying that? Is it written on the shorts? You are generalizing based on your own assumptions, morals and beliefs. Everyone can wear whatever he wants and still have respect for themselves. And you know very well, females that choose to wear too much fabric in the eyes of (certain) societies aren't getting respect either. They are either prude or overly religious in their eyes. Now that is hypocrisy.

You have to give respect, regardless. As you said. The choice of clothes has no weight in that matter at all. Yet you give it weight.

You are part of the problem.

TL;DR: The choice of clothing is, and should not be treated as, an indicator of the amount of respect he/she deserves.

I'm not going to get into who has had more calls for what...so i'll be fair, there are equally as many calls for less revealing female attire (male and female too!)

Just thought i'd include the orignal OP statement again as so many comments are calling for people to read back. Hopefully this makes it easier

This is getting Meta!

I don't agree with you entirely but I am fully against the particular part of Crimson's post that you quoted. Unfortunately (if we take sexuality out of it) we as a society....lets just say western society and remind ourselves that that doesn't automatically mean bad....judge people on their appearances, clothes included; We wear certain clothes to work which makes a particular statement, we wear specific clothes to different occasions to symbolise different things (funerals, weddings, parties), and we have our own individual style we get to wear ONLY when we are not obligated by the previously stated duties. And then as you stated you have different clothes for different weather and particular parts of the country you are in. As you say you would judge a man for wearing a suit at a beach.....I'm at work so rushing this a bit but the point I am trying get at (badly most likely and poorly worded) is the the extreme example of 'if i'm naked i'm still not asking for it' just doesn't work. It never will because it doesn't in anyway relate to the society we live in. Its not so much the 'i'm not asking for it' bit but the assumption that no judgement can/should be made based on clothing, or non clothing for that matter. Clothing is almost 90% of the judgement of someone, fashion has shown that time and time again, Thats why we can have someone who in England would effectively be called a chav (sorry I hate that word) can now be a considered a global trend setter - David Beckham

FYI not saying i agree with this world view, its just the way it is....damn really have to post and go, sorry if it doesn't make too much sense don't get too angry, i'll be on later to rectify and explain further if needed

I don't feel there's enough revealing attire for female toons, if I wanna wear something "skimpy" I'm stuck with the same 5-6 styles that all the other "skimpy" female toons get to wear.
Now let me ask you, and your answer may be different than mine, but if you were a gorgeous bodied, indigo lantern with nothing to prove except that you're too hot for anyone to get, what would you wear?

I'm not angry at all, because what you say is true. Our society is setting the standards. That's what I don't like either.
And that's a huge core part of the problem. Being grown up in the society we live in we let ourselves be controlled by its take on "normal". And it sadly is normal that a female clothed in less fabric get's branded.
And this society also grew up to condone judgemental behaviour because of clothes. This isn't only a feminism problem, because it can basically affect everyone.
We are wearing what we see suited or are told what is suited. Somebody breaking with the perception of "normal" is bad.
And I would not negativly judge a men wearing a suit on the beach, it's be interested as in why, since I'm not used to seeing that of course. Society standards as you perfectly explained. I'd ask myself "isn't he sweating to death?" But in no way would that encourage me to treat the person bad or approach him only to give negative comments. That's what my post is about, showing up in clothes that would bring a reaction from you doesn't allow you to inappropriately approach a person.

In general it's not only about feminism, it's about being a decent person and learning beyond what one is accustomed to see as normal. Nobody of us ever stops learning. I'm pretty sure I have my fair share of ignorance in me because I yet don't know better.

Thanks everyone for the responses, both supportive and otherwise. As I said in the OP, I sort of realized it was something of a Fool's Errand, but I figured it couldn't hurt to try.

I am by no means saying that the costumes should be changed. I think everyone should be able to wear whatever they want in the game, and I apologize again if my choice of words indicated that I wanted the developers to change anything (though, again, I do think that cutscene cleavage shot was a bit much )

I will say this, though.

'Just shut up and take it, that's just the way guys are' or 'just shut off features of the game if you don't want to hear/see it' or 'games are made for guys, and guys will be guys' are, sadly, too often the reaction when someone speaks up.

