Stats Revamp 1.3!

You're still didn't explain how 5-1-1-1 was easier. You just went on a rant about dps doing pickups. You think that's gonna change with 2-2-2-2? Why pick up a healer when the group has another one? Me personally I like to challenge myself. I like solo healing SM till it's not possible anymore before having the backup heal switch. But I guess some players don't enjoy the challenge and would rather have a safety net ( the backup heal or troll ).

So, I tested on UT alert.
Ended up with a dps (with dps gear) a tank (with tank gear) and a troller in troll gear.
I was specced out as a troller with troll gear and they asked me to go dps.
I did.
Group was then made of a troller, a tank and two dps (one - myself - with an absolute borked spec and also completely new to the mental powerset, as I'm used to light).
We made it through mostly unscathed. On my side was due to the fact that it was my first time running that alert, as my main on live is 145.
Pace felt right, boss fights were mostly fast, safe the minotaur where we had some issues in directing him to break the chains.
Final dps score:
* dps 8M+
* troll 3.2M
* troll acting as dps (me) 3.1M
* tank: 2.8M (don't remember exactly)

Now the playstyle, I started playing alternating tray powers with weapon, but as long as I did not pick up any WM combos, I ended up playing mostly from the tray. I used weapons sparely to recharge my power bar when it was heavily depleted or my entire tray was in cooldown. Overall I didn't feel I needed power and I chugged colas only to heal myself and not for power.
The loadout: Telekinesis, Telekinetic bolt, Telekinetic push, Meance, horrific visage, bolt barrage
A note on the supercharge, I could use it quite often and the supercharge bar was charging quite "fast". Between supercharge power and mobs I ended up using it at least twice per boss with no issues.
My stats, cr 173, full ep 26 gear, stat points 20% crit power chance, 20% crit power magnitude, 135 pt vitalization.

If I had dps gear on, I think we would have burned through the content. Probably too fast. It seems we didn't have much of AFIII vendor gear on (didn't check thoughroughly).
Given the similar output of me and the troller, we were probably specced exactly the same (same gear, similar stats allocation), it's an hypotesis, given that it was said that role specific bonus damages have been removed.
Is it a good thing that you can focus on a spec and still be reasonable effective in the off role? Yes it is. I wonder how we'd done with two trollers. Probably as well as we'd be able to lockdown everything with ccs.
Is it a good thing that you're not forced into the 1-1-1-1 group composition in an alert? Yes it is.
On the flip side, does stat really matter? not so much, it's the_gear_ that makes the most. The extra stats point seems adding a few % points.

There are some other concerns that I don't want to express in this thread, it's long enough. I'll make another one. I know this is a complete rewrite and revamp of the basic system of the game, but I am afraid that this could turn into a DCUO NGE.

The change was not necessary and yes the buff need to be reverted back to full duration of 12 sec but they also said its not intended to use a weapon buff for the PftT playstyle.

So mental not going back to how it used to be is okay with you? A silly pull for a move that was changed because nobody wanted an encasement on a SC builder, now it's no longer the case and thought bubble is gone with a completely irrelevant move in its place.

If solo trolling is going to remain a thing for the skilled only, then we're no better off now than live. There's not many who are that capable and the demand for 5111 isn't going to change. Trolls will always be an extension of the blue bar which is very very sad because the role itself is more dynamic than any content dictates.

You know, after playing the V1.3 Version of healing which I know isn't perfect I am really beyond losing patience, Mepps stated they aren't going for a 2-2-2-2 group setup and therefore it would have stand to reason that the Healer mechanics would have been reverted to their live versions and then improvements made upon those. This hasn't been done and only some of the suggestions that myself and others suggested were taken into account.

Sorcery and Electric healing struggled to solo heal very difficult content to begin with so when the test version nurtured them even more I was really shocked, when I first heard that this revamp would do more than touch the DPS side I was really excited, I thought this would finally bring those two powers up to standard so it wouldn't just be this rat race of either Nature or Celestial healing for difficult end tier content / feats. It baffles me to the extent the developers went to further reduce the players capability of performing with their support role since this community is already struggling to find people willing to play these roles.

On top of this, the changes to support are the first major nerfs they've received in capabilities in the entire game, every update the support role has received was to help it compete with every option available in their role, this obviously became non-existent after weapon mastery, it was all about DPS updates every patch with no love for support. The reason there was no outcry for support updates by the community because powers like Ice, Rage, Nature and Celestial were light years in achieving the desired result by performing their mechanics correctly - more rewarding than the other variations of tanking or healing in their role and because of this people playing support would just stick to one of these power sets if they were mostly a dedicated support. There are hundreds of Ice DPS because it's mind numbing easy and effective, but how many of these people have their support role gear or actively use their secondary role - do they know anything about how to use their tanking abilities correctly? I doubt it.

I am a dedicated Healer and yes I am the stereotype who only plays Nature or Celestial as they are the most effective in keeping people alive effectively in difficult content, when I mean difficult content I mean content that was actually difficult at relevant CR / gear standards at their prime, this means SM, Paradox, Nexus, PBG and a few of the new elite raids. Whenever there isn't challenging content in game I usually switch to Sorcery or Electric because after 5 years of playing I'm just tired of only having two options, two comfort powers which I know can keep people alive that Sorcery or Electric would just be impossible to do so.

