Nature and Weapon Mastery....

Yea we should have got out own thread in WIP that would have been nice and helped sort this stuff out. i tried to start a decent discussion here but all you get here is all the hardas* players that are just so good they can beat rage melee dps's with nature in the new alert lol.

Then the rage dps they run with are poop. Cause there is no way. Dots or not. There is no power that can beat it. Maybe come close, but never beat them. Like i said a good dps, not any dps. A good dps that goes rage and runs a certain melee loadout can destroy anything right now. The range attacks with WM are ok. Not even close to the melee damage we all can do. The melee damage that hits the hardest like 1h takes to long. The way the old DW worked was better for nature because it actually flowed really good healing and dpsing. The WM does not really flow melee wise for nature because either way dots or not we have to set a PI to get a good hit off our VP. Even then its not hitting like rage. Last be told me his chains are hitting for almost 10k with WM. The 1h WM flows really well for rage powers.

Anyway, point if any rage dps is getting beat by any other power right now they are not a good dps or running a wrong loadout.

Then the rage dps you run witb are doing it wrong. There is a loadout that will triple a avg dps. Double a good one.

Was pretty PO'd to find there were no WM combo options for nature's bug and wolf forms. The bug form receives a heal buff on par with sorcery's GSA buff. This helped with the absence of a power slot used to transform/revert. I think that if the player has unlocked a full synergy WM ability, both the wolf and bug forms should get at least 1 custom WM attack each. This will allow bug form nature users to benefit from the WM power combo bonus that reduces power cost, while compensating for the wolf form's lack of an increased modifier. Playing in human form w/nature, going full poison spread is still nice, but definitely doesn't do par damage than what my sorc toon can do. There was much more of a balance before.

Or perhaps another balancing WM factor. Any active damage dots that happen to be ticking when a WM>power combo is used will cause the dot to crit, so if you have dots going against a group of enemies and trigger WM>Power combos, you can at least boost tick damage during rotations. Perhaps limit the tick damage boost to 8 targets max.

Yea i noticed it made your dots crit to if they tick at the exact time the WM bonus goes off. When the WM bonus goes of and you have 5 dots out with sorc OMG is it awesome! Then you have nature.....

I wouldn't go that far. There's no way nature can beat rage is true. A good ice or mental has a decent chance of beating rage imo. I've even seen a good mental vs rage recently( 2 league members). The mental won.

I think a reason for the nerf is waranted. This was dropped in last min. Seems they needed a way to make electric revamp look more sexy. Respec tokens.

The devs made their decision about nature based on how good it was before WM and didn't test or compare how the other powers stacked up against it after WM was released on test. The first couple days when nature actually got the WM bonus I was comparing it to lesser powers like ice and mental and realized those 2 power with WM are side by side with nature. With ice having a slight edge over mental. I was thrilled that WM actually made other powers comparable. Then 2 days later they take the WM buff away from nature. I was thinking the the heck are the devs doing? They finally step up some other powers and now we have prob 6 top powers that are all pretty close then they take away natures bonus putting it behind?? lol like honestly who comes up with this stuff lol.

Now above is only a guess on how the dev where thinking but to me that sound pretty much what happened. I mean even if you where going to test and see if nature was "OP" with the WM bonus the few days it had it wernt long enough to even have solid and actual facts about it and definatly not enough evidence to to make such a change as they did. If they just let it play out they could have seen how other powers stacked up but instead they jumped the gun and took the bonus away for no reason. They have the power to change at any time so why not let people get their hands on it and test it, but I'm sure they know best. Heck ice gets consistent 3k hits and had dots, and on top of that can drop a super that can hit for 20k, but you know what nature has 3 dots it can keep up with that lol!!! What a joke.

Now I don't want people to think I dislike the devs that's not the case at all. What I do dislike is bad decisions and improper testing and I'm the kind of person who calls it like I see it. I don't sugar coat things. If I think you messed up I'm going to tell you.

What is all the fuss about, what exactly is nature not getting from WM, i can fathom it through all the arguing.

From what im seeing, the nature DPS in my league continue to destroy all DPS they come across regardless of the others powers before and after WM and before some smart astronaut comments on "your league must be full of bad players", "they must be beating 'noobs'" etc, me league is the best on the server PVE & PVP, their damage is ridiculous, what am I missing here?

No offense but honestly your dps aren't that good then. I could give you a list of powers i could do better with and the reasons why but its been said plenty of times in this thread i don't need to repeat it.

