Test Discussion Munitions Power

I am an avid PvP'er and have used almost all the am's in pvp at some point or another. Just today today I was gearing my rage toon and absolutely destroyed 90% of my opponents especially in group combat because one knocked down BB and i could almost full life them and get counter and immunity. Cele in 4' and 5's standing back (as most do anyways as HL, nature etc... who use am pvp) excels quite well. I can get off a mental AM rotation way more easily than munitions as well as gadg and those 2 are a pain to maintain pvp and even 1v1 also while being lunged I can recover quick enough to maintain AM. With munition I cannot at all do this. It's not viable in the least even when spamming from range in 4's and 5's because even if you are knocked down you cant recover in time to maintain it and even if you farm a knockdown or immunity the window isnt NEARLY significant enough to get an AM off. This is only the case in most all cases with munitions. Atleast with the others including the worst like mental or gadg its still viable and maybe harder than the others but still viable unlike munitions. I dont see why a simple mechanic like emp following distract for gadg cant be implemented for munitions like mini nuke/splosion after survival for example. it would give that extra punch to fill the gaps when farming in pvp for knockdowns or immunity. It would make it in the least on par with gadg or mental which is by far not the best but would at least make it viable. I agree some AM's are better than others and not all need to be the best for pvp. With that said though they should ALL be viable maybe some more so than others but viable none the less. Its not worth it to respec or make a new toon for a new player into munitions if you can only play half the game with it. Thats just silly and makes absolutely no sense for the company or the customer. Thats likely to discourage some customers and make them to quit if new cause they dont have time to level a bunch of different toons for different functions like some can. As well as in many cases with current customers they dont wanna respec a toon they cant enjoy the whole game with within reason (which will most likely happen). Thats just bad all around for company and customer alike. With that said I enjoy the pve with it and it looks phenomenal and is super fun in PvE but I just DONT only do PvE and want a fair and within reason moderately balanced chance in pvp. Which I am sure many will feel the same way and from what I hear already do feel that way. I do thank them for their hard work and dedication and this is a neat idea in theory but as whole not quite adequate for all game content.

You are doing it wrong. Bullet Frenzy buffs the damage of all your powers once it's active and you only need 3 damage dealing powers, you are using 4. So for the first rotation you posted it should be chain gun -> five barrel -> 50 cal (doesn't have to be in this order).

Celestial is not even close to the same category as HL in PvP. If a celestial person made a similar video as this you would see they have the same issue. They can get one combo off(not increased damage) and when they try to do a second one its interruptable as soon as you hit the might power. This video doesn't just apply to Munitions. This is PvP in general when it comes to AMs. The reason the devs gives for the vulnerability is because you get power back. HL is literally the only AM worth anything in pvp because it has the option to do counters just like weapon attacks. If its channeling Light Blast it has a block break option and an interrupt option. It als is the fastest at getting into its AM damage. All other power's AMs are not really viable in PvP at all and ever since WM was introduced it has been the main source of damage for every single power in competitive matches. It's one of the reason I rarely PvP anymore because you either have 1 of 2 things. A dps flying in the air trying not to be seen spamming AM(in which case he now has become the main target for everyone and he is done from their on out or HL dps/trolls comboing powers using no power and inflicting counters like normal with the DPS dealing damage matching and exceeding WM in PvP. Its so broken atm that I would go as far as to say they need to disable it give everyone the best gear and start fresh next season with some real balances.

I honestly think they've been so focused on balancing the AM damage potential, using sparring target kill times, that they've not really considered PvP. As Heavy Weapon said, PvP is pretty much about WM for most powersets. They just can't even get into the AM most times, even as a finisher, without being interrupted. Any decent player won't let you get an AM set up. As Celestial, I can burn unnoticed from range, but that works for one encounter. After that, I get focus fired as soon as I step on the map. Of course, maybe that's the way they want it: quick RPS moves with little or no AM.

It takes four seconds of continuous Bullet Frenzy attacks for Bullet Frenzy to actually start working. You could just go Chain Gun -> 5 Barrel -> 50 cal and you won't get the big hit on your first 50 cal, but when you repeat the rotation continuously you will have the big damage the second time you use it, and every time you use it in your rotation after that as long as you keep Bullet Frenzy active.

any one can tell me when is munitions is coming at least guess a date

You are right this video applies to more powersets then Munitions cause it is a issue but think outside of Am powers that is why toward the end of the video I did a loadout consisting of al non am powers and it is still out classed by a power such as Sorc or Lighting. Is Cele close to being strong as HL? of course not lol HL is king Currently, But as all you guys are saying by far munitions if released as is, would be bottom of the totem pole.

And that is the issue that is their, while I am totally fine not using WM at all in pvp, the non AM powers need to be viable, in munitions case they are not at all. The powers just don't flow with WM combos and do enough damage to keep up with pretty much any other powerset. I hope that trend can be broken soon with all powersets so we could get back to a time when most powersets were usable in pvp. The most effective way to do this imo would, be to give each powerset pvp perks to make them unique. Classes like Nature,Sorc and Elect should do enhanced DoT damage, Munitions should be non interruptible, classes like ice and fire should have def and health bonuses in any role. Things like that would be moving in the right direct in leading us away from the cookie cutter pvp sets up.

