Battle Roles...yay or nay?

I responded on a comment about battle support roles in the Water Testing thread and was encouraged to move it to a new thread. So here is my stance on the matter....

I am all for it. I believe it gives support roles another style to play with. To me it is very fun and engaging. It gives me some purpose in a group beside help glorify the DPS roles. Its a dps 1st game. I also previously started a thread in testing called battle roles what if...My thought was seeing if the devs could make battle roles more of an option for support roles. With the stats revamp it became more of a formidable option. Now...lets hear your thoughts

I'm all for it. My criteria for when I do it is that I won't use dps only powers. Everything on my loadout must first serve my support role

My fire battletank build has all tank gear...except my hands., feet, and shoulders. Face, neck, rings and utility belt are all OP items. My loadout consists of 2 shields (which I alternate) with a couple dps moves and both role powers. Tanking is my priority and I use my powers to apply burning which helps my defense. I also use 1h wm into dw flurry. I have enjoyed it immensely.

Here is a snippet of what I posted in another thread that gives you my stance on the whole battle role debate

I am a long time player and fairly new to the forums as Ive grown more involved in the dcuo community. I joined Test to learn revamp back in January. I learned alot. Especially the significance of support roles. I tanked for years...but only out of necessity. It was not fun or engaging for my taste. Sadly its a dps game. Dps has most of the benefilits and they overlook support roles all to often. I was guilty of that myself. I chased CR and burned thru instances without the need for sp and getting feats. I can admit that. When I started test I was a cr 199 Earth toon with only 130sp. I am now a 199 Fire toon with 158. My knowledge in test got me chasing feats and sp. Also being the best support role I could be for the sake of teamwork. I want the same as u guys. I want this game to continue. I think the revamp has helped and hurt the community. I am pro revamp. There are bugs and concerns but that's another post....

I have to disagree with the people against battle roles. My reasoning is because support roles have diminished so bad over the last 3 or 4 years. AM and WM played a part in that. The scoreboard played a part in that. We chase. We want the glory. We are a competitive species. Its why sports and such are held in such high regard. This is a superhero game. We want to be the best competitively. I "Battletank" with fire. I enjoy it for a variety of reasons. Its engaging and that's fun for me. I can not speak for healers and trolls trying to do the same...bc tank and dps are my roles I play the most. I stay in Tank mode majority of the time.

My duty as a tank is to pull the enemies and keep them focused on me all the while mitigating the damage in I am taking. Keeping the focus on me and off other roles for the sake of survivability. This is the priority. I have 2 builds as a tank 1 is a full on slaught tank...built to take damage, heal and keep aggro...with no dps powers. The other is a battle build used to deal damage as much as I can while staying in my respective role...helping by doing what a tank does...controlling the fight and helping with burn. It's my favorite way to play. But i dont do it to chase numbers
If I happen to out damage a dps or 2....that's on them.

Support is a much needed area in DCUO. So my question is how does DCUO make it more appealing? More engaging? What can we do for the support roles? I think battle roles isnt a bad idea. It has me playing more and quite interested in the game that got out of hand and so DPS heavy.

I have not been able to work out fire battle tanking. Immolation, stoke, wildfire,backdraft, engulf, and eternalflame (thinking about trying nvb)

Posted this earlier.

I have no argument about them wanting or with them doing it. Just not at the expense of what makes the damage role unique already. Controllers are unique in their own skill sets, tanks and healers the same, but by not seperating power, support roles who are buying this power to play their roles effectively are getting the DPS stat that makes their role unique for free. Thats not right at all. Even further, the support roles getting our dps stat pretty much for free dont get the same clamps as us for doing damage? If they want to play dps, they should, but not at the expense of the dps role. It should be them playing as a dps role themselves, OR paying into the stat on its own for damage output. Not for free. Not at all. Support roles would primarily be spec-ing into other things for the sake of their role, but with just getting the might for free along with power, theres an imbalance Im seeing game wide. Its the largest imbalance in the game as far as Im concerned. If my stats are supposed to matter, dont first and foremost minimize my role by giving everyone my damage output for nothing while dps are clamped in content for being dps as well and they arent. Thats nothing to me, but a horrible imbalance.

I sent you a message on my build so you can get an idea of what works for me with fire

That's how I battle role. I make sure my main role is properly covered first then I start to go outside the box with abilities that would benefit more towards a battle spec.

honestly.. if they are ensuring their role is taken care of - it is noone else's business what ppl do

As long as they do their Job i don't mind battleroles. Why not sneeking in some damage while waiting for putting the next heal?