It is? Did your mom tell you that? lol

What you seem to be missing is any knowledge of Nature and how WM use has been limited for the powerset. Basically - if I want to use WM, I'm better off with iconic powers, like Gag Glove, rather than the few burst damage abilities Nature trees offer. And if I want to use any of the DOTs or Swarm - DOTs being the foundation of Nature - I have to use all of them because WM crits are disabled as soon as I use one, while the damage of it is pitiful by comparison.

So, basically - Nature has even less flexibility when making DPS builds, than it had before WM. Sure - there are about 2 cookie-cutter builds, which can keep up with the average WM DPS, but a good, well-geared Rage DPS will come out on top every time - and by a larger margin than before WM, because they can use WM together with all the stuff that made them OP in the first place... Virtual invincibility+Berserk SC+ WM+Outrage? Sure - no problem. Swarm+WM? Oh no - that's way OP...

lol thats exactly what i thought, Outrage and berserk are ok but swarm is just way to beast lmao!!!

Sorry, but you are wrong. The other dps powers in your league must be bad if they get beat by nature. There is just no way possible a nature dps could hang with a good rage dps. Believe me there are bad dps out there. The T6 alert really shows who the good and bad ones are. Nothing against you or your leaguemates, but if they are losing out in dps the stink.

Dear Devs:
PLAY THE GAME!!! STOP LISTENING TO THESE DAMN NOOBS CRYING FOR A NERF!!! AND ACTUALLY LISTEN TO SOMEONE WITH SOME INFLUENCE IN THE COMMUNITY OF THE POWER IN QUESTION!!! THANK YOU

P.S. CRAPPY HEALS IS A GREAT REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE NATURE COMMUNITY BOTH HEALING AND DPSING.
P.S. @CRAPPY HEALS "#NERFSORCERY HAS UNFORTUNATELY LOST ITS IRONY" IT WAS THE BACKBONE OF OUR LAUGHTER

That's blasphemous and a flat out lie. A good DPS will never get double or tripled period, maybe that rage DPS is the only good player you have seen.

It's not hard tho, imma USPS villian, ill bet what ever you want, you will not find a rage DPS that can come close to doing double the damage i can do, seriously. Open challenge.

Edit - I guess I should have said earlier i am on PS, so you would have to leave your macro's at home, as im sure with them you could widen the margin, but double or triple is still absurd.

Let me try to offer some insight here. I'll start off by saying I switch powers...a lot. Must have some form of A.D.D when it comes to this game after 3+ years of playing. Drives my league nuts but I'm sure DC loves me!

Since WM I've been Nature, Rage and Sorcery. I'm not going to say I'm OPx3OP, but I consider myself a very good DPS, team wise and definitely board wise(lost twice in the last year or so). When I was nature I still put out top numbers in anything. DPS is about the player, not the power in most runs, and a top tier DPS will always be competitive with any power thanks to wm. So I can understand why people are saying wm and nature are fine. You're probably still beating lesser skilled players like you always did. The problem is when you see the potential of other powers or you run against and equally skilled DPS using another power compared to nature.

Now rage is its own animal. Simply put, if I played myself , one using rage, one using nature my rage would beat my nature, pretty bad. I test myself by playing with people consistently and judging how much more damage I do than the other DPS, and completion time if I solo DPS. Rage destroyed in both categories. But I missed healing so I switched to sorcery.

Sorcery plays very similar to nature. The key difference is the wm bonus. I don't run a pet(unless we have no tank). The bonus you get from trans is crazy. Its not a single target bonus either. I've tried a hand full of different weapons but like the faster wm combos to get more bonuses. The difference is definitely noticeable. Shard hits hard as well

I don't think its fair nature got the shaft. If be OK if I lost the bonus using swarm, poisons though isn't right. Trust me, if you switch powers you will see a big difference. Nature is a good power, but dots and swarm aren't enough to make it top tier anymore playing against people of similar skill. Sure weapon master benefits nature, but it doesn't get the huge benefits like all the other powers. Tell all your beast nature DPS to try another power and they'll see a huge difference .

If u don't mind me asking, if your on the USPS server may u mind telling what league you are in at the moment??

Thats basically what ive been saying but some people in here are some of the best dps in the game and just can't be beat lol. I can still do good with nature but i can do alot better with some other powers. WM offers such a huge bonus and some people just don't see the potential it offers to other powers.

Lol, macros. USPS3 here man. Sorry we are heros.

Thank you. This is what i am saying. 2 dps same skill level 1 rage 1 nature. Rage wins everytime. I dont need to switch to rage to see the AWESOMENESS of it. I would love to switch, but we would be left with one healer.