Core Strength vs. Penetrating Strikes (with pictures)

Yeah, not sure. Patch notes make it seem like all NPC defense will be the same. They may just be using CR as the differentiator now. Interested to hear what you find out.

Also curious how PS interacts with the new defense debuff of 33%. Do they just stack? So, 15% mitigation drops to 5%? Do they apply sequentially? So, 15% drops to 10%, then to 6.6%?

Just a thought. Wouldn't the latest hotfix affect your performance on the sparring target. Wouldn't thier cr126 mean thier defense be higher therefore PS being more effective?

Not necessarily. The hotfix makes it sound like all NPCs will have the same 15% mitigation. If so, PS would have the same effect on all targets. Relative CR scaling is a different thing entirely, and it's not affected by PS.

just tested it on the sparring targets, which I can confirm have 15% defense again. this mod makes it so easy to test npc defense now

PS alone: 5.88% increase (15% def -> 10%)
Controller debuff alone: 5.88% increase
PS + controller debuff: 9.8% increase (15% def -> 6.67%)

so they do apply sequentially. and CS + controller debuff would be much better than PS + controller debuff now, for a 12.5% increase

The hotfix increased sparring target defense by a bit but that had nothing to do with CR. it was just some bug fix.
Expect your damage on sparring targets to be around 10-12% lower than before the hotfix today.

Wait is core strength still better or did Penetrating Strikes that the throne again?

im alittle confused by mackerel's latest statement as well... is that 5.88% the increase that pen strikes offers now? because if it is core strength is supperior judging from his graphs on the first page.

Core Strength (with max damage): 6.25% increase

CS is still better unless you're specifically targeting one of the special NPCs with much higher defense. I still don't know which those are though.

Do you remember the exact quote the dev gave? Or have link? I want to see if it's just generalized or specific to rare NPCs. I pay attention to NPC types.


There are NPCs that are buffed by something or buff themeselves within the game. They buff their own defense and you usually see this indicated by the green defense buff icon under their name tag. Superman in HH is one recent example. The yellow Rays trigger off the his defense buff and reportedly buff his damage. Lex Luther in Nexus raid is another example.

There are also NPCs that have higher ranks than others. Which means they deal more damage, have more health, and can be combat countered. It might be possible they also recieve a defense buff with the CR changes but I don't see that being likely given my understanding of the CR changes.

from the May 8 hotfix

and I did find one of these NPCs just now. Superman in the STAR Labs Facility solo, who seems really overtuned for the solo's CR range. Penetrating Strikes was increasing my damage on him by a ridiculous 165%, which means he has something like 83-85% defense. so if you're facing one of the bosses you mentioned who can buff their defense, then I'd recommend carrying extra mods in your inventory so you can switch PS in and out for these bosses. I'm not able to do raid testing, but you can check it out for yourself and see how much damage you're doing. If they have enough defense, the difference should be easily noticeable like it was for me with Superman. PS nearly tripled my damage against him.

Interesting. Switching mods isn't really practical, though you could have a second chest piece with each mod to armory over to. Not the best. So, PS may be the boss killer, while CS is the add killer?

maybe, yeah. most bosses should have the standard defense though.
or just stick with PS the entire time since the difference between the two is small anyway.

Possibly. Likely, the bosses with the higher defense will also have significantly higher health, anyway. May even itself out.

Will this post get a GU 47 update? I'd love to see the in depth analysis done again with the new modifications made to the PS mod. I saw a line indicating GU 47 update, but it seemed to be a placeholder as the data referenced is outdated.

I'm not completely sure but I think they meant all enemies who are meant to prevent their damage because of mechanic like Jor El in fos2 and Mantis in T6 alert . Before that fix I was able to kill both of those before using crystal or device but now they take 1 damage again and device doesn't actually work anymore in Mantis fight and you'll do 1 damage even with the device.

So CS is much better than PS? Or the difference is small?

i'm just curious as to where you are pulling a lot of these numbers from. This game is severely limited on actually providing us with this info

The difference between the two with the controller defense debuff, what he's talking about in the first quote is noticeable.

The difference between the two without the controller defense debuff, what the second quote was referring to, is tiny, a 0.37% difference.

There's plenty of context if you look at the conversations surrounding the quotes.

If core strength is much better than penetrating strikes with the controller defense debuff, how would it be ok to use penetrating strikes all the time? Wouldn't it be better to use core strength if you run with controllers that debuff? That's what has me confused.

Why stick with PS if the difference is noticeable with the controller debuff?