Dcuo 2 or continue dcuo?

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by King Cisco, Apr 16, 2021.

  1. Apollonia Dedicated Player

    I'm replying here because I don't think you need another thread on this topic.

    I think your point is sound. It's something most of us know. And the rest of us are unwilling to admit.

    There's plenty of interest in the IP and a game based on it, but the game's population doesn't reflect that interest because the game hasn't been delivering on what players expect from a game based on this genre and brand. People interested in the IP aren't looking for a competitive game where they can have beastly DPS. They're looking for a superhero experience that allows them to create their own characters and interact with and experience the DC comics stories, world and characters.

    The game has only ever offered a shallow ability to create "your own" characters to players. The game initially launched with 6 generic powers based on a fantasy game trope of powers that weren't related / based on any iconic characters in the IP. Newer powers introduced were a step in the right direction but (except for Light) they were only loosely based on the IP or characters. None of the powers in those powersets feature "signature" powers from characters using them in canon for example. And the team prioritized adding powers that were less requested over ones that were widely requested, because they were more interesting for them personally. Superstrength powers/Superman/WonderWoman characters are still the most popular archetype in the genre, but the game still hasn't delivered on a way to properly portray them in game, but instead prioritized every other power it added over the years. Powers are just an example but we can look at other aspects of the game that follow the same direction too. Like even the narratives--Fans asked for Legion content, and DLC delivered only lightly on Legion characters and filled out the rest of the content with the Titans instead. I mean, we can speculate why that is. It's probably related to budgetary constraints and so on, but a lot of it will come down to interest/will to deliver a specific direction and over the years the previous Art and Creative direction didn't prioritize things the players wanted. Now, what's my point? When the game intentionally deprioritizes what the players value and request for 10 years, over time people give up on waiting and move on. So, the result is a fanbase watching and waiting and interested but not jumping in.

    And of course other factors like the dated nature of the game just becomes a barrier too then. A bare minimum of the game is to provide competitive graphics for example so the game looks like it belongs in 2021. It's pretty frustrating because the talent is here on this team but again, it's a matter of will and interest. Someone at the top has to want to invest in the development costs and see the value in that.
  2. coldchilln88 Loyal Player

    The graphics thing is a straw man to me. The top 10 mmos out right now have very dated graphic engines. Most notably WoW. There's nothing wrong with stylized graphics. They work. Im indifferent to the rest of your post. But the graphics thing never held water to me.

    1. It would cost literal millions and years to overhaul the entire game to unreal 4 but even then unreal 5 will be a reality as well. Would it be cool? I guess. Sure. Needed? Eh.

    2. The irony of the people who wont play dcuo due to the graphics will turn around and go play games like WoW, Fortnite, Apex etc. Granted some run on newer engines but they all have one thing in common. They are all cartoony in nature. That's dcuo thing. Its supposed to look comic booky. Never was meant to be hyper realistic. So you're gonna spend millions just create a better comic booky look? I guess.

    I think the biggest issue with the game was its launch. Due to the hack and after it never got a solid foothold to build off of resulting in having to go f2p. If the game was WoW status yeah there would be people complaining about graphics. Always will be. But to the majority it just wouldn't matter.

    Again. Same people who complain about this game will turn around and play an equally cartoony looking game. I just dont ever see them investing to overhaul the entire game into a new engine as that would be essentially making a new dcuo aka 2. The graphics are what they are.
    • Like x 1
  3. ErickStrife Well-Known Player

    I'd love a DCUO2 with an updated engine, graphics... yes...


    It would need to fix many things wrong with the current game. Working PvP system that is in no way attached to PvE.
    Great VOICE ACTING (That is very important)
    Great story, and story arcs.
    Better mechanics, Current and NEW power-sets and weapons but most importantly...

    The ability to migrate all our current styles, items, bases and base-items, and obviously our character data.
    And all that stuff is just the minimal basics!

    if that minimal basics cannot be integrated, then NO, just do a graphics update to the current game (as planned).
    • Like x 2
  4. Apollonia Dedicated Player

    I'm not sure you understand what a strawman is:
    No one is pretending that the graphics are the main issue. I explicitly pointed out the "real issue" with the game is that it neglected the playerbase's interestes/needs for all this time and delivered other things instead. I finished by pointing out that "graphics" just become another barrier to play or "icing on the cake" of reasons why not to get into the game. Afterall, why would anyone play a game that doesn't offer what they're looking for and looks like it's 15 years old.

    1) I work in the industry. I know the costs and work involved.

