Test Discussion GU45 Celestial AM DPS Update

With Game Update 45, we have made improvements to Celestial DPS. Celestial's advanced mechanic is still based on performing Celestial Combos. However, the abilities will now deal more damage when performed immediately after a multi-input Celestial Combo. To match all other advanced mechanics and weapon mastery, the Celestial Combos, while in Damage Role, now inflict and become vulnerable to counter mechanics. Below is a list of changes:

• Dark Pact
  • Reduced the power cost by 50%
  • Increased the duration to 12 seconds to match the cooldown
  • Increased the Might buff to 45% but no longer stacks with other super power Might buffs

• Death Mark, Cleansed Death Mark
  • Fixed a bug that caused these abilities to only heal in Healer Role or deal damage in Damage Role when your target is KO'ed

• Cursed Idol
  • No longer damages objects

• Plague
  • The Plague into Corrupted Divine Light combo should now be significantly easier to hit.

These abilities cause increased damage when performed immediately after a a multi-input Celestial Combo in Damage Role

• Admonish, Corrupted Admonish
• Divine Light, Corrupted Divine Light
• Retribution, Corrupted Retribution
• Smite, Corrupted Smite
• Wrath of the Presence, Corrupted Wrath of the Presence
• Blight, Cleansed Blight
• Consume Soul, Cleansed Consume Soul
• Curse, Cleansed Curse
• Death Mark, Cleansed Death Mark
• Haunt, Cleansed Haunt
• Plague, Cleansed Plague
• Wither, Cleansed Wither

These abilities cause increased damage while you are performing Celestial Combos in succession in Damage Role

• Cursed Idol
• Glyphs from Divine Light, Corrupted Divine Light

These abilities cause AoE damage when performed immediately after a multi-input Celestial Combo in Damage Role

• Retribution, Corrupted Retribution
• Smite
• Haunt

These abilities restore Power when performed immediately after a multi-input Celestial Combo in Damage Role

• Admonish
• Benediction
• Blessing
• Divine Light
• Renew
• Retribution
• Smite
• Wrath of the Presence
• Blight
• Consume Soul
• Curse
• Death Mark
• Haunt
• Malediction
• Plague
• Wither

Is it intended that Divine Lights glyphs are "multi-hitting"? To elaborate: On test: The 3 sparring targets, if I use DL each of the 3 targets gets hit by each of the glyphs, means each target gets 3 ticks at once because 3 glyps are close to it.

Also nice that Prec and Might glyphs dont overwrite anymore.

Okay scrap some things right now Divine Light isnt working as intended for sure ^^

I thought Prec and Might Dots don't overwrite anymore, however this does only apply for Divine Lights Prec/Might Dots, all other still overwrite. Was an issue when Celestial was released too so might be not working as intended here.

Also the triple hit as mentioned in the first post cause the dummies to melt in abnormal times so I think that is something as the similar bug we had when Celestial was released on test first time. Any rotation around Divine Light is going to beat any current live scenario and I don't even need a working combat log to figure that out thats where I assume something with the glyphs isnt working here as it should.

EDIT: Bug: Divine Light Might Dots get full WM crit bonus.

Sorry if I'm misreading something here, but if this power no longer stacks with other powers does that mean it is susceptible to being overwritten by other super power might buffs?

It's a self buff, so it probably supersedes group buffs. I'll test it, though.

Will this AM benefit from not speccing into Weapon Mastery?

Our PvP Healing is actually performing better but due to things being fixed on test.

We currently sit at the least potential in healing PvP.
Im shocked you didn't touch healing as it relies on AM:
Damage to healing. Im actually a bit upset.
How is it that Nature gets great treatment for healing, but we're even more power hungry than them.

25% damage translation into healing simply does not cut it at all.
Admonish cBlight and Divine Light are our go to moves and thet drain oyr power bar.
consume soul as well as Malediction cBenediction and Benediction cMalediction along with Blight cAdmonish are used extensively to heal PvP.
Please please please buff this area. It's underperforming

Could there be power returns in healer role on the following abilities:
Renew, Corrupted Renew, Admonish, Corrupted Admonish, Consume Soul, Cleansed Consume Soul,
Deathmark, Cleansed Deathmark, Malediction, Cleansed Malediction, Benediction, Corrupted Benediction,
Divine Light, Corrupted Divine Light.

Is it just me or is the test server not generating a combat log anymore? Combat log analyzer is sad

What's changed with PvP healing? Nothing in the patch notes reflected healing changes. Or did I miss something?

Is a bug. Elusian reported it.

I would think that maybe the precision damage can get the same +5% precision crit damage when not speccing into WM that HL's AM got.

This would make it so that using the AM with a melee weapon equiped, +15% precision crit damage, and WM not unlocked, +5% precision crit damage, when performing the AM, will give you the same +20% precision crit damage you get with WM unlocked.

Yes, while I appreciate the might/prec dots not overwriting I think it's actually causing a stacking issue now. Casting Divine Light on the three targets used to put only one dot on each but now it puts three dots on each. Reminds me of old electricity. I'm guessing that fixing this will also make the might/prec dots overwrite again :/

@spord
Please, please can we make Wrath of The Presence (and its combo into Cleansed Consume Soul) a full ranged ability? The AM looks great but Celestial still lacks WM options because:

(1) It doesn't have a full ranged AoE might burst, and:
(2) It doesn't have a PI to increase that might burst to levels comparable with other powersets (like Static Push, Gauss Grenade, Chompers, etc).

