Legends Characters Tier List

Maybe it's just me, but I'm finding it harder to actually hit the big brawling moves. The combat responsiveness changes communicate those in progress better, and I'm finding them blocked more than they used to. A Batman with bot power regen and doing Smoke Bomb can peck my Bane to death without me ever landing the big Brawling moves on them.

The important aspect about both Backfist and Launching Uppercut can fit into counter punishment where as Smoke Bomb cannot. Also remember the short combos were buffed. Characters with Ground Pound, hold melee 2x, got both hits buffed by 65% while power damage and health got buffed by 50%. So Ground Pound is now about 10% stronger than it was before.

Did anyone look at all the modified brawling characters? I know Ursa and Zod were, but Bizarro and a few others have a replacement for Punt that looks like an uppercut. The Scissor Kick, which even with getting extra buffed and made AoE is still fairly useless, that most legends have is different too.

they also got buffed.

looks like the opposite. Both CW and Cheetah's weapons got buffed by around 140% for all moves except the taps. I think they're just broken now, doing 800 damage 1-tap holds with spinning punches hitting for about the same as a smoke bomb. their ranged holds were also buffed the same.

Bizarro's Punt/Heavy Uppercut doesn't seem to have been buffed.
I don't remember what Lex's Power Blast and Faust's Arcane Blast were hitting for before, but right now they're both doing a little bit less than a meteor blast. And a lot less than a scissor kick.
Hal's ranged hold did not get buffed.
Bane's SC form elbow drop thing is doing just a little under the updated launching uppercut, so I think that got buffed but not completely sure.

To put what I was thinking another way, if most Legends got this sort of buff, I wouldn't think of it as a buff anymore. It's more like a new baseline. Just a different perspective on how to think about things. Thanks for the clarification on your counter punishment comment.

Fate is the promo character right now, so there were a ton of them in the matches I played today. His pets did seem like less of a nuisance than I'm used to. They're especially squishy if you focus one of the now stronger attacks at them.

I'd say Fate gained something from the HB changes, lost something in pet effectiveness; roughly the same. That makes the gap between him and Lex bigger. Lex got the HB buff without suffering a pet loss.

After looking through all the weapon changes, I don't see any major things to adjust just from that. Most of the HB and good Brawling characters were already near the top; 2H and Modified Brawling characters near the bottom; and MA ones tending toward the middle. Many characters who lost something really useful from pet nerfing got HB buffs to make up for it (Fate, Faust, Circe).

Number wise, I think the relative impact of the shielding and absorption changes (which are relative to the increases to outgoing damage) are a lot more important to balance. Before the update, someone predicted that the whole shield using Lantern roster was going to bounce downward. I'm not going to get into that here; I'm trying to consume the impact of the combat and pet changes first.

Shiny summarized things for general combat at https://forums.station.sony.com/dcu...on-mastery-edition.210326/page-6#post-3239061 and the comparison chart at http://i.imgur.com/0x4lfqz.png is particularly useful. I also read the latest Balance Legends Initiative comments.

The typical weapon saw about half its combos increase by ~65%. A few already mentioned received much better buffs, going above 100%. And there are some weapons where there are clearly buffed attacks, but only a few or less practical ones to use in a competitive Legends PVP match.

From most improved to most nerfed (relative to the average), I'd break them down like this:

• Strong improvement: Hand Blasters, Brawling, Modified Martial Arts (Cheetah, Catwoman)
• Mild improvement: Martial Arts (Smoke Bomb), Dual Pistol (Full Auto, Magnum Round)
• Improvement mainly in less practical attacks: 1H (Flip Slash), Shield (Handspring Kick)
• Average change: Bow, Rifle, Staff
• No improvements in really useful attacks: 2H (buffed Mega Smash), DW (buffed very long tap attacks), Modified Brawling (General Zod, Ursa, Power Girl)

Only a few characters pop out of all that making me reconsider them:

• Joker, Arkham Joker: nerfed pets hurt here with no weapon offset. Bad enough to drop down a tier section?
• Cheetah: better burst. Really still not competitive with the also buffed Upper Mid characters.
• Nightwing: less competitive in damage relative to the buffed Brawling Lower Mid characters. Damage was never his strong point anyway.
• Superman, Power Girl: up into Upper Low based on Brawling improvement?
• Guy Gardner, Harley Quinn: down into Low based on 2H weakness?

Exact sorting in the "Kryptonian ghetto" of the lowest tiers is not an exciting topic to me. Adjusting how the middle tier lanterns are placed seems more relevant to players interested in this guide.

I think Superman and Power Girl would be boosted up more based on the fact that the entirety of upper low got nerfed and Saint Walker is the only other low tier character not to get nerfed. Hal got buffed with Brawling, but his blockbreaker wasn't buffed on top of the fact that it is still bugged so he might be a little worse.

To pop up into Lower Mid, Superman and Power Girl would need to be competitive with Arkillo and Kilowog--who got the same brawling buffs too. I don't see that based on how much better Jackhammer and Roar are than those lame spinning attacks. If I'm at low health and an Arkillo counters me, I can expect a finishing move or Jackhammer bounces until I'm dead. There's no counter punishment like that coming from Supes.

