The real reason why Prec needs a NERF

It’s that attitude that does not help the game. You have no clue what I play on my toons. If you actually play different powers you will see that they all have their pros and cons when it comes to their support and damage roles. Do I want to be top dps? Not really. I have a different mentality when playing vs those who are scoreboard chasers, presumably like yourself.

I also want to inquire about this, you say that might powers are 1,2,3,4,5,6, and that makes sense, but isn’t that the same in regards to prec as it is buff, weapon mastery, power, clip that, jump, and repeat? Sounds a lot like 1,2,3,4,5,6 to me. Unless y’all have this special loadout bar that I am unaware of.

amen

Generally speaking might is a lot easier to utilizing.

A standard (good) loadout for might is a 4 slot rotation. With the 5th and 6th slot being used for robot sidekick and a supercharge. So typically a rotation would use 4 abilities. You would often times be using 123 123 123, 123124 123124, or something similar. Typically speaking this is easier to use as you can typically dps with literally 1 hand. Most might don’t require much clipping and the skill then comes from weapon weaving (which only adds a little bit of damage) and knowing which of your abilities deals the least amount of damage so replacing that portion of your rotation to use your orbital/SCs.


As a prec you also have the same limitations of needing 2 loadout slots for rsk and a SC. But you also require a 3rd slot for your weapon buff. So you need a 3 power rotation. The difference here comes that you must also consider the dovetails of abilities when trying to do an optimal loadout. On top of that you actually require clipping as standard rotation. You need to clip the weapon combo to do damage. If you clip to late your dps goes down. If you clip to early you lose out all damage.


Difficulty really comes down to muscle memory. Difficulty imo:
Hardest
Prec gadgets
Prec might

Difficult
Might gadgets
Might mental
Might HL
Prec/Might nature

Average
Might celestial
Prec general
Might rage
Might atomic
Might water
Might earth

Easy
Might sorc
Might quantum
Might electric
Might fire
Might ice

Very easy
Might munitions


The more clipping is require the harder it is. The less clipping or even button inputs require the easier it is.

You forget that might users need to change their rotations during the fight because they can't switch between aoe and st so easily like prec players by switching weapon. I still say, prec is 123, 124, 125 no matter it's aoe or st (1 and 2 are tap rane, hold range, 345 are powers or consumables to clip or dot. Ofc, with stealth or other cippable powers it's one more button. As a might user I need to build a mixed loedout I can use for both st or aoe. Prec is way more easier imo.

I also change my armories between AoE and ST as prec. Just because some aren’t doesn’t mean prec as a whole doesn’t.

And no it is not 123 124 125 with prec.

Ability 1, weapon buff, ability 3, ability 4

So it’s: 1/2 > tap > hold/3 > tap > hold/4
Where might is 1 > 2 > 3


Whether you admit it or not doesn’t change how the inputs actually get used. A general prec build does in fact use more input commands than standard 123 might powers. It’s even more true for channeled might abilities which most use through finishers, HV, anf FB (FB being the most skill based of the 3 due to the second tick clip).

Combo powers (other than HL) are on par with general prec with celestial being harder because it can be interrupted a lot easier than the others and is more subject to damage loss. HL has more combos and the stronger combos are faster clips and propel you forward. So it’s more skill based than prec. Nature is technically a 123 power. But require far more knowledge and battle awareness than other powers. So it’s easier to run a suboptimal build most of the time and easier more subject to damage loss through poison loss. And mental and gadgets have triple+ clips which most can’t even do properly.

Really? How? I mean You can't change your armory whenever you want to. It's under cooldown. If me as might player wanna switch from st to aoe during a fight I can do that only once then I'm stuck in aoe for 5min(?). But you as prec can switch weapon whenever you want which might not give you the full potential of aoe dmg because your loadout still the same but your weapon dmg gives you 90% of your aoe dmg at least. Eg. I use my st might loadout then a few adds come and I keep attacking with st. You use your st prec loadout, adds come, you switch your weapon and continue your rotation. If our dmg were equal in both st and aoe, now you would make a lot more dmg just by switching weapon. That's why I need to build a mixed loadout I can run with to sompensate this situation somehow. But it's nearly impossibly against prec.

You basically wrote the same. I just forgot wp buff but that you need to use in every 12 sec. Let's say, prec loaoduts are not harder than might ones at all. You keep the same rotations all the time. Not mentioning macro, hmm....

A good might player doesn't use 12345 loadout. What's the point to place a fix dot pool when adds just simply walk out of it or tank pulls them over? We don't fight sparring targets in contents.
I agree with you on the rest.

You don't spam 123456 lmaoooo might involves waaaayyyy more work I swap 11 artifacts to just keep up with prec

Again…. I just said that I swift armories too. Just because all YouTube show the exact same loadout does mean it’s what is most optimal or that it’s what everyone uses. I have said that I’m flight. So yes prec utilizes armories like might.

