Devs: LPVE General Feat Correction

Making this thread to thoroughly highlight the core issues with LPVE's current General Feat setup and to recommend appropriate bare minimum corrections.

Before we begin, as an aside, I recommend people running LPVE reference the excellent Legends Character Stats and Powers thread religiously, as it makes figuring out the optimal rotations for single and multi-target situations a breeze, dramatically improving your understanding, enjoyment, and performance in LPVE.

The Basics

- Each Legend falls under one of seven core categories: Arcane, Archer, Knight, Light, Speed, Steel, Truth. There are 10pt feats for completing 25, 50, 100, 250, 500, and 750 runs with characters in each core category;
- Each Legend belongs to two subcategories: male/female & hero/villain. There are 10pt feats for completing 50, 100, 250, 500, 750, and 1000 runs for each of these four sub-categories;
- There are additional 10 point Legends Master feats for completing 50, 100, 250, 500, 750, and 1000 runs with any character from any core/sub categories; and
- The absolute minimum number of runs to complete all feats is 5250.


Primary Issue: Stats Revamp dramatically lengthened the duration of LPVE runs

LPVE runs used to take <5-10 minutes. This was even pointed out by Mepps in 2016 when addressing concerns regarding these feats. As such, those 5250 runs took as few as ~440hrs. Stats revamp, however, effectively tripled the amount of time LPVE takes, even assuming best case scenario teams of rockstars using the penultimate rotations for their characters. As such, the same number of runs can now be expected to take well over 1200 hours. For reference, that's way more time than it took me to get every other feat in the game that came out after Origin Crisis, combined, including zero-point feats, plus my last few PVP & Last Laugh feats, time capsule feats, and episode vendor grind feats.


Minor Secondary Issue: Players are Somewhat Hamstringed by the Unevenly Distributed Roster

- Only three core categories have females in them: Knight, Steel, and Truth

- One category only has a hero: Speed

As a result, players have to be a bit more strategic than seems appropriate when grinding these feats. Eg. it's hard to justify not playing as a villain when you can play as a villain given that you're getting so much hero progress from Flash. Similarly, it's hard to justify not playing as a female when working on a core category that has a female in it. This isn't a huge issue but bears mentioning; the solution below would allow for some additional freedom in character selection without unnecessarily degrading the feat requirements.


Solution

At bare minimum, it's only logical and reasonable than the feat requirements should be cut to a third of the original to offset the impact of the stats revamp. Those who accomplished the feats pre-revamp shouldn't feel slighted in the least by that in that the time investment is the same for both groups. This would be best achieved with the following changes to the LPVE General Feat requirements:

1. Change Archer, Arcane, Knight, Light, Speed, Steel, and Truth thresholds to 5, 10, 25, 50, 100, 250
2. Change Male, Female, Hero, and Villain thresholds to 10, 25, 50, 100, 250, 500 (Note: Male/Female needs to be reduced to at least 750 due to their being only three core categories with females. Further reduction isn't required but would give players valuable leeway to play whoever they feel like instead of being forced into certain sub-categories)
3. Leave Master thresholds as is. No reason to change this and it will actually be far more appropriate with the core feats capping at 250; more incentive to keep going.

Also I'm sure it requires a lot less work to fix LPVE than bringing back the SM.

Linking these two threads so the devs can read again what most people think about the LPVE, besides the 2 or 3 that think they should leave it as it is, everyone else thinks mostly the same.

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dc...ve-or-stop-wasting-your-life-for-farm.279332/

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dc...e-investigation-ongoing-any-news-lpve.296258/

I love the idea behind this as it is true...LPVE is lopsided in points and has elongated runs post revamp....BUT....it will not happen. I also believe that maybe they originally planned for more LPVE runs, which would re-spark interest every month or so, but as we have been in a static rotation for a few years now, the only people running it are people who have never run a certain map before...new players basically...or people still hacking away at the count feats, and those go in bursts of 10 or 15 runs before people get bored and leave.

Good luck,
Reinheld

I still think they should run Legends versions of the Seasonal events and let them count towards LPvE feats.
and give buffs to Legends Characters as you acquire the grindy feats (e.g. Legends of the Knight feats would buff Batman characters)

Maybe but I still feel it's important for everyone to keep bringing it up in a constructive way until it's addressed. Tried to be as neutral/logical/objective as possible such that this isn't a whine, just a factual statement of truth to the issue that LPVE feats are highly iniquitous in that those who did them before revamp did 1/3rd of the work people have to do now. There is no logical argument the devs can make against these bare minimum corrections; it's not begging for arbitrary reduction, it's not complaining that it's too long/hard, it's just saying "hey, can we please get this normalized so it at least only takes the 400hrs it's supposed to instead of the 1200+ hrs it does now?"