With proper planning and stat points it is possible, but in general no, not for the average person.

Some powers were kinda made for battle roles. This is why we have abilities that heal based on damage dealt like McB (although they say its broken now) and powers like atomic that were made for people that dont need to block.

I'm all for it. As long as it does not hurt the group. Before Revamp my league often ran stuff 1 tank 1 troll and all dps. Most dps were in combat medic type loadout.
I'm still working on variations with certain powers to be able to do this again.
Atomic has always been great for a combo tank/dps. Now earth works also. Still working on the other 3 tank powers.
Celestial had been great combat/medic. While electricity is doing ok for me right now. Still need to work on others.
Munitions was a great combat troll. But working on trolls combat next.

Again running this way, is usually frowned upon in the community. But I find it just brings an extra wrinkle in the game from time to time. Just find the right people to run with and this is no problem.

Considering how easy alerts are, I don't see a reason not to play at least somewhat offensively in alerts as a supporter. There is basically nothing to heal in there so there's no need to bring a loadout with 6 heals and 175SP in Resto. If the other group members aren't Power wasting fools, there's no need to spam Power dumps with 175SP in Vita. Tanks are solid enough to focus on damage all day with the help of their active tanking mechanics.

This is for alerts. For raids of course these are harder to pull off, especially in the case of Healers who can't get away with a 2 heals loadout if they're soloing. With a moderately good group however, basically all regular raids (including US) can be done with offensive supporters. Bringing two Healers/Trolls makes it much easier to pull off for those roles.

The game is a lot more forgiving now. Even though Healers and Trolls seem to have gotten the short end when it comes to playing offensively, I think they have more flexibility than most people assume so far. All you need is a healthy combination of confidence, knowledge, awareness, cooperating teammates, and ideally plenty SP.

The curr3nt definition of battle role i dont agree with. When players take out thier gear to replace with dps gear is wrong. But using your skill points and mods. As long as players can do their primary role to help with damage is fine. But to many players keep replacing thier gear. The necessary stats you need are in the gear the rest is icing on the cake. I am getting to the point that with how all gear is unattuned now maybe players should be locked from wearing dps gear while in support role form and conversely the same for dps.

Your unique ability is all the crits you have in your weapons gear spots. Plus the crits in the stats tree that is what is yours and as in the gear dps should be the only ones able to wear dps gear. Now op items used to be different for roles and dps now not at all so any role can wear the op items

Whys that? In alerts, your max stats aren't needed for off roles. We don't need to dictate how people want to play just because some don't agree with it. I'm 100% behind battle roles, as long as it doesn't hurt the group. I've toyed my a few pieces of dps gear on my battle tank. Everything except raids, it perfectly fine.

I agree with you but. Let's face it unless you make it a corridor players will bounce all over the place. I have always been able to do quality damage outside the am era. But i still believe the enate traits for a role will better suit the masses. And black i get what your saying but the dps crit boost should be whats for a dps more then anything else. If the game continues this way with the roleless buffs less and less supports will have the chance to learn how thier role works. Unless in a raid and then with them not in full role form then they are set up to fail. We are a society that has to over indulge. Most ppl want to be a superstar or rockstar with out putting in the work. So i do think that the average player needs some direction so that the 70% plus need it. That's why I believe some limit needs to be done

thats not needed I'll give an example as atomic I can tank any content in-game out side of the two newest raids in straight battle tank were I have just enough dom to be able to CC and the rest DPS gear and on countless instances, I have been the only reason the content is completed. where in the boss fight with random pugs they die over and over and i end up having to solo the boss to get by them that wouldn't be possible in pure tank gear as it would simply take way too long.

now saying that i also have no problem if I am the one dying and causing the issue will happily switch armories to full tank to get through something but 99% of the time I dont have too. you can tell if your taking too much damage for the content very quickly and can make adjustments.. its a much more fun way to play..

people just need to know their own capabilities and what their power is capable of and still be able to provide their role

I'm for it, I'm always for letting players play the game how they want to play it without penalties. But it should be harder to do good with than any regular role. Also should take more thinking and effort.

Like, all powers should offer a way to risk some defense for increased offence but it should be something you work harder for.

I get what your saying but hear this in full tank role gear except dps trinket i have solo Grundy bounty gentleman ghost and ultrahumanite. Takes me about 22 minutes to do it myself no help its a great test. My tank loadout mods sp all give me what i need to do damage i have 6300 plus dom and 13k might plus so to claim you need dps gear to do damage is false. I typically do between 65 % to 80 % of the quality dps damage. So again we have no need to where dps gear at all