And no. What you said is not the same thing. Prec clipping is not the same as 123 at all. You can claim this all you want. Does not make it true. I’ve already explained that you have to do a combo and clip it with an ability. Use it to soon and you get no damage. Clip to late and you lower your dps. This is nothing at all like 123 where you’re just hitting 3 abilities back to back.


And where did I say 12345? At this point you aren’t even reading and are just making things up. I’ve already explained (again) that might loadouts typically revolve around a 4 try rotation and 2 slots are occupied by rsk and a sc. I’ve also explained that rotations involving 4 slots can be done a few ways and even gave examples. And have ex’s planned that the optimization comes from knowing the low point of your rotation and know what is most optimal to replace with an orbital/SC. But guess what. Prec also deals with that. Prec also has 2 slots dedicated to rsk and a sc. plus a 3rd slot being occupied by a weapon buff. So while a might rotation revolves around 4 slots, prec revolves around 3. And might channels also allows for slower rotations (easier) which is in pretty all might ST rotations.

Just to keep up with prec? So you’re saying that Gi wasn’t swapping too in the video you showed? lol…

I believe prec will always do more damage than might with similar SP and no or low arts, like your video shows. You just have to have enough SP for brawling shuriken storm, and dual wield flurry shot combos, all your crits, and max prec after that.

During mid fight you simply swap your weapon to go from single target to AOE. I'm not sure any might power can keep up with prec on AOE damage. Maybe electric with arc and Tesla ball? 2nd boss CTE is a good example how prec is superior for quickly clearing the ghosts. Any electric might dps with arc or TB is losing single target max damage on the boss.

I'm not saying might can't do well. As your other video shows you can use ebon to keep might stacks high. I think both might and prec players will do all the other swaps in a similar fashion, like stone, dead king, mercy, scrap, eog, etc. When cool downs are ready.

Why do you want to overcomplicating things? You're talking to me if I never used prec prec before. Now you're gonna say, I used it wrong way and never mastered it.. Bet.
It's simply af. If you struggle to use it then you doing something wrong. As many ppl has said prec is the easiest and boring. And op compared to might. But let's say this is only my opinion. Play prec if you like it even if it's hard for you but devs should nerf it obviously. In my opinion. Thank you.

How is it over complication? You literally require more input commands with prec compared to might. You literally require more timing with prec over might. It’s literally doing more by design.

Opinion have absolutely nothing to do with whether something should be buffed or nerfed. It’s about statistical data. If A does 100k and B does 80k than adjustments are needed. If A does 100k and B does 100k than an adjustment is not needed. You saying “I don’t like it and I get beat by prec so obviously prec needs a nerf” is not reason to nerf things. I out dps both prec and might players on my troll. Does that mean trolls need a nerf or does it mean that there are bad players who don’t know how to dps? I’ve put dpsed players with max arts on my farmer toons back when they had 120 arts and 200sp. Does that mean I was using something broken? No. It means those players I out performed were just bad.


When might is used properly it can and has performed as good as prec if not better. But because there are bad might players prec needs a nerf? The reason the average prec player is better than the average might players is because once you get muscle memory down everyone uses the same YouTube builds so at that point it’s hard to mess up to badly. With might since it’s easy and low muscle memory is required it comes down more to the loadout and rotation. Which most YouTube loadouts are terrible.


So yes, just because you get beat by someone doesn’t mean what that person is using something broken. When I get out dpsed the first thing I do isn’t go to the forums crying. I go and see if there’s anywhere I can improve.

1. I never said I got beaten by prec players.
2. If you're so op with might even without maxed arts, show it!!! Otherwise you're just talking bs. Sorry but these are just empty words. Show me real datas then! If you can...
3. Seems the one crying here is you meanwhile you desperately keep trying to defend prec. I don't know why. You're afraid with nerfing prec you would lose your top dmg?

You know, I posted a video in another thread about a guy beating solo elite in 3:34 with prec. Do it with a might if you can, and I'll admit that prec is not op. Deal?

You’re the one who said the only way you are beating prec as might is by art swapping. You “proof” of such a feat if you out dpsing your friend who you claim was the best prec player ever. And in said video you showed that he too was art swapping. So you were both swapping and you claim the only reason you beat him was because you had to art swap even thou he was doing it too? So if both are swapping and you out dpsed him as might but claim prec needs a nerf?

The one crying is you? I have 2 might toons and 1 prec for my mains. Yet I’m trying to keep prec op while having more might toons?

Do you know see how ridiculous you sound? You’re trying to get a playstyle you claim to not have any issues beating nerfed while saying it’s to strong while beating them..

Pre has always had the upper hand in the game!!! I have played in groups with pre players with less gear and lower arts doing very well out damaging might players with maxed arts and better gear.

Ever stop to consider that those might players were just not good? I’d assume that about 70% of the dps are not that good. When I pug as a troll I’m normally first or second on the scoreboard. And I’m set up as a buff troll. So I’m buffing the other dps.