    2) Hyperrealism -- This didn't come to mind. When I say "graphics" it's not short for "cartoony characters". Stylized character art isn't a problem at all and I didn't say it was. When people refer to the dated graphics they're referring to the UI, Visual FX (VFX) and environments. Hyper realistic character art is typically very unattractive unless you have the absolute best artists working on it, but an updated engine renders character art, environments and lighting differently. The comicbook-y character still looks like a comicbook but stops looking like a plastic toy and instead looks like a more real character. VFX can cast light on the surrounding environments etc. and those environments have more detailed buildings and structures and lighting which adds to the experience. Not everyone playing is sophisticated enough to articulate those details but they do perceive them on a subconscious level and enjoy them or miss them when absent.

    I don't believe this is a factor at all. Sure the hack etc hurt at the time, but the game expanded onto multiple platforms since then. The PC population plummeted because the game wasn't offering features players were asking for. The PS3 population was stable and then grew when the PS4 launched and it expanded with the f2p model and a lack of competition in the genre. The lack of adoption / growth on Switch Xbox and PC are the indicators that the game isn't offering enough of what players are looking for from a game like this. If it did, it would have positive word-of-mouth and buzz that would supercede any concerns about "graphics". Instead, the OP is right; go to Twitter and YouTube and it's always the same; "Still no new powers" and "This game still looks like it's on a ps3". We could dismiss them if existing players hadn't been asking for these to get addressed for 10 years. Eventually people gave up and moved on. Now, they wait to see if things will ever get better OR a new game will replace this one.

    And again, that's really the strawman because no one is saying they aren't playing the game due to its comicbook stylized character art.

    You're probably right. So, if that's the case though, think ahead of what that means... pop slowly getting smaller and smaller until people are sick of waiting (like they have been). If the Devs want to change that direction the only way is to invest in the game and that will bring back/in new players. So, yes, it's work and money but it's required if they want the game to continue for another 10 years. It's a difference of business approach.
  5. Derio 15000 Post Club

    The game suffers from alot of bad word of mouth. P2W, PVP neglect, Loot boxes, etc. Any real graphical updates for this game would be extremely limited due to switch. Warframe is the exception due to its architecture.

    Right now DCUO is bringing in steady income. While it isnt in the top 10 of MMOs, DCUO still has a healthy population that supports it on multiple platforms.

    DCUO2 would have to be a huge graphical and gameplay difference to where the current DCUO would seem like a lost cause.
    • Like x 2
  6. Savior Prime Dedicated Player

    If your talking about the dimensional ink website where it says unannounced project...it's been saying that since the website first came up.... been almost 2 years.
  7. Solarbound Committed Player

    LOL at those who spent 10K+ on this game:D:D:D
    • Like x 1
  8. coldchilln88 Loyal Player

    I dont think it is required though. There are other games that are still being developed as currently constituted. Im a realist. The game is what it is at this point. They can make minor improvements. But not overhauling the entire game wont make it meet its demise any faster. Look at everquest. No one is saying its going to be as successful as some of the top mmos. But it'll still be around.

    Its already been stated there is no intention to upgrade it to unreal 4. Its just not happening. Whether the funds are there is irrelevant if they're not going to. They can make minor improvements sure. But not updating the graphics wont be why the game doesnt reach another 10 years. I can name countless mmos that buck that trend.

    And im sorry i just whole hearted disagree that the PSN outage didnt affect the games launch or success. It threw a major wrench in it. Yes other things in the future would contribute to players coming and going. But being as their original plan was always to be a subscription only and having to switch to f2p so quickly shows the initial launch of the game was rocky and was set up for a troubled road ahead.

    If the game had launched to the success of a WoW or FF the talk about graphics would be an afterthought. There are numerous successful or games still being developed for that dont operate with high end graphical engines or top quality cutting edge tech. Minecraft uses freakin pixel art. Yes there are mods and you can dress it up but it's a basic looking game at it's core.

    Sorry i just think a lot of people who use the graphics thing are usually hypocrites. Not all. But enough.

    And this isnt really directed at you. It's just a general sentiment.

    For me personally i couldn't care less about the graphical fidelity. I care about gameplay. That said. They can improve the graphics within their current engine which they are trying to do. But thats all i ever would expect. There are other games that run on UE 3 that look more realistic than dcuo so there is room for improvement just in that engine alone still.

    Either way. If they want to invest in the game. Great. I hope they do. I'm just not sure its what people want or think it will be. And that doesnt mean it wont last another 10 years. But that's my opinion. Its not right or wrong just how i see it.
    • Like x 1
  9. coldchilln88 Loyal Player

  10. Apollonia Dedicated Player

    Again, no one is saying any of that. You're arguing against a point no one is making.

    It's simple; the game will continue to chug along slowly losing people to attrition, as it has been for years, until it's not profitable to keep it going anymore.

    This is normal for an MMO and it's referred to as a maintenance or custodianship phase of its lifespan. They're simply maintained to keep the existing players satisfied and only the bare minimum is added. It could go on for another 20 years but the game probably won't last past another 5-10 years like that.


