Buff controllers against healers

If gear doesn't matter as you say and even made a point to point out in your video, you shouldn't have any trouble doing the same against them, right? Them being Spart, Chill, C0ntra, Godi. Again, if you are going to try and prove a point do it, but do it against good players, not new players. Skill/RPS, Gear is how this game works.

I know you and Spart or Chill can all buy blood bat. So you would be even gear wise. Why not show everyone what a real fight looks like when you fight a Tank that knows how to play as a Controller of equal or similar skill with even gear? You basically admitted that you way out skilled the players you faced, thus proving Hansel and my point that you went new player stomping. It did not show us anything we all already did not know and the video showed us nothing new at the end of the day.

Where in the video did I say that? I've consistently said that it matters with equal skilled players or lesser skill against better (lesser skilled in the better gear.)

Unlike a lot of people though I'm willing to admit that there are many more people of equal skill level. The thing that I have up on many of them is really experience. Also the RPS system really does slant perceptions on skill. IE--Godicus use to be a Gadgets troller (healer killer spec) and I ran into him a few times--he won. He has since changed to an Ice tank and now I'm winning. Similarly skilled players, counter role mechanics--counter role wins. Or tank for instance Zer0 Degrees (the only tank I remember losing to in a lair.) He just out countered me and farmed immunity--was a great match and he is an excellent player. Does that make me "bad" because I lost? No, it means he had an uphill fight and he overcame it.

Regarding Ka Chow fighting better known tanks, healers, etc. Give me time--I'm a father of 3 with a newborn and a lot on my plate. I don't have the time to just farm my T5 gear overnight. I will be posting additional videos as this character progresses and I'm sure more recognized names will appear either by design or happenstance.

Edit:
I'll talk to Sparty about running some tests with cash gear and only white mods.

To answer your first question, at the start of your first video you showed us your gear and under skilled Tanks gear.

Secondly, yes I agree that counter roles have an uphill battle, but its entirely different for Controllers, as you will find out against Spart.

Again congrats on your newborn, and I am very patient. No rush. The only thing I am not very patient with is the devs decision to keep RNG in the game despite how many players dislike it. Speaking of which, if you are one Yallander, go here...

https://forums.station.sony.com/dcu...ay-to-remove-luck-from-our-skill-points.9625/

@Giggles

You keep coming back to healers are the only role that aren't completely nullified by their counter role and that you just want balance. Yet you keep Ignoring the fact that healers are the only role whose powers aren't dps abilities serving double duty. If you want fair, the options are a) make it so when any role gets debuffed their powers will no longer cause damage (balanced means in addition to your I win button, you also get an I lose button) or b) make healer powers do damage in addition to healing (which, while it would be great fun for me, really would make healers the OP beasts you seem to think they are)

Also that's not even touching on the merry havoc what you propose would wreak on group matches.

This is not the case - No Role is completely nullified.

Tanks still have all their mitigation in the form of their health and toughness from their gear, regardless of whether or not a healer is debuffing them. Controllers can still debuff their opponents. Expanding that beyond 1v1, Tanks can still cleanse and controllers can still provide power out to their teammates via Defib/Recharge/Psychic Empowerment. No Role is completely nullified.

I can tell you right now your not fighting a good healer if you rip them apart. I live in lair battles and I can safely tell you that a really good sorc healer I dont care how many times you can debuff them thay can still outlast you. and I run DPS gear in troll role against a healer and you still have a really hard time killing a good one.. they can use consumables to wipe your debuffs and then their trinkets. plus supply drops and side kicks makes the healing class way OP for duals

Do you not have access to the same HT items they have? Or at-least have the ability to get access? You also have access to debuff grenades right? Maybe you're just not as good as you think you are. Did you ever think of that? You are not entitled to an automatic win, you actually have to try. You can not JUST try, you also have to have some SKILL. You also have to have a plan, and tactics. Be prepared for anything and EVERYTHING. You never know what you will come up against. Those healers you come up against are clearly prepared for anything/everything. So should you, and don't speak of sorcery as of though it is OP. ATM in pvp sorcery has the hardest time healing other than BOTH of the other healer power-sets.

I PUT AN END TO THIS.
its balanced at the moment. just ice tank needs to get in line with the other tanks. i tell u why.

