I like how you only mention the parses on single target, and it's an AoE combo xD End game, me and others are parsing 60k+ on 3 targets and Rev even has it posted in the guide section. Every melee weapon combo in the game has to deal with adds being dragged away by a tank and bringing up that situation actually hurts your argument for 2H because it's the only mobile melee weapon combo in the game that can move freely to follow adds. It also seems that people don't remember that after getting knocked down and breaking out you have an immunity which makes the majority of the next doom spin impossible to interrupt. Those blocks are also non-existent for easily controlled adds that existed in Hive/Machine/Throne/CoT/FoA/SG. We get 1 dlc in the last year where melee dps's can die and adds have cc resistance and people seem to forget what adds in the majority of raid content behave like.
From my own testing, 60k+ on 3 targets was only possible when I was using some might abilities in conjunction with doom spin. Rev demonstrated that as well in his video. Doom spin alone netted me around 25-27k on 3 targets.
dps accuracy is so difficult to carry? I have been playing this game since 2011 and it is now when it is easier to carry a precision dps. When put other survival ¿what dps will they askfor ? Everybody to ask for precision,dps precision have to lower it more.
I like it how you refer to “someone” who said or “posted” something and not speak from an actual experience. The combo is short and to get it off you have to do a tap and 3 consecutive holds and have the adds lined up for you there. You won’t even be connecting to most adds because in this content even tanks don’t melee the adds. Most hits won’t even connect to the adds, you’d know had you actually tried. What adds exactly are you going to melee? behemoths and shardlings? Robins who run all over the place and do backflips like 100feet back? Oh nvm, at least you can melee the bosses like merciless/red death or maybe satyr bards or phoenixes/cyclops in FI or elite. In reg, odds are you will get outdps’d by a mediocre at best might earth/rage versus doom spin which you are not even guaranteed to get off in the first place. You mentioned mobility, are you joking me? First 3 imputs take awhile to get off and last hold combo only makes you spin for 3-4 seconds. I’d understand had it hit for 25k on multiple targets but it hits and sometimes even misses a dummy hitting like 3-4 out of 5 ticks for 10k a tick. Idk why the devs even listen to people who have no idea what they’re talking about then nerf everything to the oblivion. Prec users should only be the ones providing feedback and do the testing. All the complaints come from casual might players after seeing a dummy parse on youtube and jumped on a bandwagon of hate. Yes it does take more skill to use prec, I’ll say it again. Your argument would hold some merit if you were comparing parses on forge weapons versus regular melee might; assuming you were on point with clipping and combo imputs etc I doubt even then you’d parse much higher if all than rage or earth since they’d spam their supers a lot more frequent using sc gens than don’t affect them
You mean might ability*. All you need is a dot w/ the weapon buff to reach 60k and that's all Rev had. That's standard for any prec loadout to have a might move you clip with the buff. And 1 might based dot as a prec primary spec does not equate to 35k dps being added for you to be parsing 25-27k end game from the weapon combo itself. I don't even know why you're trying that horrible lie.
2H is my home-row weapon; I've been using Doom Spin specifically as my primary weapon attack for my Electric since Electric still sucked - set up DOT, lawnmow, DOT, lawnmow - so I know exactly what it's good at and what it's not good at because I've been practicing for years. I also know I'm using it correctly; that being said? The magic of using Doom Spin as a benchmark for damage consistency is that it's not really a clippable or cancelable combo; in that clipping or cancelling it doesn't really significantly alter the damage output it provides in a rotation. You can change DW - > Flurry output, and lots of Might powerset outputs by jump cancelling. Doom Spin's damage fluctuation basically only comes from critical hit variations and whether or not VWD is currently active. It's fairly inflexible in that respect. It's not as mobile as you're making it out to be either - it allows you to change direction, granted, but it does so fairly slowly, and there are lots of other combos that cover more actual distance in a shorter actual time, while also attacking. Representing it as an "unfairly superior combo" because of that ability is misrepresenting that actual level of mobility, especially considering the amount of distance a Tank pull can potentially cover. Besides, when I really need to travel, I stop the combo, then Lunge. Pretty sure everyone else here is doing that too, with literally any weapon. So I don't think it qualifies as a dealbreaker. Additionally - while Breakout and Breakout related abilities (Grandeur comes to mind) do provide temporary control immunity, thereby making a subsequent counter impossible for the next few seconds, it doesn't change the fact that the combo still gets countered pretty easily and pretty frequently, as there's not really an effective way to maintain continuous Control immunity. I know this because Enquirer asked me to write an FAQ about that very subject. It's still on my desk instead of present in the forum here because I was also writing my first novel at the time and Enquirer left after PVP's Counter system continued to be unrepaired, thereby making the subject of Counter Immunity in a PVP setting a fairly moot point. Which doesn't mean it's not good to know, it's just not "game changing stuff" any more, and like I said - novel. As the subject of Countering applies to Doom