Personally, I love LPVE. I know a lot of players who enjoy it and role with a few different spam groups when the best maps are up. Then there's people who love it but are sick of running the same maps over and over again and wish they'd keep adding more maps/characters. I'd pay for more LPVE, especially original LPVE content a la the Circe/WW/Huntress/Bizarro solos from back in the day, but at the very least I'm going to keep harping on them for leaving the LPVE general feats in such a mess. Only way we'll ever hope to get a fix.

Orr, simply remove it, give away feats, and delete that whole feat section after, like it has never happened, cause its a stain of feces in games history.
I'm sure new players will be glad too, if they start with a couple sp lpve gives.
I've got nothing but hate for that mode.


edit: I'm sure everyone will be happy.

Grind feats? Outdated.

Just end it and give their feats back. A lot of time lost earning and earning runs.

Or you can look at LPvE through my eyes (someone who missing 3.3SP in LPvE) but has 469SP and still missing a few old ep feats I don't care about.




**** LPVE

Coming soon, the legends time capsule.

For every capsule opened LPVE feats across the board are decreased by 5 up to a maximum of 50%

I have the same attitude towards TCs

I was joking in any case

I'm not saying it would be unreasonable for them to reduce these further, just that this is the bare minimum required to normalize the time investment required. Would rather see the feats fixed than removed.

Can't edit the OP but an additional issue, which is a fairly major one from a game design perspective, is that the requirements disincetivize a lot of players from participating for any meaningful amount of time in LPVE. It's by far the most absurd grind in the DCUO, more work for less reward than I can remember for any such thing in any MMO, and worst by far than the PVP feats were before reduction.

If the feats were at a realistic level, lower still than what I've outlined here, people would actually work on them.

Just convert these feats from 1 to 5 stars and people will spam LPVE a lot.

I think that would definitely make the call for feat reduction a lot louder but a grind reaches a point where it's so hyperbolic that normal and even hardcore players are just like "lolno." LPVE General feats currently take ~30 full-time work weeks (!) worth of playtime to complete, disregarding queue times, loading screens, and bathroom breaks. It's ******* bananas. Like I said, it takes longer to do than everything else in the game combined.

Minor Tertiary Issue: The "Master" Category is a Misnomer

While obviously no one would, you could run 1000 LPVE on a single character... not exactly a Legends "master" if you don't know the rosters rotations offhand. Even the natural way of doing the other categories' feats results in players generally deferring to their favourites over and over again. If the devs decide to go above and beyond with feat correction, it would be ideal if every character had their own, much smaller, feat category.

Ideally, the "Master" category would be replaced with a single 50 point feat after completing individual character feats, giving them all their own 5, 10, and 25 wins feats. Still comes out to ~1000 clears overall, feals waaaaaaay more manageable and less like a slog, and actually results in players getting better at Legends (and the game) in general. This would, of course, result in there being more LPVE feat points but this would be good because: a) players would be earning them by gaining experience with ever weapon type in the game as well as every Legends character's rotation, b) It would encourage people to actually do LPVE, with feats being way less gross, and c) it would increase sales via impatient newcomers buying their Legends instead of spending marks on them.


Additional Major Issue: Q3/Q4 Last Year, Mepps Stated Plainly That the Devs are Planning Changes

This is taking way too long. We know the devs recognize this as a serious problem. The continued silence on the matter just exacerbates the issue. This is especially true because it places us in limbo, where we're forced to anticipate any further work we do put into LPVE could be invalidated by whatever changes the devs have been milling away at. It makes LPVE way more dead than it should be, which makes it painfully unenjoyable to pug; this kills me because it's pretty chill with a good group of people who know their maps and rotations.

We need more openness, honesty, and transparency about what the heck is going on with this.

You got somewhat of an answer in that one thread you necro'd.

Guess until we get the kind of full/proper answer a paying customer should expect I'll keep talking about it.




Easiest way to stop people bringing it up would be to give an actual response about it. I put a lot of money into this game and this isn't the kind of complex issue that takes 3 years to solve. Players deserve better.

Maybe they closed it because someone is derailing the subject of the thread.
If you are not going to contribute, please go away.

Who? Me? I would have received a warning if I had. Plus I already gave my 2 cents on the subject in the other necro'd thread back when it was relevant fresh.