I'm not a prude by any stretch of the imagination, and I have used plenty of off color language, but when someone asks me to tone it down, I respect them and try to do so. I apologize to them when I slip.

"Normal" in a game isn't what others dictate, it's what we make it to be, and if we all just keep saying 'sorry, that's normal and it's not going to change,' then nothing ever will. If, on the other hand, the community thinks this behavior is acceptable and normal and perfectly fine, so be it. I disagree, but believe me, I understand the nature of the beast.

The fact that a female character (pc or npc) is showing a lot of skin somehow means it's okay to call them skank or trick or other words that get ***** out here, imo, shouldn't be 'accepted.' As has been pointed out, women in the game (and we do exist) have just as much right to kick back and enjoy the game as the guys do.

And yes, I'm not stupid - I fully understand that it's an animated character; a colorful piece of coding in a game, yet that doesn't stop guys from commenting on what a nice rack they have, or that they like looking at that *** when they play. The 'it's just an animated piece of code' goes both ways in this discussion.

Folks on this thread have already pointed out that a woman who wears skimpy clothes like that in real life should expect this kind of thing. I'm just saying that I wish they didn't, that I'm tired of hearing about it, and so I figured I'd take that long shot of a chance and appeal to the community which, up until now, hasn't been nearly this over-the-top in my experience (started playing in October, 2010)

Of course I know that there are immature players - I've been playing video games since they began, but with this DLC, it just seemed from my perspective (which is all I had when I started this discussion) has brought out the worst in more people than usual. I know where the ignore button is, and I'm perfectly capable of just using my brain to 'ignore' people and not respond.

I guess my point is that I don't feel I should have to use that ignore option so much.

For those that are helpfully offering advice to the OP to mute the players or just ignore it - that is an unsatisfactory answer. I look at these forums and see many names and players I recognize from YEARS now of playing this game. The unique aspect of this game, for platform gamers at least, is the sense of COMMUNITY. Now, this community hasn't exactly distinguished itself since launch as a super-positive group - but here is the thing. The actions of a few are only allowed to continue by the inaction of many. It should not be the OP's job to regulate herself, but the other 5 or 6 other players in a raid to say, "hey, why don't you tone it down in here. There's a lady int he group." Or, after a warning, kick the kid/scumbag. It is easier to get along if you gp along - I get it. But that is how hate/evil/racism/sexism/ignorance is allowed to fester and grow. If you hear it - say something. Be a hero. It is a hero's game we are supposedly playing.

Speak for yourself, I am a villain to the core and Harley likessss it that way

Thats not what i meant at all. I'm using the shorts as an example, it probably wasnt the best example. Furthermore i Did not say ANYWHERE specifically that the style of dress is the determining factor for whether or not someone respects themselves. It probably came out that way but That is not what I meant. I meant that if someone, anyone appeals to anyone else enough that they make a comment on it, it would probably be best to ignore them. Why? Well you'd have to observe what they were paying attention to exactly. I said if a really attractive woman wore shorts like that, yeah guys are going to look. I draw this from being an oppressed minority myself. As a native, I have experienced difficulties all my life based on how i look what i wear ect. But rather than throwing out my disgust at people, i try to gain a better understanding of why they feel that way.

But in response to the topic at hand, That doesnt mean the woman doesnt respect herself, those sentences weren't related to eachother in that way. Like wise if Channing Tatum walked shirtless in front of girls, and they commented on that, itd be exactly the same. Basically in point, people will judge you based on what you appear as, which is the sad truth, and the only way to get them to respect you if they think that way is by your actions. I'll say it again, That post was in no way shape or form dictating how people show respect for themselves, like at all, so excuse me if i offended you.

To parallel in game, if you're wearing SS gear in front of a 13 year old hormonally challenged child they're going to make comments and speak their mind based on what they see. the only way to really combat that is to show that that type of behavior isnt warranted or worth your time. My post was not to dictate anything, its purely speaking from a guy's mindset in that example, because believe me, i've seen girls wearing booty shorts, i have looked as well, i wont lie and try to make it out like i'm an infallible angel. But because i have experienced this, I know that people will think a certain way by what they see. I also know that if you wear tight V necks (guilty), some girls will begin to think you're a total doucher who's only looking to get into their pants and its not until you either ignore them or address them head on that they begin to realize that its not true.

