Test Discussion Manacles of Force - Artifact

It's cause Fire Tanks don't think outside the box with these artifacts fire tanks are pretty much the only tank that benefits from castor's watch on the gemini artifact. Using a SC like pheromone bloom which is 2500SC for example you get a burst heal and 12 ticks of healing + the artifact proc which would be 3% of your max health every second for 6s then a burst heal for all the health is healed you for. So fire tank you are sitting at 100k+ health easy which is 3000 health a second than 18000 health after 6seconds in addition to the healing you had from the SC.

Also you can use dash attack as superspeed to proc the healing and have a 100% dmg absorption shield and prevents control effects and is 2500SC as well.

This feels like to much of a nerf. It should be Either you increase the damage taken requirement or you increase the cooldown on the manacles activation time. Having both alters it to much. This already only works for Single Hit damage instead of Accumulated Damage in X seconds. I am sure some will still slot it but many are going to write this off like they did the Lazarus water.

“Atlantis Artifacts
Manacles of Force
HP threshold for proc to be 35% Health taken.
Cooldown is no 60 seconds for ranks 80-159.
Cooldown is now 50 seconds for rank 160.”

....geez, thanks!(sarcastically)

Hello Batuba,

Just sharing my agreement with these two quotes, if something similar is done then it would make the artifact more useful. As of right now mainly the stats on it are good and the 10% shield cool down reduction somewhat.

But the main effect as it currently is setup will not get activated majority of the time. It would be more useful as a spike damage mitigation effect rather than a one hit effect, which will rarely happen in most content. This artifact shouldn't be limited to minor content (certain raids/elite) or minor occurrences (certain mechanics).

More players should have the ability to enjoy the artifacts effect in each content and not limited to a small amount that may or may not get the artifacts' effect to activate.

If it stays like this it would feel like having no effect at all most of the time from this particular artifact. I feel like a better and more useful way to get the effect of this artifact to activate a little more often would be during spike damage received within 1-2seconds (maybe 3sec) that reaches the suggested minimum health percent threshold. (As suggested in an above quote).

This would be a better suited method to get the artifacts effect to activate and serve the same purpose more or less. It will help alleviate some of the damage as intended. This way the effect can be used a little more frequently than on rare occasions. And with these recent changes it should fit well.

Though to be honest this was mainly intended to be a tank artifact and some of the changes recently made actually hurt most tanks who would have used this artifacts' effect to help alleviate some of the damage they would receive along with their normal rotation.

If there must be certain changes for particular reasons or differences perhaps a Tank Role Only portion should be setup as a separate effect and another effect portion for Any Role or certain roles with its' own separate effect portion as to not take away from the tank effect portion of the artifact. (As suggested in an above quote).

Tanks have been waiting for a real artifact for awhile now and it will be a real disappointment to see this be ruined because of another role while most roles have other/more better options to choose from. Please don't let tanks continue to suffer and wait even longer for a true tank artifact.

Thank you for your time and dedication.

Sincerely: Brav

I agree. It feels like a nerf. I was extremely hopeful that this artifact could help Fire tanking. With the way Fire is set up to tank, it was more beneficial before the adjustment. I will most likely get this artifact and hope for some changes down the road...like spike damage. It lost all appeal to me now.. It will be shelved as far as tanking for me.. Tbh....I'm just a bit disappointed.

"...more useful way to get the effect of this artifact to activate a little more often would be during spike damage received within 1-2seconds (maybe 3sec) that reaches the suggested minimum health percent threshold."

^^^^^^^^^^
THIS is needed

Lazarus water should be adjusted too. Most have dismissed it as other artifacts hold more value in their usage.

I get what your saying Chill, but what can I use (being flight) versus changing to superspeed. Does flight have a beneficial 25% SC shield? I know there is one, just dont know if its a 25% SC to use with the eye of Gemini.

All in all, I just want Fire tanking to be a bit more viable...in elite content. There are a few good Fite Tanks out there, I'm just not one of them when it comes to high end game (Elite)content. Was really hoping for a different adjustment to the MoP artifact.

Flight's 2500SC Shield is Dustoff. Unfortunately, it is incredibly awkward to use in combat since it is also an "Escape" supercharge.

Dustoff will cause the Eye of Gemini to proc, but will leave you out of position to use it.

Noted. Thanks.

OMG...THIS IS A NIGHTMARE...700k exp and 100 catalysts for a 50sec cool down? 35% on a single hit? The damage is not completely canceled, it's just coming in slower while continuing to take incoming damage. The usefulness of the MoP for tanks is severely diminished if it's left this way.

If you guys are worried about players ignoring mechanics then I suggest coding it to be split for specific roles like the Eyes of Gemini.

MoP In tank role: At 65% damage taken in 5 sec will proc an absorbtion of all incoming damage + control immunity for 5 sec at lvl 160. Then 35% of damage absorbed will be received as health over time with a 50 second cool down. THATS CLUTCH!

MoP non-tank role: current update changes.

Such a massive nerf to both this and Dead King’s Scepter.

Won’t be using either now.

Feedback
I've been testing the Manacles against various open world bosses in Damage role. The change from 25% to 35% has made it much harder to proc the Manacles. What I'm seeing is that a lot of bosses are doing a rapid set of damage ticks that are below the threshold for triggering Manacles. It is only against something like the Doomsday aura or the large Brine monster that I'm able to get the Manacles to proc reliably.

My impression of the 25%->35% change for non-tanks is that it moves the Manacles to being situationally useful. You need to have exact knowledge of the fight and what type of damage to expect. There are a lot of places now where the Manacles probably won't proc.

