Reasons why I stopped carrying people through duos, alerts, and even raids

The pug life has gotten out of hand. With almost every new player asking for a handout.

In the past I didn't care about people running the duo with me with the minimum entry CR. But now it's just sickening.

Sure I can solo DP and Wonderland duo but when I get paired up with dps that cant even put up 100k on the scoreboard, or support roles who don't even do their support role and do less than 20k damage they are just a waste of time.

Just the other day I use LFG to get into a Umr. With 2 trollers. At first I was like yay. But by the 3Rd boss I had already exceeded both trollers in power out and I'm the one healing the raid. I asked them if they have recharge in their loadout and I quote," I am giving out recharge, just in bursts".

The tank sends me a message, " I refuse to carry this group let's leave".

Keep in mind I have never even ran with this tank.

In the flash duo I get paired with a healer who just sits back and heals. They put 0 damage on the board. Halfway through I tell them you can dps I don't need a healer.

The healers response is priceless, " I am practicing my healing".
As a fellow healer I felt bad because in all their content they probably had high level players carrying them so they never got the chance to learn.

I was in DP and I saw an ice dps bottom on the scoreboard. He was 145 so I figured things were going to be fine. The run was at normal pace because we had a gadget troll, atomic dps and myself doing enough damage to compensate. When it was over I inspected the guy and he literally had no mods at all.

I went as far as to wavedox him and he had less than 70sp.

Reasons I bring this up because eventually all those players who got carried will eventually group up together do a raid and won't be able to complete it and then come here to the forums and complain resulting in said content to get nerfed.

I am all for helping new players but I can no longer take part in picking players up and carrying them up the CR ladder.

My question is how can we stop this epidemic. Because it's only a matter of time before all pve content becomes as easy as LPVE

As much as I feel you on this...you can't stop it. All you can do is refuse to run with them. I've been in groups where they have 140 CR and 50 SP. We cannot make people put in the work, we just can't.....but you know who can? The answer are the Dev's, the game whether the admit it or not is made to be fast pace and give the option to use RP's all in the name of almighty dollar. Our fight isn't against these players because the game is making them be like that. The ones that need to be listening and doing something about it are the Dev's they are the only one capable of doing something about it. All we can do is ignore them and refuse to run things but for everyone of use that do that there are enough of those would will say "**Bleep** it" and enable them further. Sorry nothing can be done with this culture unless done by the Dev's. Which will either go they helped a bit until people find ways around it or it will go terribly wrong.

Instance teleporter mods and stat clamping. Make the bums work. I don't care how controversial that topic is, it needs to get done.

I would rather have people playing than not playing.

I don't understand. He had 70 sp, according to some that's all you need and anymore is useless.

I'll agree to an extend.

If putting group together, then I will not carry unless the group is specifically made to carry or help someone.

When I will:
ie. My son, who has a toon on my account, made his own and we (League and I) are helping him speed level. He already has the skill and experience, but its a new account. So we make groups specifically with the notion thats what we are there to do.

When I wont:
When an LFG group was put together and someone is not contributing or simply standing back to be carried.

However, if I 'Queue up' for something, then I don't complain because I am choosing to go in there with a totally random group. At that point, I need to know before I enter that I am willing to give the whole thing a serious go with whatever group is given to me.

Regards,
M

Next people who thinking they are the best question is who is gona carry u now ?

It is a serious problem. One that has been around long before you decided that it is no longer acceptable. Biggest part of the problem is that players accept it. You stopped now.. if I had told you something similar 5-6 months ago you would go on the offensive. No-one ever wants to be an a-hole, everyone likes to be on a high horse calling people elitists, snobs, jerks.. and yet those people never had a problem of this nature.

I remember people going crazy over kicking players for being useless, for refusing to carry.. but if these people never struggle in completing content they will never try to be better.

A few days ago me and a league-mate had to duo DPn. In a four DD setup me ( Ice ), League-mate ( Gadgets ), random 1 ( Earth ), random 2 ( Sorcery ).
The 2 lovely randoms together did an eighth of the dmg that me and my league-mate did. At some point I realized that the Earth DD was using aftershocks to make dmg and the Sorcery one was using the watcher instead of fury because as he said, he was a hybrid DD.... when asked in a polite way WTF?? One said: "I saw it on the forums." and the other: "I'm trying out different loadouts.. I don't like cookie-cutters."

The problem is not confined among the DDs. It touches every role.

As it turns out dumbing down the game does not help in eliminating this kind of players. Controllers at large still have no clue how to give power. The trolls that are capable of doing everything that their job entails and still give enough power so that you don't have to use a soder.. ever.. are so few that you can probably count them in one hand.
I have yet to run with a Nature healer that does not over-heal. As for the other healing powers, only a handful of good healers are left. Tanks, lets say the word few does not begin to describe the amount of good ones left with any power.
And it is not far from impossible that you will never run into any of those players as they stay away from pugs/LFG and they certainly don't use random queues unless it's for things they can solo.