1. u gotta make a decision..... support or kinda "destroyer" for every power (tank powers have an advantage but i make that point clear in another thread another day maybe)

oook trollers and healers pure role specced are supportive all the way. u wont kill anybody and only support.

a pure healer wont kill tank i saw it and i did it myself with my tank and all were healers with reputation from pvp leagues as example HTF from EUPC.

a pure troller wont beat a healer i know it from experience.

IN UR SPECIFIC ROLE U ARE A SUPPORTER.

if u rly rly want to destroy a healer the quickest way wear dps gear in troll role. if u rly rly wanna destroy a tank fastest way wear dps gear in healer role. if u wanna destroy troll wear dps gear in tank role. easy effective logic.

me and my 2 vs 2 partner NEVER had problems beating a heal troll combo where the healer can spam their heals. some heal skills maybe could need a little tone down but its fine no need buffing trollers .... again.

THE BEST SOLUTION is u have ur role armor and just spec prec might in passives and put some decent dmg skills in ur loadout. u still give ur mates alot of mana and can by the way destroy any healer. maybe some of u even dont understand how to debuff healers i have the feeling.

if u arent ego and wanna support ur team becouse every team need a real heal and troll wear ur gear for the main role.

thats the trick and no reason to cry about this fact becouse atm its ballanced the way it is and changes could destroy the balance and there will be other nerfs. be nice to each other and end this.

and maybe to clarify something. its power specific debuff not role specific debuff becouse. ( for all who cry about it i make u understand the reason for the mechanic)
if u are lets say tank power user. u can equip tank gear and run as dps. u will have still godlike defence but instead of getting more defense when using a skill u get more attack power. and noone can debuff u that would be sooooooooooooooo OP its unimaginable. to ballance that kind of change would be rly rly rly difficult and probably not solveable and u could get a coffin for dcuo pvp.

some people understand the system some not thats why some agree buffing becouse they dont have any clue of pvp and about mechanics and some here can tell that they can kill any healers even with 2 tiers undergeared becouse they know how to spec and gear for that reason and believe me the way it works at the moment is fine. if u have problems then its ur fault.

crazy.
maybe i just have been missing it since i always hit healing debuffs before any other casts on a healer.
i guess i sorta remember now when that changed maybe.
-serious memory issues over here, lol.

I am talking about nullifying their roles abilities for mitigation. We don't have control over stats on gear. My point is in 1v1 Healers strip away the Shields and self buffs that Tanks place on the,selves with 1 power. Tanks remove all shields and PoT we Controllers use with one power. Controllers in order to completely debuff a Healer with our debuffs have to use 3 powers, and again this only reduces the about it does not remove it all together. Seriously, I'd settle with devs fixing how HoTs work and make it so that regardless of when the HoT is used it is debuffed entirely for the proper percentage the second the red heart is placed back on a Healer, and a way for us to strip HoT from the Healer, not the team. They could easily make this work the way Tanks remove our PoT yet the team still keeps it.

That's why I jumped into this thread. The revamp is coming for Healer sets. Maybe they could make the heals attacks as well some how. All I know is, I and others are simply here providing feedback. Whatever the devs decide is up to them.

Oh and it would not ruin group play at all. The only thing this would change is that matches would no longer go 20 minutes without a winner because all that healing simply would not take place anymore. Those who function well without a Healer now, will only be better as everyone has grown accustomed to all the healing they get. This would not effect PvE at all either as NPCs do not debuff Healers. This would strictly effect PvP only.

If by wreck group play, you mean make those who are dependent on having a ton of heals easy targets for slaughter, then yes you are correct. I see no issues with that.

I would really like to see you fighting against a really good PVP-healer. Not one you can bb or block continiously .

So its a skill issue ?
The problem is what is being asked for if you think about it. Its not the debuff but the healers role gear with too much HP and toughness. Debuff doesn't mean you win nor will eventually win. Healer vs tank is much more harder then troll vs healer. You have 2 survival. Class trying to only counter each other.


This thread is getting silly again. Play a healer all the time. Not this once or twice occasionally to back up some crazy ideas.