So yeah, I am part of the problem, as is every other person. At least i'm willing to admit it though, instead of going around calling others out on it. I won't act like i'm better than anyone else here because I know thats false. And As i've stated earlier, Respect is something that has to be earned. Even if an individual does respect themselves, other people may not feel the same way which is what this issue entails.

And they are more likely to do it in game because they will not get caught and their mother will not be happy if they say those things in front of her.

And i apologize if My example made you feel that way as that wasnt the intention. I wasnt basing this on male or female or any of the sorts expectations. I am saying that first impressions are what people label you by, which is terrible. And the only way to combat that is to show others who you truely are

dont pug and run with friends other wise your just playing a game full of hormone filled little boys and not much anyone can do about that just mute your mic and move on.

Thats what I was saying in my first post. They do it because they are behind the safety of a computer screen where they feel like nothing can hurt them. Keyboard warriors at their finest

I don't know the exact statistic - but usually the forums represent somewhere between 1-5% of the population of the game. So I'm not sure your message is being heard.

Yes the part I quoted from you was very badly written out then. You explained your point much better here. : >
And I get what you tried to convey now. And I think we actually think very much alike at some part.
It is indeed sad that we have to regulate what we want to wear because of society standards. And it's sad that, in order to get default respect by strangers we have to follow the standards.

You clearly are self-aware and understand the problem. I'd wish more could be like that. Only thing that remains that I'd disagree with you is that I have a bit different view on how respect works, or should be earned. For me respect is something that is not mainly earned, it is there by default. Just like human dignity. Nobody should have to act to gain a basic level of respect. Sure more respect can be earned, or lost by bad actions, but as we both agree, clothes should not play a factor. I'm catching myself often enough where I fail to give strangers the basic respect they deserve too. ): I'm guilty of that even tho I believe in default respect. So I think calling out ppl is actually important, it helps spreading awareness, something we all fail at sometimes.

I guess we can't do much on different opinions on respect. I understand you now, but simply disagree on that point.
As Scarlet said, this is getting way to meta! xD

Well, I guess more than anything Ghost -- as your league-mate & friend -- I want to say you've been heard. I will commit to doing better simply out of respect for you because we all know I've thrown out a few not so nice names for the ladies in pink.

That said, I feel like I've always thrown derogatory names around for the baddies when fighting them. I called Lex a few in Nexus, and that ugly one-eyed creep a few in Dox. I used some choice words for Atrocitus, Sinestro, Trigon, and really about everyone that's ever juggled me or crowd controlled me or knocked me out when I didn't want it.

The kinds of words used to describe the male toons in this game when frustration ensues have largely flown by unnoticed and without complaint. I don't feel as though an insult tossed at a female character is really any different.

In other words, I feel like I am an equal opportunity offender. I place limits only on race, religion, and sexual orientation when it comes to a slur.

Still, if it's perceived as a slight in some way, I am more than willing to be more careful.

Well said, but be honest. I'm not asking you to post it here or anywhere, just to yourself.

When you first read this, and you took it to heart as her league mate, were your first thoughts similar to the following:

Really? I offended her? I certainly didn't mean too. I was just relaxing, being myself and playing the game. I meant no disrespect and am not sure why she took offense by it. I wish she had said something to me directly. Now that I know she was offended, I will be less myself when I run with her and walk on eggshells because of it.

Additionally, when you run things with her now, if you do slip up won't you feel the need to apologize and be slightly uncomfortable as a result?

If any of this sounds like how you feel, then you know exactly why I don't say anything to the people I run with. I'd rather be uncomfortable myself, knowing they mean no disrespect and are just getting carried away in the game, rather than have both of us uncomfortable and finding them running less stuff with me as a result.

As for strangers, well, I don't have to run with them ever again if i don't want to.