Spin, specifically, you can stop it on the first hit by Blocking since it activates with a Lunge, and can counter it at any other point once the spin itself starts by Blocking. DPSing using this method basically means non-stop starting over. While you CAN counter Ranged Precision by Lunging, you can't counter Might attacks with pretty much anything now as a result of the post-AM rework; Empowered Channeling (when it's not broken, anyway) actively and directly prevents the most vulnerable class of Might-based Abilities from being interrupted. That factor, plus the actual conditions of survivability at ground zero of a Raid Boss, the addition of ingame attacks that ignore Shields, and the fact that you're not always going to have a Tank to pull aggro means that Doom Spin is a prime candidate for risk / reward consideration. It SHOULD be coming out a little hot, period. I would also love to know where you're getting 60K from as a rotation number too, because sure, it CAN do that - every now and again for about 6 seconds at a time, if you have a Trinket and Supply Drop active at the same time. It doesn't do it consistently, and not without a good deal of buffing beforehand - I'm doing my testing on live because "that's where actual combat happens", and sitting at 277 CR, 242 SP with 22.2K standing Precision, a 245 CR weapon, and a 163 VWD. Not quite full-course end-game, but really, really close. That extra 8 CR is not going to increase my output by 50%. My actual tested rotation average is right at 39K, as of "today, earlier this morning when I started typing a response and figured I'd do the actual math, because 60K seemed a little high". It's usually 40-ish, but I got a little drunk last night so I'm moving a bit slow today. An extra 90 SP worth of Precision and an extra 2% on the VWD seems like it's unlikely to account for a 50% jump in performance. I think, with a Controller providing constant additional Precision and/or a defense debuff, it *might* break 50, consistently, in a test scenario. I've been using the 20% bonus from the Supply Drop to roughly simulate the effects of a Controller, and it spikes to about 47-49K during that time period. As for Controller inclusion - you're not always going to have a controller around, the Defense Debuff and Precision / Weaponization buff from Group Power Burst isn't always going to be active, and - as they say - a rising tide raises all ships; so it's not like the Precision bonus or Defense removal *only* helps Doom Spin; that affects literally everyone in the group. All of that aside... Regardless of what the parser says in a test environment - live play says two things : A.) You're not going to get a sustained parser-tested output level from the combo in live play. I would say 90% of the time it does less damage; which was borne out by testing in a live play setting earlier today. Getting sparring target level damage out of it is not a realistic expectation of how the combo actually works in live play. I'm walking around, non-stop, with a parser open to see exactly what it's doing - and it's doing better than it used to, sure, but if you're doing a 40K rotation on the three-set AOE test sparring targets? You're doing 39-38 at best against real ones, roughly 25 as an average, and usually around 10-15 for any sustained engagement scenario (combat lasting more than 15 seconds, usually large add groups, dense add population, and boss fights). That's a 37 to 70% drop-off from what the parser is saying on the AOE three-target set in the League Hall testing area. These are NOT arbitrary numbers either : I've been doing the actual math, and though I did guess at the 40K amount initially? 14 sets of 10 second parses on the three AOE dummies says 39,176, and I know I messed up one rotation during that set. So I feel good about my 40K estimate. 20 sets of actual combat length parses in a live-play instance dropped me off at an average 24,767 damage; for sustained combat sequences I had a 59, 29, 24, and 17 second parse in that set of 20, where the average between those four was 12425. *TWO* of those parse totals from the entire set matched the original 39K performance benchmark, and those were both under three seconds a piece. Additionally, these were collected in a Metal content instance, so some additional padding occurred from the standing 5% Precision bonus from the Resonator I have equipped, and I'm also using Legionnaire's so I'm legitimately benefiting from a minimum of 1100 extra standing Precision in a live test setting. I stopped using Cog because no Cross Weapon Combo = no Precision bonus. Finally, since "live play", I'm also including semi-regular use of things like Supply Drop, Combat Trinket, and Orbital (though my one orbital was definitely a misfire so did not contribute meaningfully to overall performance in this testing session). The point of all this being less "oh, it's a 40K rotation" and more that "the rotation's performance drop-off in a live setting is between 37 and 70%". So regardless of whether or not you're getting a 60K rotation on a dummy, those numbers aren't translating to live performance literally 90% of the time - simply enough, it's not actually doing that in the field. B.) There are a ton of situations where it's simply not catching up to Might powers in a practical setting because of the limitations of what it can do - mostly because of the range at which it operates, and the fact that it can be disrupted easily. I'm still not beating HL jump cancel / clap spam output with it (and yes, I know there's more to HL damage output than jumping and clapping, but that's what it looks like from the cheap seats so ). Not when it counts. Which is fine, because there shouldn't be any universal answers, but comparison of parser results is not an acceptable representation of actual performance because of those factors : Might based combat scales differently than Melee Precision, primarily