People always confuse coping with excelling. Being able to finish an instance does not mean you are good at what you do. It simply means that you managed to finish it.

Many will say that the problem is the lack of tutorials but guess what, the game never had any and back then it was a million times more complicated to master than now.
Tutorials are not the answer. They might be able to help a bit but they can't change content difficulty. Back then if you were good you were asked to participate, if you were bad you had no place in the group. That forced people to become better. You could not carry anyone in FoS2. You could not carry anyone in PW. Hell you could not carry anyone in those t5 alerts the first 2 months. Now all you need is 4 decent people and enough time and you can do almost every instance in the game.

Apart from content allowing and in my opinion encouraging such behavior there is another factor: Forums. A paradise for all criers, whiners and more. A place where all this is perfectly acceptable.
Can't do an instance.. No problem cry enough on the forums, if you cry people will rally up behind you and in no time problem is gone, instance nerfed and all is fine. If you argue that the instance is fine and the problem is the person that can't complete it then you are a jerk, an elitist, an evil that must be eradicated.
As long as there is a place where everything is forgiven the situation can not be fixed.

I know exactly why you are frustrated. While I don't mind carrying people through content if they are trying to contribute i have had several people just stand there and expect you to do everything while they do nothing. Unfortunately some of these people are also in LFG as I got into several groups this weekend that were infested with these type of players.

Then there are the low SP no mod class that is becoming the prevalent population in the game. When I started playing the unmodded player was the minority. I would have been ashamed to pug into a raid without mods. Now if you inspect just about anyone they have no mods and are proud of that fact.

The only real disappointment for me is these people can be the same Cr with the same gear as the most highly skilled player and never beat the content. They just have to farm first boss in most cases. The only solace that I have is they usually don't have elite gear from the raid because they can't beat regular. I ran UMR with a group mostly 148 and above, several of them had no idea on what to do, and when we beat it several in group said it was their first time.

I would say the game needs to teach players better but I know that most of the current population is unteachable and takes pride in not having mods or skill points. I know someone in a raid that kept bragging that he had only 69 skill points, he said it about a dozen times at random even though no one asked.. When trying to run hat trick this weekend the DPS said watch me I am unmodded and my sorcery dps is just as good as the modded dps we didn't get the feat and they struggled to burn the bosses. I knew the run would be unsuccessful when he said he was unmodded but stuck around anyways just for entertainment value.

Speed leveling is the main problem to this high population of player. When I first started playing I took my time through each level and learned my role as I progressed to finally getting to end game and max Cr. When I got there I had a decent amount of skill points and was fully modded. I leveled an alt last year just to see how fast I could do it and I got there without any mods and only 55 skill point in less than a month. I didn't even run most of the instances. That is the main factor that creates a high unskilled population and the main factor in my opinion why most players feel that skill points and mods are unnecessary as they didn't need them at any point when leveling. Most people are carried through instance all they way up to end game and don't even realize it.

on the mod front. they are not necessary to have and therefore shouldn't be necessary in order for a player to be effective. These instances should be made so that the baseline character should find it challenging, but doable. That being said, mod your freaking gear. Even just with betas in order to get the bonuses. Just try to be better and put some effort into it. Don't just shrug and say, it's too much work in order to do this, I'll just coast. If you have said that, you are the problem.

I got into Wasteland with a 148 Ice DPS. I'm a 152 Ice DPS and though it was going to be fast. Then I started noticing the bosss fights were taking to long. Then I noticed his Ice armor kept forming. After inspecting him I saw he was running with no mods, not even white mods, and all tank gear in DPS role. So he switched to tank after I said something. I thought hey, this might be better. Nope, he was using a DPS loadout as a tank. That was a true carry.

Lol. Now that's funny...and sad.

sensationalist type comments such as "soon PvE will be as easy as LPvE" are stupid and unnecessary. As far as mentions of SP and mods go, a terrible player will not be made good because he has full mods and 200 sp. Those things maximize the stats of the player, but they have no bearing on the players ability to play the game.

I think we all can agree that bad PUGs are way too common. I think for good players it's hard to understand how ppl are not very good. There needs to be alternative forms of progression, so that ALL players have a fun experience. I'd personally like to see a return/re-imagination of the difficulty setting as seen in the FoS raids. Normal, Hard, and elite could be the 3 settings.

As I've said before the debs have made very good raids in the past year as well as some snoozefests. Ultimately, they'll need to find a way to satisfy all players because as far as skill level goes no player group is more important than another.

Funniest thing happened the other day I got accused of being carried in a ******* duo because everything was dead before my "only good in raids with high health boss fight" power gets outclassed at almost every turn.

I don't know the tone of your comment, but it's been documented, at least for DPS, that 77 sp (maybe a few more to get certain combos) is about all you "need". The crit percentages are much more impactful to DPS than the flat and minuscule increases of 6,9 and 25 points for Might and Precision.