With Cele I can get off AM after knocking someone down and the stuns so ridiculous I can stun people and get it off. With munitions NOT possible just not quick enough. Nature I can get my AM off LITERALLY 98% of the time at least. Also with cele the burst damage plus dots even if they get off just one power is superior all AMs aside. Also cele in pvp AM activates quicker so can spam from flight or range in 4's and 5's easy enough. Mental I can get its AM off in 1v1 atleast half of the time and in groups I can get it off in 4's or 5's relatively easy and is not lungeable at all during one of the powers in the rotation. Also it stuns so hard sometimes requires double breakout giving ample time to get it off. Gadgets in pvp I can get off even if I am lunged and knocked down. Also I can do a tap hold WM between most of the powers except when hitting emp making it exceptionally easy to clip powers on to wm at any given time during a fight. Also with gadgets the emp after distract or dart from stealth is easy to do no AM required for heavy damage. With munitions not possible at all. Rage you can wipe someone after a BB. Munitions IF you are at range would be only time EVER you could ever get the AM off and even then the duration at which it takes to pull it off is so long it just wouldnt be viable to be done very often. PVP aside in solo like T6 PvE I get lunged and AM ruined half the time. That don't happen with none of the other powers usually in the least not nearly as often.

Not true for a match that is more than just 1v1. Even if counter someone and then try to do the AM you are able to be countered again before you can get the AM damage off. Yes it's true its faster than say Muntions to get the AM damage but as Remander pointed out you can do it once and from there on out in actual competive PvP you are the focus of everyone. Same goes for munitions. You could preload your AM damage in spawn then go out and stay back melting until they realize it then from there on out you are screwed. With Gadgets again in competitive PvP the only thing that works is Distract into Finisher because in competitive PvP you are going to get focused. \

I have updated Rocket Jump to properly grant damage absorption when used. It will also stun in Control role now. Pump Action Shotgun's tooltip has also been updated.

Chain Grenade is working as intended.

Biggun used to not need the Bullet Frenzy refresh because we were using a different animation setup but now you are right it is too long. I'll add that. However, the damage is working as intended.

Thanks for the feedback.

Here are my ideas to some changes to Munitions.

Rename 'Eye of the Tiger' - I think players will mostly associate this term with Rocky. In my opinion this is the game referring to another franchise and will not feel related to DC Universe at all.

I'm not very impressed with 'Reload'. Especially when it will come to controllers spamming this ability in alerts and raids. The sound quality is pretty poor - sounds obvious that it is a recording. Also the power in general relates to one individual reloading his weapon, in reality how would this affect an entire group of people? I think it should be changed to something like 'Call to Arms' where the character throws down a red/yellow (color depending on role maybe?) smoke grenade and a crate drops and opens in front of him and each player receiving the effect, then despawns.

Maybe change one of the dps supercharge powers to summoning a blast from a military vehicle, i.e tank, or an airstrike from a helicopter or jet. Like Strafing Run supercharge power from Light.

I think also 'Small Package' should be changed to a much heavier weapon. It doesn't look very exciting being the power at the bottom of the tree. Maybe it should be some kind of grenade. I have noticed and am quite surprised that munitions does not have any throwable powers, whereas gadgets has. There needs to be some throwables such as grenades, explosives maybe dynamite. As well, having mentioned grenades, it would be good to change 'Survival' to Smoke Grenade where the character does the same animation as 'Distract' from gadgets.

I hope if enough people vouch for my ideas, they would get noticed and taken in for consideration by developers.

all you show here is because of your loadout i think that it's pretty good for pvp the problem is pve

I honestely don't think that anyone who's decent in PvP will allow anyone of those certain powersets to perform their full AM for enhanced damage simply because of how predictable they are and how easily they can be countered. If you just queue up for arenas and beat people with certain powers and their AM it doesn't mean that the AM is viable because the people you fight can be everything from indredibly good to incredibly bad and the later is way more likely to happen. Unless I see people using those AMs in competitive PvP and actually pull it off consistently I'm not going to be convinced.

Hard light doesn't need a full am rotation just boxing gloves into the first tap, you can do 3k, also in 4v4 I run around doing my combos and knockout aleast 2 people before I get countered and I'm an acrobat. No one can do a full am rotation in pvp, unless the other person isn't really fighting.
Another power I can think of is hand clap hold and hold, that is as far I can get but I can get there.

I'm talking about the powers that have AMs that generally don't work in PvP. HL is an example of an AM that does work in PvP.

HL can do much more in pvp then the gloves into Hand Clap, the light blast combo is a lot more effective, But that is besides the point the reason I made the video wasn't just about the AM it was showing that even outside of AM powers, the damage just isn't their with munitions as you said you are doing 3k alone by using the boxing into hand clap combo which is super easy to get off. You may want to check out competitive streams. While you can't just do HL am as you please, when they are able to get them off it is by far the most effective damage that can be done in pvp currently.
This is a match showing off two of the top pvp leagues on the us ps server and not phantom is still able to pull off the hardlight combos, munitions wouldn't have a chance in hell to get off even a half of its AM
This is the video I am referring to. Game play vs 1 up
www.twitch.tv/notphantom/b/639786928

Make Rocket Jump the same cool down as Quantum Tunneling they are basically the same move.

Sorry misunderstood.
And @JUGGER I can't play the video, but I mostly clip, I don't do much arenas except for feats. 1v1 are boring because its not a challenge and 2v2 and up get annoying because alot of people are hiding in stealth or above sometimes under just waiting for you then murder you with wm.
also I didn't do boxing gloves into hand clap just boxing glove to hold range for the line power to boxing gloves.

Why do we need bullet frenzy to block break?
Its not like emp needs gadgets frenzy to block break.