because you're not getting Countered every 6 seconds. Using the same testing method and requirements (though on a MUCH weaker Character, Galvana is still only 166, has 50 less SP, but does have a level 80 Tetrahedron) the drop-off from parser goals to damage in overall combat was around 40%; a little higher than the Precision drop-off, at a glance, but basically the same general boat. However - the drop-off in sustained combat situations from parser expectations with Might Only was an average 52%, usually lower, whereas the Precision Melee drop-off was 70% at an average, and in a couple of the test parses, closer to 80%. Raids are the definition of a sustained combat situation. In a set of circumstances like that, if you can expect to keep half of your overall parser DPS output in a live-play setting, as opposed to keeping between a quarter and a third of that amount, then if your actual rotation is performing the same, you're automatically going to be sustaining a higher output. In fact, at that big of a disparity it's possible to get the same actual performance from a rotation that's dealing 35% less overall damage in a test situation. Might can do the same amount of overall actual damage in a live situation because of those two factors - relative lack of interruption and the ability to deal consistent damage at range. And I know this because I just spent the last five hours doing the math. I'd really prefer not to see people rushing off to destroy what is essentially one of three decent Precision performers because it runs a little hot on a test parse, because I guarantee you that's not what you're actually seeing in a completely live setting. This is actually the first time .... pretty much ever that I've been able to play a Melee Precision character that was potentially viable in an end-game setting, so I definitely have a horse in this race - but in the interest of fairness I figured I'd run some numbers and see what I got. Balance, as it stands, hasn't been taking into account the major differences between Might and Precision, especially Melee Precision. Since it's not a Range combo? That Risk Reward factor that justifies the Rage output disparity also applies here. At any rate - more testing upcoming, but that's what I learned today. I'll be working on getting my alts to endgame performance range next so I can run side-by-sides. To be continued.
You're not end game at all by a stupid far amount. You're literally 2.5 dlc's behind. I had 23.5k prec in Atlantis. Live server for current dlc is 29-31k Prec standard for end game. 2:48 - 29,756 Prec 56600 53465 67164 44852 67075 67141 49138 68636 60139 63845 68978 62472 Avg: 60792.083333333
You know, people might be more willing to entertain what's coming out of your mouth if you were a bit less snotty about it. Something to consider. Also, congratulations - you're still not successfully disputing literally anything else I said, but good job beating the crap out of the sparring target. And you're using Rage to do it, which is a super-broken power. Of course it must be Doom Spin's fault.
Not my toon*. I'm gadgets. And Rage is only super-broken from the Zerk supercharge being a double Neo-Venom Boost mathematically. Without supercharge it loses in parsing to anything that has something extra such as Ice (2 snow devils), Sorc & Earth (stronger pets than Robot Sidekick), Quantum (Time Bomb), Nature (passive dots), Water (VWD resets). Someone just sounds mad they're not at end game and wants to blame a powerset when the only thing used is a basic dot. There's no point in even responding to your other points when you're not at end game stats. Your damage standards are going to be significantly different, and with low stats, I know you can't be doing comparisons with high-end might/other high-end prec dps's. If you can't produce competitive damage to compare parses and performances to other weapons as well as powersets/spec's from other players whether from LFG or other leagues, there's nothing productive to be had in this discussion. We can re-open dialogue when you reach end game stats or when you've parsed out every other weapon in the game to know where 2H stands among them currently. P.S. - I don't need you to entertain. Your heels were dug in as soon as you misinterpreted my post, and your defensive nature now has a public justification at least. My job isn't to convince you. It's to at least give the devs an idea when they're breaking the game so the community can at least hold them accountable for when they do it on purpose.
Whatever bro. I think you're coming back to "stats stats stats" so you don't have to address the fact that the math is going to work the same no matter what the actual Precision total is. The amount might be important, sure, but the fact remains that the way damage is handled works differently when you're using Might versus Precision as the main source of output. That's like, right up there in triplicate. If you're just going to come back to "but the parser says", then you're still not looking at the whole story, period. But have fun stompy feeting about it all the same.
Which is why I put this: Go get weapons from a vendor, parse out different combos and then come back. I can replicate whatever you get, and we can discuss from there.
Retested 2-handed. Some of the moves got a stealth buff since my last round. Arrow Storm is about right now-- roughly the same as SS mastery. Doomspin is about right for the risk of being interrupted. A little bit stronger than Brawling's Haymaker. Clobber and Spinning Punch Mastery are still weak by about 10-15%
I don’t test weapons with end-game stats. When I test, I remove all my artifacts and I don’t use hand, neck, or chest mods. This is why my numbers are what they are. When I want to test the full strength of my character, then I’ll test with end-game stats. Sorry, I wasn’t detailed enough before, but I wasn’t lying.