    They can reinvest in the game and bring players back into a modernized game and continue to introduce requested features and keep it going strong and healthy way past the next 5-10 years. This is a risk though because of the existing negative buzz around the game after a decade of player experiences they'd have to overcome. If the Dev team doesn't change course, players will eventually move on and become those people in the comments on YouTube and on Twitter.

    It's important to note, that the dev team has indicated that the game is not in a custodianship phase of its lifespan. *I'm* a realist; as such I explained what the options were, the consequences of them, and what I think they should do. That doesn't mean anyone is ignoring what course they're on and what it appears they'll do.

    They likely have a condition of a minimum profitability and population to maintain to retain the license. Otherwise WB would potentially be stuck unable to develop similar products indefinitely bc their license is held hostage by a developer that doesn't want to give it up. Everyquest is a false equivalence. SOE developed EQ and its IP so they own it and can keep it going forever if they want to. DB/DI doesn't own DC Comics so they almost certainly can't do that.

    That's fine. But the fact that the game has replaced the lost population from that era in PS4 growth alone contradicts your belief. But you're certainly welcome to it.
  11. coldchilln88 Loyal Player

    Replaced? Eh. We'll never know those numbers. Thats an eye test. The point is the game got off to a rough start and couldn't afford all the other slip ups. The games pop has fluxed a lot. If it had a better foundation to be built on it might of ascended to greater heights.

    And again. As i said. This isn't really directed at you. Im commentating on the overall commentary you get alot with the detractors of the game citing the graphics as a deterrent. You see it here. Youtube. Etc.

    And again. I hope they do invest in the game. I just dont expect as others shouldnt the moon. It will be minor things. Unless something drastic happens. And that's fine. The game will go a long another 10 years as long as its profitable enough. I just think some should temper their expectations but that doesnt mean it cant be made into a better game and experience.
  12. Apollonia Dedicated Player

    I get it, and it's not like I don't understand the logic of having a rough start ... but I discount it because of its longevity and expansion on that specific platform. Again, I'd argue the game's direction never wanted to meet the needs of its audience and that's why people left, don't come back, or don't buy in. That's on Spytle and Chris Cao. They never wanted the game to be what fans wanted it to be.
  13. coldchilln88 Loyal Player

    I dont think you can discount it. If the game launched and had a smooth start lets say 10 million subs day 1 hypothetically. You get more people on the game. Staying on the game. But how many people who were maybe on that fence just put it down and never tried it again when they couldnt log into it for a month. They might not of had to go f2p if things went differently. They didnt get enough players on the game to sub. That hypothetical or potential 10 million turned into potentially 1 million and they were forced to go f2p. These numbers are obviously all made up. You're entitled to that opinion but to me you absolutely can not discount it.

    Sure they recovered once it went f2p but it never recovered enough to ascend to a top tier mmo therefore making any future exodus of the pop in the future hurt that much more. It changed the course how the game would be monetized in the future. Further leading to players perception of the current game with its f2p model and its perceived p2w aspects.

    Again. There's no way of knowing if it concretely affected the launch. But in my opinion it absolutely did and we might be looking at a different game now with a strictly sub model and a different perception of the game along the lines of WoW of FF or even ESO and the graphical criticism would be a far cry from what it is now.
  14. coldchilln88 Loyal Player

    Either way. Dcuo 2. Highly doubt. But i do hope the game continues to improve.
  15. Apollonia Dedicated Player

    I was thinking about this more while grocery shopping and I think you're forgetting a few key elements. 1) the game didn't have a rough start on PC. PC players largely moved on due to the lack of features (as mentioned) and the fact that the PS3 ceiling was limiting development potential. 2) its rough start was on ps3. and yes the hack was a month affecting both platforms, but the real issue on PS3 was its instability and constant crashing over the first couple years until ps4 came out.

    I would argue those issues were far more relevant than the hack.
  16. coldchilln88 Loyal Player

    Either way. It got off to a poor start that definitely hindered its initial growth.
  17. Lovora Liaht Well-Known Player

    Agreed! Look at World of Warcraft.

    That game still looks dated, but that's part of it's charm. It's still able to entertain the masses.

    Keep DCUO the way it is. Update the game whenever and however you can.
    • Like x 1
  18. Lovora Liaht Well-Known Player

    So freaking true!!

    The new, prettier Marvel game just doesn't interest me like the last canceled Marvel game.

    DCUO is fine. Just update it. No need to throw the entire game away.
    • Like x 1
  19. Lovora Liaht Well-Known Player

    The game used to be much more challenging, but over the years...the difficulty became more casual friendly.
    • Like x 1
  20. Lovora Liaht Well-Known Player