My main is a controller and I see no need to buff them against healers, I have no problem beating them. Many times I can even defeat fire and earth tanks. The only class I loose against 99.9% of the time are ice tanks and unfortunately 2 out of 3 times I do lair battles i'm matched against an ice tank. Don't know if there are so many of them or am I extremaly unlucky. I see now way to defeat one in controller role.

imho tanks and trolls debuffs are very uh weak when it comes to pvp. A geared troll can evade a tank while in some casses a troll can cc a tank into oblivion. One major issue is that healers debuffs are far too potent and them being able to heal through damage along with being able hit like truccs means that they are grossly overpowered in pvp because in essence they break balance in both match ups.

yeh but whats ur opinion worth when u didnt try it urself.
1. troll debuff: strips away the healer role can reduce healing even further and debuff shield of healer by just using one skill and by using ur debuff u get mana for using another debuff. thats the most potent debuffing in game.

2. healer debuff remove only shield of ice tank , if fighting fire their hp buff, if fighting earth the absorbtion so only 1 debuff and it can be removed when they just using 1 skill.

3. tank debuff removing pot ripping apart shields of trolls and have huge dmg against trolls and cant get cc ( so ur wrong a tank that can get cc just is a bad tank who dont have any clue of how to play his role ) the dominance of tanks are DOUBLING when going to tank stance.

if ur new to the game learn to play first before asking for nerves or buffs allready + u see even in raids that healers are in last place with dmg. what u saying makes no sense at all.
what u saw was maybe someone using healer role with dps gear and thats possible with tank ( very effective mixing booth gear types) and troll (effective against healers) but ur heals will be very very bad then and u wont be able to keep anyone up but u will be able to hit down a tank faster but tanks can do that with trolls and trolls with heals too. where is the prob ?

stop raging childish if u have no skill accept it.

I still say Controllers need an attack buff involving dominance: 50%dom+might, 25%DOM+precision

Dominance has little effect in PVP for a Controller compared to Tank who use the stat to add toughness or HP.

In Arenas Healers take focus fire from multiple enemies constantly yet 1vs1 Healer VS Controller is somehow considered balanced, meanwhile Tank VS Healer almost always goes Healers way and Tank VS Controller always goes Tanks way.

heal reducing buff would make more sense since attack buff also involve that u hit heal power user who arent healers harder and that would get unfair and u will have next thread called NERF trolls. a stronger heal reducing debuff would better keep balance. but however if u rly loose against a healer than u should change ur power becouse u dont know how to use urs. and no heal vs tank dont go allways heals way especially not if its ice tank. healers have harder time to debuff than other powers.
healers have to use dmging skill for debuff so they have to waste power on something that dont rly is effective for them.
a friend of mine is lantern ( OP atm in my opinion ) and i have another one whos mental and its insane how they beat healers who have faaaaaar better gear and sp( t2 - t3 vs full vengeance user ... ) . a healer with low gear would get pwned by tank with higher gear.

by the way what does dom for healers ???? crying on the forum wont make u better pvper. healers arent pvping much anymore not like earlier if u want them to completely miss in pvp then go on. u allready see now most of the time tanks and trolls in pvp becouse they got buffed. cmon be honest how often u see someone with lantern especially in 1vs1 or a ice tank.
a lantern is sooo strong that he can just spam his skills in ur block and u will die do u think healers have it easy ?

Yallander if you are really serious about making a video fighting some skilled Tanks as a Controller, I have Tanks that would gladly fight you as a Controller. I would like to see you fight Spart as well however in that same video add some Tanks that are not in your league, so it doesn't look fixed. I even know some great Healers who you can fight on that Controller if you want to show us how you fare yourself.

Also I wanted to ask you, do you agree our Controller debuffs should debuff all HoTs whether they are ongoing or not, at the very least? Example, if a healer is debuffed then hits PvP trinket then hits CoP, sure the HoT starts at full heals but the second we reapply the debuff it reduces the healing of that CoP while it is still going.

Also, your thoughts on us stripping HoTs only from the Healer we debuff? Example, you cast savage growth, you and everyone get the HoT, we hit you with the heal debuff and now we strip your HoT and PoT. Until they are reapplied. Since we strip PoT, they could easily add the ability to strip HoTs from our targets. If not, why not?

Just trying to continue a nice healthy discussion. I'm asking you this not as Controller who can't kill Healers, as you have faced me before. I am asking you as someone who sees a problem and prefers a balanced game. I want to remind you and others who do not know me, I have always asked for fixes to balance even when it effected my power set. Everyone remember when NN was spamable? Yeah I was one of the only gadgets players in favor of that nerf.