Lazarus Pit Water - Rage of Lazarus has got to go.

Hmm...

Remember, the devs can change the mechanics of any item as they see fit (via the EULA and/or the TOS) without monetary recompense; no use in asking for your money back when these changes are made because it's not gonna happen, whether or not those changes affect your playstyle.

Your statement "Over half of those arts are useless without art swapping..." brings up a couple of questions.

Why bother leveling up those artifacts if they are useless on their own, especially if and when better versions are/become available?

What content do you need to tac swap those "useless" artifacts in order to get through it?

You don't need to tac swap in order to complete anything on any level, as the devs did not make it a necessary mechanic or ever announce that it is. Tac swapping is a player discovered mechanic; trying to shame others for not "choosing" to use it doesn't work for anyone and stifles any movement toward a solution.

Pointing out the advantages/disadvantages and discussing whether or not it upsets the balance of gameplay mechanics works towards finding a solution.

Now you're just being silly. Everyone knows that DCUO isn't optional. DCUO is life.

Gonna elaborate more on this idea, as I think it will still make artifact swapping worthwhile but at the same time certain things won't be broken due to passives remaining intact or becoming broken in the process.

Examples:

1. Lazarus Pit Water: If you swap this in then swap it out and take large damage shortly after, you will be KO'd rather than remain at 1 HP and immune. You will also not be able to revive yourself.

2. Philosopher's Stone: If you swap this in and use supply drop while this is equipped, the extended range/buff/animation of supply drop will apply. If you swap it out too soon any additional animation/buff will be immediately stopped the moment the artifact is no longer equipped.

3. Cog/Tetra: If you swap one of these in, use an ability and then swap back out, the buff from these will only last as long as the artifact is equipped. The minute the equipped artifact is no longer equipped the buff will immediately stop.

4. Scrap of the Soul Cloak: If you swap this in (at rank 200) and then use a supercharge, you will still get 7% supercharge back. However when this artifact is no longer equipped your supercharge regeneration and how much supercharge you have will return to what it would be normally without the effects of Scrap of the Soul Cloak.

5. Pied Piper's Flute: Will still apply as long as you have the artifact equipped. The minute it is taken off the extra damage over time from the rats after using a supercharge will immediately stop.

6. Eye of Gemini:

Pollux's Gaze: If Eye of Gemini is equipped this will still buff damage for players stood in it, and if on for long enough will still apply the proc of extra damage. If EOG is swapped out too early the animation/buff will be immediately cancelled and there will be no extra damage proc.

Castor's Watch: If Eye of Gemini is equipped this will still generate supercharge for player's stood close to the user. If Eye Of Gemini is swapped out midway through the extra SC regeneration will stop along with the green circle.

In short, any artifacts tied to a particular ability (like a supercharge upon usage) won't be affected much provided the artifact is equipped at the time. However any arts that add a debuff or buff passive, or anything that procs over time may be significantly affected, or at the very least require more consideration with how long the artifact is equipped for.

First i know the EULA and terms of service and understand that the devs can make the changes at any time and theres nothing i can do about it. As for upgrading the useless artifacts i leveled them knowing i could tac swap them and that they wouldn't be useless like that. And finally like in my first post like i said i don't appreciate people coming on here crying about tac swapping when it is something they don't have to do but have the freedom to. Like you said its not required to get you through content so all the players crying on here saying they were told they have to art swap either are just jumping on a bandwagon they don't know where it leads, or they are just hanging around the wrong players and only see the bad side of the game.

The problem here is akin to power creep in games (which the clamp was meant to solve). What we have here is “elite creep”

Was tac swapping necessary? Whether it was or not, some players use it. Then they complain loudly that content is too easy. Then the devs respond with Elite critical and Elite +. Then more tac swapping. Then more complaining. Then one day there will be Elite ++. It won’t end until tac swapping is absolutely necessary (and many argue that we are already there - and I believe they’re right).

The old system of out-gearing content was the pressure valve. If people were patient, they would get their chance years later to play all content in an enjoyable manner. But DCUO chose elite creep, and eventually that may be their only player base.

The largest problem with tac swapping is really how it is dividing the community. Extra buffs and damage are a good thing. Having something to use other mostly meh artifacts is a good thing. Telling other players how to play is a bad thing. Kicking other players because they won’t play your way is a bad thing. But here goes yet another “actions have consequences” story. Either in this thread or another, a player commented how they quit the game due to too many people they knew trying to force them to swap. I’m sure many have noticed how hard it already is to find roles in this game. It gets much much harder when you start dictating how they have to play because the pool of possible players shrinks more and more. At some point, there will literally be no random tanks, trolls, or healers left to play with if you’re trying to build an lfg group.

I can honestly say most players are already seeing it. Read thru lfg shouts and you’ll see the ones asking for particular setups shouting for 30-45mins before filling that role. Because a lot of us aren’t willing or wanting to tac swap. My troll is 605sp/ full elite gear and 3 200s buff troll. I don’t have a cog. He’s an alt. He may or may not get one. I see need buff troll shouts and I ignore them. My ice tank has 5 or 6 200s and the same sp and all the elite gear and whatever and nope, not responding to lfg because I know how the community is towards tanks. I’ll watch people shout for an hour that they need a tank. Rather go run thru event level of I need the marks. If I need renown, I’m happy I know enough people to not have to run with randoms. Healer toons, same deal. I can triple EoG with both of them but still not joining an lfg group unless I know the person shouting.

