Test Discussion Episode 34: Supercharges, Artifacts, and Balance Changes

the biggest reason for the complaints is because leveling artifacts to 160 rapidly enough to use them in elite content requires cash. this isn't like AM and WM. you could level up an artifact to 120 in about 3 to 4 weeks just running content, but to get to 160 after that would take 18 to 24 weeks (as the exp/time doubles from 120 to 140 and again from 140 to 160). so that's 6 months to get 1 artifact to 160 if you just ran your dailies every day and your weeklies every week without replays. which means if you got an EOG, unless you paid cash its still not to 160. to go from 120 to 160 with cash is about 70 dollars per artifact if you include seals. I understand TOS and if things are truly unbalancing the game they need to be addressed. but I contend that the removal of the EOG SC regen stacking of the green circle already addressed the game breaking aspect of the EOG and all of these other changes are an overreaction. We will still see SC shield stacking if groups really want to do it. most groups who want to do that will just run two trolls and two healers, with one of the trolls actually being a dps but with the claw artifact and also using his shield. if you add in the tank being atomic and using mass density you add one more shield to the mix.

I blame Lex Luthor.

True, I've seen Mental PFFT benefit from this significantly. There's a definite argument to be made that increasing all of these abilities' cooldowns to 30 seconds when there are still SC's like Berserk that are power specific and are on shorter cooldowns (and frankly are much better for the DPS side) isn't the perfect solution. However, 1 second cooldowns is far worse for the Tank/Healer side of things.

Lots of valid points being made here against following through with these changes as they're being proposed, nice to see.

Of course the team has the right to make any changes they like. Following through with those changes will simply inspire many (most?) to vote with their wallets where artifacts are concerned going forward. Artifacts are already a huge investment of time and money and people are going to be really gun-shy with spending on these knowing that testers with potentially agenda-driven feedback have a heavy hand in influencing decisions that affect the entire community and their time and financial investments.

or as in TTBE, before EOG, all of the DPS would make their SC slot in their rotation their SC shield unless they were a non atomic tank power and didn't have one. So you could potentially have 7 or 8 SC shields to rotate through in a boss fight.

This is a step in the right direction. Thank you devs.

Hello Avair,

That is totally understandable. But please let it be sooner rather than later. What I mean is something that is planned to actually happen within a more reasonable time as a immediate short term goal, not something that may or may not happen or gets put on hold for quite some time.

As the longer this balance of other supercharges and abilities are withheld the more others will continue to be at a disadvantage. Most player have actually used some of these outside power abilities as placeholders for their under performing abilities.

I know the outside power abilities haven't been touched yet but just mentioning it as there are still quite a few under performing powers that have been using such abilities just to try and keep up and this included some supercharge abilities. Not that they made a huge difference when compared to some of the over performing supercharges that some powers have but they certainly did help some.

Hopefully some of these changes made can still hold up to that until a proper balance of some of those under performing abilities that some powers are still dealing with can be adjusted.

This does seem like a step in the right direction though and I do applaud the balance changes. I just don't want you guys to forget that there are quite a few players who have been waiting for the final polish of some of their abilities that have been under performing since the last revamp update.

Those concerns have been mentioned several times on the forums and in the mean time those players have been using outside abilities as they patiently wait or have switched powers (vacationed or retired a power/character) temporarily until their main power gets adjusted.

So this is mainly just a reminder of what still remains as well as a obvious statement that some of these changes though they are good will only continue to further give certain powers more of an advantage at least until a complete balance pass is done to those over performing and under performing abilities.

Thank you for your time and dedication.

Sincerely: Brav

(P.S. This is a good start but please don't stop here. A complete balance pass is needed otherwise certain powers will continue to have an advantage over others. Certain passes should be done together and released when they are ready.

For example, a supercharge pass on timers and their effectiveness should be balanced and released for all powers together when they are ready and not only a couple at a time. This allows a more even playing field instead of creating even more unbalanced game play while waiting for a complete balance pass for all.

Balance is needed and I do agree with the changes. Artifacts are good as they open up more options and enhance game play. But I do agree that they have shown and made more apparent the imbalances with quite a few abilities and powers in the game. So the balance change is definitely needed and welcomed).