For me its less about cr and more about knowledge of the game and consideration for other players. If ur a low level and expect to get carried, then ur on ur own. If ur low level and dont know what ur doing and wont listen to people who do the see ya. If ur low level but have a grasp of what needs to get done and listen to advice ill help u all day.

I went into wasteland last night and got paired with a 129 tank. And im assuming its his first run because he was pkcking up all the investigations he passed. At first i was like oh crap this is gonna be a long duo. But right at the start he flew ahead and started gathering all the adds and pulling them into a group. A minute and a few time bombs later we were on to the first boss. Again he seemed to be running it for the first time when he positioned himself in the middle of the sentrys appearing to be protecting them. The first circle of adds came up. He saw me stun and burn them and he proceeded to pull the adds whenever another circle of adds popped up next.

He knew his role, how to play it, and what would benefit the group the most. If he went dps he would have never survived the first boss but as a tank he could. He watched what i was doing and saw what need to vet done and did it. It was very refreshing and enjoyable. We finished the duo in excellent time and was smoother than alot of runs ive done with 145+ partners.

My favorite DP run was with an Atomic tank that did no pulls, did not get the aura up, did not use any shield, etc..they sat behind me as the troll and the enemies lunged up. They put in group chat, why does enemies keep lunging me.

I put in group chat...because you are pulling aggro you are the tank...learn to tank with Atomic, use pulls, get your aura up, and get mods, please...

No response from that player. We get to the first boss, trolls dies as the healer, I jump over to pick him up but got knocked back by an add, healer did not pick him up. Troll went down. Tank, I mean wannabe DPS goes down. Than healer goes down. I was on my Atomic toon. I swapped to Tank, soloed the first boss, got my extra mark. I than put into group chat, Healer - learn to pick up and heal please. Troll good job trolling. Tank, WTF...go watch a utube video of an Atomic Tanking or you could have paid attention to how I tanked the first boss. JEEZ...

Before we got to the second boss...healer improved a bit and started to heal. Troll was doing his job well..Tank, I have no idea WTF they were thinking. Before the second boss I sent a tell to teh tank, sorry but you need to go. Learn your role and than play DP or any content for that matter. I got a friend to run and finish up the content with me.

I give players chances and I am willing to provide constructive feedback on performance if needed. But when a player cannot even play there role and dare ask a stupid question about why adds are jumping on them...Tand make no changes to improve their way of play after getting input they need to go.

I learned the hard way, I got kicked plenty from FOS when I was leveling up Hal. It taught me how to be more effective as a troll.

The sad part ^

What's sensationalists about that?
If you are a long time player, you've seen the watering down of...everything.
Even the first LPVEs were a challege, now it's just x.x ugh!
And PvE has been growing easier with time, no sensationalism there, just things how we see them.

---------------------------------------------------------------
That said, I lately have been also being a bit more of an elitist (if you wanna call it that way), but it's because sometimes it seems as if the players made the effort of being bad, sometimes(often) even being rude in the process.

I have a friend who is not the best dps, but he keeps asking me how to do this and that, farming feats and gathering exos, this is where you see when a player loves the game and struggles to get better at it.

Then you have the "i do what i want" crowd, who lately has gone to the hilarious extreme to openly go to lfg for "Need strong dps to carry me through -insert T1-T2 instance-" ...and the, as stated above, those guys "grow" into the 150s you find at BN standing on black holes and doing full auto at a shileded nekron, then leaving groups midfight because they died in a ridiculous way, releasing even after someone picks them up, lockig people out of bosses, etc.

And if you have the "nerve" of pming them some advice or offering help, they get offended x.x i know i've been adviced and criticized in the past, sometimes not even on pm but openly in the group and it's cool, it's a chance to improve and "get gud", but some people's egos...game-egos x.x sheesh!

Don't get me wrong, i love helping people, heck, i'll even help you farm stuff i no longer need, people i've never met usually ninja-pull me to stuff knowing i'll help them (sometimes i still wonder who tells them to ninja invite me ) but some players you routinely find begging for carries and handouts x.x it's come to a point where i can be assembling a group for an hour and if i get a tell from "them" i'd rather keep looking for another hour because i know that not running the stuff is a better fate than running with "them".

People just don't take the time to teach new players anymore. There's a modicum of interdependence when it comes to learning how to play, new controllers don't know how to double tick unless someone explains it to them. The same can be said for all the tricks of each trade.

Instead of, "i see what you're doing wrong" we have "i can't be bothered with this noob wasting my time".

I also appreciate some believe they're above learning, I've spent many PvP matches trying to conduct a pug group and there was little result over a period of time. I know it's difficult, but we cannot lay any blame at the feet of players who simply don't understand their respective roles and their functions. Nor can we blame the development team because they provide enough audiovisual information for anyone to succeed, the trick is knowing what all those audiovisual cues mean.