Every day that players try to push the swap meta is another day that a player decides that this game costs too much to play or that they don’t want to play in their inventory. If someone wants to swap, great. If they don’t yet are still doing their job then players need to zip it/ suck it up and have some fun instead of caring that the fight will take 6mins longer. Or they can at least stop complaining that all the roles have disappeared. Just one long term player’s opinion. I’ll tac swap when I feel like it, not when someone tells me to. Wouldn’t need to kick me tho cuz I’ll have already left if I ended up in a group that’s only average cuz they swap.

That would be your own fault for relying on an unintended system then. Also, the way you make artifact swapping sound really just sounds like you "p2w" for real... Strangely enough

Wow well spoken good to see more and more talking about the effects that art swap has on the content.

I have the same issue with my troll alt. I have Tetra at 200 and Cog at 140 and I know I probably won't ever buff troll elite because most DPS at endgame are precision.

I'm not a fan of controller personally, but even if I was I have to level Cog to cater to the precision DPS to be more considered for groups.

(I'm Team Might)

The thing is that.. well that type of behavior is going to exist regardless of tac swapping staying or getting removed. When SM comes out people look more for ice tanks than other tanks. Players will want EoG healers even with swapping removed. Players will still expect trolls to buff them even if swapping is removed. That is not an issue with swapping but the community in general. People will still find ways to blame the tanks and healers when things go wrong. Players will still talk down to dps with lower burn. Players will still kick players for trivial reasons. People will still lfg for hours looking for someone that accepts their requirements instead of picking someone available than and there.

This behavior has been a thing before swapping. This will still be there after. Toxic players will be toxic regardless.

Yeah, we’ll now if you want to be allowed to troll random elite groups you need bop, claw, amulet, tetra, cog, scrap, EoG, philo, and dks. Wait no, I’m missing some cuz it’s like a dozen. But simple fix, don’t run lfg groups. We don’t allow prec into most of our groups since might is right haha. We all have might only buff troll alts, one of the usuals has cog also but not bop and some of the others so he just doesn’t troll anymore. So that’s about 7-8 of us just in one chat that are all 600+ sp/ 200s basic buff trolls that won’t answer an lfg shout/ troll pug groups

Still waiting on you to provide the proof of how much of a difference tac swapping does.

Anything else?

Unintended system?? Are you a dev, im pretty sure your not so who are you to say its unintended. Were you with the devs when they decided to allow us to change gear in combat? Also should that be locked also since swapping arts is unintended? And so what if im p2w its my choice what to do with my money and also for the record every single one of my arts was upgraded during double xp and alot of farming xp went on hence why im upset about this topic because alot of blood sweat and tears went into upgrading all those arts. Have you ever saved up 3 million xp from farming for 2x xp just to get 6 million xp out of it? I see most people dumping xp in as they get it instead of being patient the main reason why some players can't catch up is impatience.

Oh, 100%. But adding to it is seeming to make it exponentially worse. Prior to tac swapping, yeah of course there were still meta chasing groups but it was at least less… something. I’m trying to find the right word/ descriptor. Basically I’m saying that players forcing swapping vs forcing the normal meta is a larger problem because of the costs associated with it. If a player hears they need to switch an arti to another to be in the meta, they aren’t nearly as put off as “you need this this this this and that and to be in your inventory every 6secs”. Toxic is life in video games. Always will be. This is more along the lines of spoiled than toxic. And that’s maybe the word I was looking for, those trying to force tac swapping are spoiled (brats/ children/ choose your own)

Unintended was the exact word used by the devs in an earlier post/ conversation about tac swapping. That same post has their answer to about what they intend to do about swapping. Which was/ is nothing as of now.

Nope that’s all. I mean.. for someone who claims that there’s a huge difference to the point that the devs need to get involved you sure can’t seem to back up your claims with proof. Even after I laid out an easy way to test.

Okay have fun with that.

I’ve still never been asked to tac swap on any of my toons. I’ve also never been kicked for not doing so. I’ve had groups not inv my troll for not having the 3 arts they wanted. But not for not swapping arts in general. Not saying it doesn’t happen because I know very well how this community is. But I think some in here like zNot over exaggerate on purpose to try and drive their agendas.

My point is that there will always be some level of gate keeping by a minority. Than there will be some level of group mentality but a larger percent of the population. I remember back in the day powers used to have their dots override so players had to look for players of different power sets. You than had some power sets that also weren’t that good either. So people would look for specific power set dps. All to get into a raid where people in general struggled to even beat lol.

I personally do not tac swap. I find no appeal to doing so. So I just won’t do it. But because the game has become so easy I can understand why some want to add that extra bit of skill back into the game. So I’m against the all out removal of swapping. Is there a middle ground? I do believe so. But people in this community live in absolutes lol

So I assume you are incapable of providing said proof that you claim is there lol.