That's a bit naive. Everything EoG did up until now was completely intended; the only reason they're considering this is because they realize they've made it hard for themselves to make comparable new artifacts attractive to customers without considerable power creep. The irony is that a) there's already considerable power creep due to the game's vertical progression component; and b) customers would find power creep a lot more palatable. "We're making you weaker so you'll spend money again to maybe be stronger in a different way until we decide we want you to spend more" isn't exactly good customer service. They needed to shake the meta so people are forced to try other combos.

They just let these exist in their current state for over 5 months without nerfing them. Atlantis content was balanced around their performance levels (Throne lb would be an even bigger slog w/o them). Yes, people shouldn't complain about the fact they've spent money on them but DCUO is still sending a clear message that it's buyer beware, which is going to result in people not spending more money on artifacts.

I don't agree with the SC changes but I do agree a balance pass is needed for powers and especially for Precision damage.

1. You don't need the chest socket proc to get infinite supercharge return. If you have a supercharge regenerator in your loadout or clip enough abilities, you can regen enough from the soul cloak and gemini to be back at full if not almost there after 6s.
2. I don't know why this is being said. Most people who use gemini already know this.
3. Spacing every 6s.
4. Because of 1-3, you don't need actual healers doing it. You could have 1 dps supercharge'ing the entire group.
5. SC shield fixes didn't fix what 4 poses.
7. Funny because the gemini nerfs weren't against the dps's. It was said specifically to stop the shield meta.
8. There is no insane single target damage of flurry shot mastery unless you're water, gadgets, or ice, and even then there are several might based powers that can compete. I hate when people just bandwagon and say that flurry shot is top single target and they haven't seen any damage parses besides a gadgets prec or any competitive might based nature or hl.

This is just an example for aoe with near infinite use. After 2.5 minutes, I barely lost what may be around 10% of my SC which means I could theoretically go for 20+ minutes nonstop at full speed parsing ~30k average with I think 34-35k might because I have my gen's and elite affinities hybrid between prec and might. I can do the same with ST as prec water but I can't make a long video because it drains power with all the clipping and I don't have a league troll on rn.The dps stance version of what's in this video with a gemini was parsing in the 40-50k range consistently. Nature was 40-50k ranged with healer stance still, the dps form was breaking mid 50's occasionally 60. And I believe the elec battery spec I gave a leaguemate was right at 37-40k as well for 3 targets. His single target with elec at like 20k precision i think it was (because he had soul cloak which got circuit breaker down to 12s), he could clip circuit every rotation with his weapon buff with a battery and stayed at around 30k dps because he had a constant 50/55% buff if he had a battery with him.

And I'm fine with dps's or troll's using their supercharge because unless it's going to be half the strength of what of the healer met shields with elec currently are unless there's some atomic tanks thrown in. Controllers spamming shields that are like almost 1/3rd of the strength of elec isn't as game breaking. Example being Hive E last boss. Gas phase will rip through a controller shield really fast, you need a healer or tank powerset group shield to actually last a little while. And while the dps's are allowed to put on their group shield, that takes away from their damage supercharges which is a trade off. Healers spamming something they already use wasn't detrimental.