I don't get why harley is in such a low tier well used she can hit so hard. Now even more with stealth and two-handed's mega smash buffed; stealth's surprise attack hits around 1,5K and mega smash around 2K.

Health was buffed. Mega smash is laughably hard to use. Two handed is one of the worst PvP weapons in the game.

I agree. And although Arkillo's ring blast does extra damage @ 35%, which I've heard is just a crappier version of Battle Roar, it's still better than using swoop attack all the time with Supes/Power.

Did some scrims withAhri, Brice, and SeeMe, mostly used Cheetah, in one of our scrims I managed to kill Brice for the win with a lunge on zerk. It did over 2k in damage. No critical, no counter, just zerk.

I think it's safe to say that in the right hands Cheetah is Upper Mid tier at this point. That weapon buff has given her some serious damage potential if the opponent is not careful.

Aren't they both modified MA? Their eye beam doesn't seem to AE like shuriken storm does though.

; .

I was following the terminology of the guides that call it that or "heavily modified brawling", such as this one: https://forums.station.sony.com/dcu...s-pvp-guide-your-favorite-character-s.192534/

The lunge, back fist, and haymaker are the most similar moves to standard brawling. That's half of Zod and Ursa's melee attacks.

Speaking of those two...after feedback here on the forums, playing a good bit since the big update, and watching other people's matches, I'm applying the following changes:

• Superman, Power Girl: up into Upper Low (brawling improvement)
• General Zod, Ursa: down into Low (modified brawling is somehow even worse)
• Cheetah: up into Upper Mid (modified MA buffs combine well with mad zerking power)
• Catwoman: up into Top (modified MA buffs)

Maybe the last one is controversial. The "nerf Catwoman" commentary all over the forums seems to lump her in with Shazam now. The last FNL I watched was like the Catwoman show. And my own matches against terrible Catwoman players have the same feel to me now as playing a terrible Two Face. I win, but someone who gets minimal counters should not be that strong.

Ok that makes sense, thank you for clearing that up

I wouldn't lump her in with Shazam at all. She's good, but shazam basically nullifies all counter punishment.

Also I'd consider moving all the two handed characters to low tier. Still up in the air with Superman&company being upper low

I was looking for a second opinion on Catwoman; I just put her back to where she was.

For me, the low tier characters have zero redeeming qualities. Brawling was buffed just enough to give it mediocre weapon counter punishment. Shiny said Backfist was buffed in the second round of weapon changes by 116%, so almost twice as much as the 65% of most combos.

Here in Playstation land where Superman sells in mad quantities, he's all over the place in small matches, and I'm really feeling that change. A Superman can actually knock me out now if I'm eating lunch while I play. I do not put down the potato chips against Zod, Ursa, Steel, or Stain Walker. (What a fantastic typo)

Harley rises above worthless with all that health. Guy Gardner gets OK health, a useful shield, and a power tray that's all knockdown, stun, and panic. Maybe those things don't matter in the more competitive matches. I just don't dread playing them the way I do Steel.

Yea, that buff is literally the only reason why they might be upper low tier now.

In regards to the two handed characters the weapon itself has actually surpassed dual pistols as the worst weapon because it's taps are worthless and the amount of time you need to expose yourself to counters to deal decent damage is, well, to quote Harley, "that's nutzo".

You used to sort of be able to use taps to steadily wear someone down, but now those attacks are borderline worthless.

Me and Venge were talking about Legends the other day and this is what me and him agreed on in the end. Worth noting we obviously simplified it instead of having 7 different Tiered Legends we just went with 5. Pretty much the scale works as:

T1 = Over-powered and should be toned down quite a bit
T2 = A wee bit too strong but close to balanced
T3 = Balanced
T4 = Almost balanced but a little weak
T5 = Under-powered and should be toned up quite a bit

T1: Shazam, Catwoman, Lex, Two-Face, Bane, Bizarro
T2: Wonder Woman, Circe, Cheetah
T3: Faust, Kyle, Amon-Sur, Batman, Nightwing, Robin, Atrocitus, Dr. Fate, Supergirl
T4: Deathstroke, Huntress, Ursa, Joker, Hal, Wondergirl, Sinestro
T5: Steel, Harley, Guy Gardner, Saint Walker, Kilowag, Arkillo, Green Arrow, Superman, Powergirl, Zod, Arkham Joker

*Fix Hal's BB and he'd be T3.
*Amon-Sur is borderline T2 because of the amount of safe damage he can do.

Obviously in the end it is all a matter of opinion, but that's what me and Venge felt where the Legend characters fell after talking about it.

Yea, there's quite a bit here I'd change. I'd hesitate to call Faust balanced because of handblasters. I really wouldn't push Hal being balanced either. His strafing jet attack is just pitiful. If that was upped then I could call him mid tier.

I might say Sinestro is balanced. Clutch and I talked a while ago about that and prior to him showing me some stuff with him I was under the impression he could have used a slight health buff. Like Faust (though to a lesser degree) he's got a lot of AoE damage. Plus his weapon's bb if jc'd let's you catch rolling.

Of course there's more but I'm on my phone