I watched that speed run battle for a bit, at one point there were at least three people competing. It seemed to mostly be a gadgets prec and a rage prec that had a $20 dollar bet but there was a rage melee might that was also posting videos for a bit. Idk if the rage melee might gave up but they haven't post a video since Nov 5, they were faster than the rage prec at the time by quite a bit. The Rage prec kept running it until they were 3:34, though.



The thing about speed running like this, picking the right tactics and loadout is only part of it, you also need to get lucky on when and how you crit and sometimes just the layout of adds and the boss AI. That's why XIn, the one you posted with 3:34 time has some streams of them running the solo for hours at a time trying for the lowest time possible. JasonTodd might be able to beat 3:34 with melee might but to do so will take a lot of runs for things to line up and I'm not sure if they are really interested in chasing it anymore as they might be on break from the game.

Sometimes the dps videos are bad examples to decide balancing things, I saw the OP forming groups for USr for hours yesterday on his Superclip toon, I imagine he is looking for just the right video to post to make prec look broken. And OP says as much in the comments of the initial video they posted.

I think prec and might are fairly close together in potential but that prec has several advantages that might can't access as easily but that might has some advantage over prec. I don't think prec really needs to be nerfed or that super speed clips need to be removed. I think might can buffed if it needs to be and I think all movement abilities should be moved to the Iconic tree so that any movement can use things like phase dodge, perfect poise, or w/e movement powers they want. Some movement abilities wouldn't work as iconics, the dive bomb for instance would only work if triggered on after a double jump or dropping from a height, but those that can be used by any power should be. Just removing the super speed clips would nerf prec but it wouldn't touch gadgets prec at all since gadgets has access to jump clips from suppressor turret and the mines.

Prec has flexibility and mobility and MIght has an easier time to swap arts while in channel powers without losing as much damage as prec might if prec swaps during a wm combo. Which is easier is more of a personal opinion and player ability, I mean, I really like gadgets prec and the flow of it but I just bounce off of gadgets might and gadgets might feels more difficult to me. Prec is often more actions per minute but loadouts for prec are much easier to create between powers since they require less testing and you usually have fewer reasons to alter your loadout between fights.

Also, in regards to the initial video posting that it was done without augments, the video is from USr which is omnibus, the way the scaling works, the difference between proper augs and running like resto augs is not a huge amount, I think augs give about 1-2% stat increase, skill points and arts give the largest increase in damage and stat for omnibus content. The OP could have gone in with just a weapon and arts equipped and still done well because the clamp would adjust their stats to the baseline for the instance. OP is probably well aware of this and part of the reason they picked USr is because it's add heavy and brawling aoe is strong, made stronger by using electric and arc lightning and eog.

There are balancing issues in the game, but, trying to cherry pick video evidence to nerf something you think is "too easy" isn't the way to go. The devs need to do a balance pass but people need to stop trying to skew the evidence like this. How many times did Xin run the solo before they got 3:34, how many times did OP run USr before they got the video they wanted for this thread? There are many things in the game that need to be looked at and balanced, supercharges being a big one, but balance passes take a lot of time to do right and can be very tricky, hopefully it's more than just Ranmaru on the balancing team since it'd be a daunting task for one dev to do themselves.

Edit: posted wrong link at first

That can be a possibility, but that being said, maybe the might player was a good player or maybe the prec player wasn’t a good player as well… I can assure that there are both prec and might players in my league that are very good, but as expected prec shows the better dps.

If I were the tank, or any other member in a group that was completely ignoring mechanics and scoreboard chasing like this, I would be pissed....especially considering the tank was running for their life from a buffed boss (2nd boss)...and no mechanics were even followed on the last boss...hell, the player was so busy in his inventory he was dpsing an immune ad on the last portion of the raid before he eventually started doing mechanics.

But, I can almost guarantee that the leader of the meaningless scoreboard will be pounding their chest claiming how great of a player they are...

But you’re basing it off limited factors thou. I play regularly with a few leagues when I’m not pugging. I’m normally top dps regardless if I’m in my prec or might toons. People say “so and so is a great dps. They’re always top dps”. But then I see their dps is about 70-80% of my damage. (No shade at them). But people always assume they are the best and when they get beat they make excuses as to why they were out performed. “They are prec”, “they were gadgets/electric”, “they were swapping”, “they are speed”, “they weren’t following mechanics”, etc.

The issue I have with this mentality is that no one wants to accept that maybe they themselves are not as experienced as they think they are. At this moment the people who do out dps me are art swapping while I am not. And that is perfectly fine. Even when I lose I enjoy it and want to see where I can improve within what I am willing to do. And everyone once in a while I’ll run into someone who beats me that isn’t swapping and it’s even better. When I finish everything I wanted to do I normally spend my time on the sparring targets.