1) A tank completely unassisted can use Dash Attack 31 times in a row every 6 seconds and it only takes 4 Dash Attacks (24 seconds) to refill a 10,000 SC. So a shield that grants immunity from cc and is as strong as Hardlight Shield & Perfect Poise (both 30s cooldowns) so what makes it so that you can have a shield as strong as a 30s cooldown one and be able to use that every second for 3:10 minutes in a row. There are some boss fights in raids that don't last over 3 min so a tank could just sit in dash attack the entire length of the fight and just hit an taunt then go back to DA.
2) Like I previously stated even a 6s dash attack cooldown used 4 times (24 seconds) refills a 10000 supercharge (what the healer powersets currently are) which is less than their 30 second cooldown.
3) Stacking Regen had absolutely no impact on the supercharge meta you could easily still sync EoG's between 2 healers or support roles
4) 100% this would happen routinely. The elite fight in The Throne the tank on Colum Wrath can 100% easily tank Wrath near the group for EoG circles or can run over place it and run back. What you are forgetting to mention is that the overwhelming majority of bosses in this game have no 360 attack splash damage. You can melee King Shark in elite if it wasn't for his thermonuclear attack, you can melee War Mungus, you can Melee parts of Murk where a tank would be able to provide regen to all the dps in range. So this point doesn't hold merit
5) This is an incorrect statement the timers did not change to 60s and they are still 30 expect for CG and Mass Density which were already 60s, if your feedback was to change them to 60s and keep them at 5000 cost that is the same difference as 10000 cost at 30s
6) Changing the movement modes and iconics to 30s now give more options for play-ability as you can run the supercharges in your own powerset or choose the iconic. For example a fire tank can choose between Bloom and Eternal Flame
7) That was definitely not the case, ever since the supercharge meta started the same complaints have been made, there are tons of examples of EoG being abused to highlight as reason for change
8) I worry just as much about precision but that's a conversation for another day. I can tell you that my league and others I know beat the elite raids first or were the first 3 league to beat them and we have no precision dps at all, we are all might. Precision presents that argument that certain elite fights are made easier by having focused single target damage but it doesn't make it any more harder for might PFTT dps to do it in Elite, just means PFTT groups take a bit longer in fights.

I stand by what I said. regen stacking removal did fix the issue.
for your reply to #7 the shield meta isn't going away. it just means more members of the group will use them during the fight to keep them up 100% of the time. also what I said about the dps did happen and its why these changes are being requested green spam and regen stacking inevitably led to large increase in dps because more orange circles could spammed.
for your reply to #8 you know as well as I do that certain elite leagues who have beaten elite on day 1 since venom wrist dispenser came out have doing it with flurry shot mastery. to say otherwise is naïve. you can identify who they are because on day 3 after they have beaten it and gotten all their renown they then complain how easy it was and that it needs to be harder which inherently happens.

Theirs never a balance in the game.

-Making a move to nerf certain cooldowns and not balance the rest out and releasing that on live LOOKS BAD

-This artifact has been out how long? players play a new raid and NOW its a problem? LOOKS BAD and not only looks bad but leaves an uncomfortable vibe debating on whether to upgrade more artifacts in the future. Because now ill read a description on a artifact having to wonder "well this seems good but is it OP? can i actually spend money on this and not have to worry.

-Theirs many issues that get brought up in countless amounts of threads made with not a peep being said yet you jump on something like this where players money was actually involved and change it instantly. LOOKS BAD


i know the intentions are to better the game but very awkward timing and seems rushed.

you are correct the timer is remaining 30 seconds. that is an error on my part.

Funny considering I was in Entitled and I was top dpson singletarget and aoedamage when Atlantis dlcfirst dropped and I was might-based nature with 2 precision dps's (1 gadgetsand 1 rage) before gemini spam was even used. But no1 wants to bring up nature parsing 25k+ single target

Good post, the whole thing feels super strange and extremely rushed.

I don't think they're complaining because it isn't still a decent artifact, they're complaining because they paid money to level an artifact that isn't as stellar as it was when they leveled it.

I think on an intellectual level reasonable people can at least see the reason why this balance is occurring it doesn't however invalidate the emotional response that they're having something taken away from them.

Im not sure why this should come as a surprise to the devs really, when you monetize an element of progression this was inevtiably going to be a risk.

It's clearly not just one person even if one has been more vocal, read the names, it's not an isolated sentiment.

Correct, the money side isn't an argument against the nerfs, however nerfing the moves in game achieves the same effect as nerfing the artifact so tomato, tomayto.

Im not against the nerfs by the way, but i don't think you can just dismiss people emotive reaction to the monetary side, it's just a different issue in its own right that's all.

I leveled up the EOG and soul scrap and personally i don't care but that's just me, i can perfectly understand the other emotive response even if i don't share it.

Haha! You thought you could beat me with kryptonite!? Kryptonite!

I am actually not against the nerfs either as the devs have the right to do what they want. I simply think

1) they are an overreaction to a problem they already solved
2) they aren't addressing some of the other imbalanced aspects of the game that have been around longer (for blackfalcon you can include nature might dps with flurry shot if you want as obviously it is op also) I know I have a nature dps also.
3) people will still figure out what is OP and adjust accordingly