There is also the issue of being "too powerful" for the Manacles to proc. Your health/defense stats can be so high that a rapid set of lower CR boss attacks will be just below the threshold to trigger the proc. This will rapidly deplete your health while an entry level player will have the Manacles proc in the same situation. The Owlman bounty was a good example of this situation.

I'd still like to do Elite testing for non-tank roles, but that is a lot harder to do on a weekday on the Test server.

The artifact still seems like it will be useful for tanks for those "Uh oh! I really messed up!" moments for certain NPC attacks. It isn't something that be relied on to sustain you through a fight in all cases now.

Updated original post with upcoming changes to Manacles of Force with some number tweaks.

-UPDATE-
11/6/2018
Following changes will be coming to test servers for Manacles of Force on the next test build:

• Damage threshold to proc manacles has changed to 30% (down from 35%)
• Cooldown of Manacles at rank 160 reduced to 45 seconds (was 50 seconds)

Is it possible to have a dps/troll/heal only effects to what the artifact was initially designed to do? For dps/heal/troll roles only make it still 25% and every 30 seconds to keep other roles interested in it? And keep tanks at 60s refresh and 35%? Alotta people seem not interested at all since recent changes.

Wouldnt a damage spike within a short time period proc'ing the artifact be more beneficial. Would that not make it a desired item? If they can set it to work a bit different for just tanks it would be a must have for them. The idea behind this artifact was initially a must have. Now its a meh, maybe, maybe not. Granted I am only looking at it from a tank standpoint, specifically Fire. Having it proc on a damage spike in tank stance would make this artifact a must have. DPS, Trolls and Healers have a slew of artifacts to help balance and improve performance. Tanks....not so much. Why is it we see Rage Tanks soloing Hive Elite but not Fire or Atomic. Simply because the way they work. Earth is in a good spot, Ice handles itself pretty well, Atomic is ok. Fire gets the short end of the stick (Fire the worst) Atomic can still hold up with the right build and player behind it. Most of the struggle tanking is with Fire. Changing MoF to proc when being dealt a damage spike over 2 to 3 seconds would help Fire be more sustainable in end gane elite content. I dont want to chamge my movement mode or change to another power simply to be able to tank with my main. I'm not giving up my Fire DPS (because people sleep on Fire DPS wise) just to have a viable tank. Some may argue that Fire is fine, but we can all agree its the least desirable tank you want to see in elite content. Fire tanking took a hit with the revamp.

My request to the Devs is to change what procs the MoF in tank stance. Tank Shield cooldown times should be lowered and add a damage spike over 2 to 3 seconds to proc the MoF. Maybe even proc a Burst Heal or HoT for tank stance to help combat the massive damage taken in those inescapable damage spike moments from multiple enemies that seem to doom most Fire tanks.

Sidenote: only speaking from my PoV, and my own experience with Fire Tanking. Not speaking for everyone though some might agree.

In reality, Fire tanking defense needs to be adjusted properly, not rely on an artifact to fix innate problems.

I'm not saying your idea idea isn't a good one, because it is, just that people in general seem to be crying after this nerf because it changed an "essential" - that's what it was, no tank would be able to get into any elite group after release without it - artifact to a "beneficial" but optional one.

The thing is, wandering from optional to essential territory risks p2w concerns heavily since players can literally buy their way to superior effects over non-paying players.

That seems reasonable and I've seen similar items act that way in other games. However it could push the artifact into overpowered territory. That is what they are trying to avoid. To compensate, the initial damage trigger condition would likely be higher.

The very nature of this artifact makes it difficult to balance. Making the trigger condition and absorption too generous will make this a "must have" for anyone. Nerf the condition/absorption too much and you end up with an ineffectual artifact. It doesn't help that the tank classes all deal with incoming damage very differently. I don't envy the dev who is trying to find a middle-ground in all of this at the moment.

I agree that Fire tanking could use some help.

I'm just relating my experiences from a non-tank point of view. I can see where the current iteration would be situationally useful in certain raid content. It is still a nice artifact to have in tank role. I fear it may help out certain tank powersets more than others though.

Question
@Batuba
Any chance of getting Gadgets Battle Drone to work with Manacles? All of the other Controller group shielding supercharges have been compatible with the cooldown timer so far. It is just Battle Drone that is the exception.

I would take a defense buff for Fire Tanking over having an artifact be the solution. I'm just playing the cards I'm dealt. Artifacts have closed the gaps on some powers. Hard not to notice that.

I mean lets just have the playerbase all get this artifact and then forget what blocking means. Oh I don't need to block through mechanics anymore cause I have this artifact to ignore mechanics now. As I mentioned before skull attacks that would end up procing the artifact like the various skulls in Machine for example don't happen in less than 25 seconds so the cooldown doesn't matter in that regard.

Oh I am a dps I will just keep dpsing when a boss has a reflect skull up because I have this handy dandy artifact that will help me ignore the mechanic and I don't need to block I can keep doing dps because i'll only take 50% dmg

This is NOT what artifacts should be intended for and everyone asking for massive buffs to this artifact in particular will just use it as I mentioned above and become lazy players.

I'm not asking (intentionally) for a buff. Just something that helps sustain better. I do understand mechanics, not everyone does. My issue with Fire is blocking can be disastrous at times. Having to avoid turtle tanking and kiting is hectic (enjoyable though) I am just trying to make Fire as viable in elite content as other tanks. A defense buff for Fire would help a bunch. I am just wanting a solution to getting over run at times versus other tanking powerset.