I find it really interesting that you went with a 45% self might buff because it in effect replaces the need for a PI to get that increased might damage. However, there's still a need for that full range AoE might burst and Wrath of The Presence already has a beautiful graphic at long range for some reason even though it's a close range ability:



Wrath of The Presence and its combo into Cleansed Consume Soul was always my favorite-looking power since it was shown in the Celestial sneak peak. It's just unfortunate that it was never used very much because there were always better options. Please give it some love

shouldnt they just decrease dot damage so that it will stay not overwriting?

i second this motion and hope some else carries it and it passes.

When spord said in the quantum thread they were making a pass at PBAOE abilities and making them ranged I was really hoping wrath of the presence and consume soul got the same treatment as distortion wave.

Quite honestly cleansed consume soul is the most gorgeous animation in a game full of outstanding animations.

If you have the time and technical ability please consider this I would use this over retribution - wither even though I think retribution wither spam over precision glyphs and cursed idol will be super strong.

I'm a bit concerned about this AM in PvP. It does a ton of damage and it blockbreaks so we might be looking at another fotm like HL and Wolf. It's not quite as bad as HL though since the combos don't interrupt.

I see that the AM has completely replaced the old PvP system for vulnerability. Doing two combos in a row used to make you either vulnerable to block or interrupt depending on the combo used but now you're always vulnerable to interrupt. I think I'd prefer it if you just kept the power return aspect of the AM for PvP but not the damage or blockbreaking ability.

Also, can we get some kind of power-back mechanic in healer role? Getting power back after performing combos in healer role could work as long as it doesn't make your healer combos vulnerable to interrupt.

When will Rage DPS receive a power up like alll the other powers?? Since you've nerfed it you haven't touched it and only concentrated on powering up all other powers.... don't you think it's time to power up rage DPS as well??

Well because Rage and Cele are the newest powers.. so they will be touched last... but this is another thing

I think they will touch it in GU46 (hope it for the Rage community) and also Earth needs some love.


Regarding to celestial:
Wasn't able to hit test server (****** downtime then when i have time to play..), but already saw 2 videos with the bugged stacking... I hope it will be fixed with the next hotfix

Why not Plague and/or Consume Soul?

This would make us use combos before actually using PcDL and since we want the AoE of DL it would be more welcome to get Plague as a cone AoE too so the whole thing feels like an AoE range package. The Cleansed Plague should stay single-target for sure as it gives us the option touse either way of P/DL combos for the situation it requires.


Edit1:

For the moment its a consistency thing. It's the only non-consistent power that does not overwrite. They gonna bring this in line to have their "consistency pass". So as much as I would like to see it stay, it would be bad for starting powers with exceptional rules. I gonna wait and see what spord is going to say about the current test server Divine Light.


Edit2:

In regards to the AoE range options, I proposed ideas around this in Remanders Celestial Guide starting here. Here the part:

There is more about that in the linked thread but I also like the idea spord has done with letting the single-target powers trigger AoE when multi-input- combos are performed but it also let me asked in the first quote why CS and Plague (both in combinations with AoE precision combos) are excluded from this rule and only Retribution and Smite/Haunt are affected. The current version makes RcW / WcR to dominant as a loadout requirement.

I would love to see more cursed tree love.

That whole tree is almost useless and god forbid if we heal with it.
In PvP it's quick but ineffective.

Also, please consider the power returns. I dont care if you dont touch our base healing values and power to effective health ratios. If the power returns are added, it would help tremendously.

I want to echo the others in support of addressing the huge discrepancy in PvP healing. Simply allowing some kind of power return mechanic for healing would greatly increase PvP effectiveness.

As it stands, Nature healers had severe power issues in PvP healing because of HoT stacking. They were given a gracious power return in bug form. Celestial has a similar power discrepancy. In order to be effective, we have to combo. When we are constantly knocked out of combos by broken CC spammers and counter delays, the power bar will deplete quickly. Let's also consider Celestial players are now going to be more vulnerable. All of this considered, Celestial will need a power return mechanic in PvP healing to be competitive.

Regarding the PvP side of Celestial - the DPS in PvP has always been top tier. I fear that if nothing is done about the healing side, all Celestial players will only DPS in PvP. It has already more or less happened now. Other than myself, I rarely see another Celestial healer braving PvP - and I refuse to do 2v2 anymore in healer stance.

Also, if room-wide multi-knockback mechanics are going to be continually added such as Hades's stomp, I can see power use due to being knocked back becoming an issue in PvE as well. I have never had issues with power until TotD - not even in SM. If this raid is to be the stepping stone to T7, then I could see Celestial healing falling behind in terms of power use.

Granted, this will highly depend on the content we are presented. Interrupts and broken CC both in PvE and PvP remain a huge concern for me personally as a Celestial player due to the slowness of recovery time and length of time it takes to execute a combo. If anything, increasing the speed on the Admonish combo to something closer to its former glory would help both the DPS and Healing sides. The risk vs reward seems a bit off to me, but, I admit, I will need to do some more tests with the new DPS side.

Haunt is really interesting to me now. I could see over an 11K hit from corrupted Smite on a single target. That's only with 3348 prec using Anoint and no soder.

I was using WcR on the 3 dummies that are together and then doing HcS spam. Haunt always slightly stacked upon itself. Now we get that AOE. I'm curious to know how the Haunt AOE stacks up vs Retribution AOE and maybe HcS spam vs RcW spam.

I'm not sure how Corrupted Retribution is now AOE. It always did a tick on target and the damaging aura did ticks on surrounding targets. I see no change here.