Brawling's Haymaker Mastery Point is bugged. Brawling tap only dps gets increased by 10% from the mastery point as does uppercut dps. However, when you go to Haymaker and parse out, you end up with a 23% dps increase from putting in the point. The weird part is that the hit counter changes. Without the weapon mastery point, just using Haymaker by itself (no pets, no white mods etc.), you get 222 hits showing in a 60s read. That hit counter goes up to 249 with the mastery point in doing the exact same thing. More interestingly, going back to the footage, the actual damage tick value showing on screen for Haymaker increaes by 10% like it's supposed to. So the question becomes, how do the Brawling tap, uppercut, and haymaker all increase by 10% , but result in a 23% dps increase. That extra 13% I'm assuming is related to the extra 27 ticks. I've had 2 other people confirm the behavior as well and the running theory currently is that the Weapon Mastery point is somehow speeding up the animation of Brawling Haymaker, which is somewhat backed by my footage where finishing the combo that I was doing as the 60s parse came up gave me a 90 hit counter (the actual big counter on screen), but with the mastery point, it was 102. Gonna wait on Obsidian to confirm it with the official dcuo log analyzer though. Assuming they ever decide to fix it, you can calculate in a 10% dps loss'ish. Two Handed melee taps also increase in their dps by ~37% from the mastery point instead of 10% like every other weapon in the game (looking at the footage, the 2nd melee tap of 2H increases in the damage tick by 80% and the 4th melee tap by 40% from the mastery point being put in compared to the 10% standard from the weapon mastery point description as well as other weapons as well as the the 1st and 3rd melee tap of 2H etc.) which has a significant portion of Clobber and Spinning Punch WM bugged as well and doing more damage than what should be intended. I can't compare Spinning Punch WM w/ and w/o the mastery point but Clobber was at a 26% dps increase from the point, so assuming it's corrected, it would go down to 10% and you'd be looking at a 16% dps drop roughly. Spinning Punch should obviously be taking a hit somewhat close to that. Assuming Doom uses the 2nd and 3rd damage tick since it starts with a lunge, only 1 of them is getting affected, so it's going to be pretty much untouched.
If the 25-27 is in controlled stat testing, you need to give context in terms of what other weapon combos parse as well, otherwise you can't make comparisons for balance discussions.
Maybe. There were a bunch of exceptions to the 10% rule of thumb across all the various weapons. I mentioned it, and then stopped paying attention to them. I tested all the combos, both mastery and non-mastery version, for the first 2 go-rounds of this weapon pass, but after that I stopped respeccing to test the non-mastery versions. At this point I going under the assumption that the major stuff is working more or less as intended. At various points there were also some non-mastery weapon combos that did more damage than the mastery versions of the same attack; I'm pretty sure they're all fixed now.
I wouldn't call them exceptions, more of mistakes* because that would lead to specific combo favoritism and several of them cause issues like the difference in the mastery point in CartWheel Kick and Elbow Drop from Martial Arts causing CartWheel to do the same dps as Elbow Drop and allowing me to stand there and reset the combo for 2H to just do the first 4 taps and I can put out the same damage on 3targets (non-clip) as MA Smokebomb and 1H Stunning Swipe WM and beat Mega Smash, DW Stunning Swipe and Ground Pound WM, and a huge list of other combos. Meanwhile Martial Flowers is still bugged and doing ~26% extra dps instead of 10% and combined with what the other guy was talking about with staff multiple times in the thread and even got a response from Mepps on saying it wasn't quit intended, I'm parsing 41.5k dps on ST using that combo at just over 29k prec. Probably doesn't help that the combo the WM from Staff uses is also bugged in the non-WM version and is getting somewhere near a 80% damage buff from the mastery point which is currently letting me equal/slightly beat even perfected Flurry clipping with Rifle WM's. I have a video to do but I can rant for at least 30 minutes on everything wrong with weapon balance because of the current mistakes regarding that mastery point that affect pve as well pvp.
So different testers comparing their results from the same weapon doesn’t belong in a weapon balance discussion?
??? How can you compare if you're at drastically different stats because the conditions are different? Where is the conversation supposed to go if you say you parse 25-27k with 2H Doom Spin and I say that I parse 536 with 1H Spin Chop because I'm testing with no gear artifacts sp or augments in with just a level 1 weapon?
you talk about subjective comments, this morning I saw asking for dps precision for the US elite, I started laughing but everyone knows that the damage of dps precision is disproportionate, next survival or you are dps precision or say goodbye to making survival, that you lower the damage of dps precision.