Support roles didn't need the type of changes made here. You want to enforce 2-2-2-2? Make difficult content, case in point TOTDe, DWFe, GOMe. You want to enforce 2 controllers? Remove powerback, introduce mechanics that require the controllers to CC. Most difficult content uses 2 tanks already so that's one check, enforce 2 healers? Remove nature bug form powerback and revert it's costs and make things hit HARD.

You can call people like me elitists, which I think this term is stupid. I am not an elitist, I just enjoyed playing this game a lot and learned a lot of how and why certain things can't work in situations, if people don't know what they're doing I help, I love informing people on how to better their ability to heal because it builds on a better player base, I don't go out of my way to scrutinize someone, they come to me because they know that they'll get good feedback on how to better their game play.

Now the issue is quite a few of these players are expressing their opinions and are just being ignored as far as I can see, there's no insight to why decisions are being made and each update that comes out after 10+ pages of feedback is more or less the same with minor tweaks. "Improved power regen / lower cooldown for 1 ability" Why bring out these changes? Why not just go back to what works and improve on those from the live servers?

And lastly, for those of you who just say "This forum is for testing feedback". Well this is feedback, I've tested and whether it's desired or not I'm comparing to the live version because the game plays exactly the same, the raids, the bosses, the ads do exactly the same things, it's just us that's really weaker because powers have less functionality. Anyone who doesn't compare to the live server has no idea what these changes will do to the mass populous of the game because they don't understand it. Zeus has the same attack strength on live and test, his abilities hit the same, me as a healer I use my priority heal to heal the tank whose lost half his life, on live, with the standard restoration I will heal him in two casts if there's no crit, this version of test I can spam it much more and it may have a lower power cost but I am in the animation for that priority heal so much longer because I have to cast it more times than two to bring him back to full life, during this time other people can take damage to which I can't react accordingly since I'm still trying to heal the tank to full life - It's not that I can't react as my reactions are slow but I'm in animation or waiting for a cooldown or my abilities have less functionality to let me heal accordingly.

You can have all the data you want but it won't ever tell you how you need to react to a situation and utilize your kit effectively to achieve perfection, if you don't play at this high end the next best thing is to ask people who have, not your internal team, actual players and leagues who consistently beat and crave challenging content and have been around for a long time because these are the people who will end up giving you true balance.

I got to agree with celestial powers. If they are no longer forcing the 2x4 makeup by essentially nerfing the roles capabilities they should remove that part from the equation for this update. Healers especially have it hard enough based on power set and content. People do prefer specific powers over others.

I really do think healers need a restoration reduction and the two on test need a buff. Nature and celestial are very strong healers while electric and sorcery have some issues on live. Especially electric.

5-1-1-1 is a problem in the game already so I'm not sure why you'd specifically program for it. Feedback is important but at the end of the day the game should be delivered as designed by a Dev team not a player base. Testing feedback by a player base that potentially doesn't enjoy difficulty and just wants to spam replays for gear won't help the longevity of the game as a whole.

The game was at its best in the first couple of years when groups wouldn't dream of going in without a 2-2-2-2 setup. Often content required even more support roles to survive. Be wary of the glass cannon approach.

I'm sorry but 2-2-2-2 was prefered in start, not the only way to run a raid. In fact the best players solo- trolled/healed/tanked raids since before FOS, now you barely see a 2-2-2-2 group no matter what content you run, 5-1-1-1 is the norm in most content.
This game has always been dps heavy, dps has always been the prefered role, forcing 2-2-2-2 would do more harm than good. However making players wanna run support, need to be strengthened.
I do agree however that the content in general is to easy, with a few good exceptions.
Here is why we the players deliver the feedback:

Company tells devs to make them money, devs make product, players test product deliver feedback to devs, devs see their visions arent working or need improving, devs adjust content, players test, players are happy, company makes money.

Alternative: Company wants money, devs change product, players dislike the change stops playing., devs try again tells players how to play, player dont like stops playing.
Off course in the alternative devs can hit what the players want, but the chance is lower, and you more often end up with a product alienating even more.

I like the buisness modell they try to run called the "Lean buisness modell" i belive (im no buisness major), where they deliver a product and adjust based on feedback. If they never had done this in past the game wouldn't live anymore. In my experience the parts where they dont involve the players at different stages of the game, are the ones that gets the most negativity and the reason for most players leaving.

I do see your point though, as many players don't even know what they want, AF3 proved that for many I know, so many stated they didn't mind the grind, and so many have left or are on breaks because doing the same content, every day for several months have made them bored af. Mepps saying grind is longlivety is to me BS as in my opinion it will kill off the game if it continues being as much as af3 and the content so little rewarding.

I'm not currently on test, but the revamp are currently on course of driving me away from the game, at 1.0 it was a big probabilty that i would leave if it hit live, 1.1 the probability decreased some, same with 1.2 and 1.3, this is due to player feedback, and i know others are in the same situation.

How is 5-1-1-1 an issue? The majority of players outside the forums would rather have that setup. 2x4 setup means we need more support roles. That's not the way to get people to play support. Gotta make it fun to play another role. And yeah the game was more populated in the beginning but that's like every other game. The early content is bad. So bad didn't the original dev team get fired? Batcave raids are the worst. T4 was the height of dcuo in my opinion and by that time there was already heals and trolls able to solo. Not till OC was it recommended due to the enrage timers.

Not trying to be rude, but it's only you and a small handful of people complaining about mental. I used it to troll, I enjoyed myself. It felt nice being able to substitute PoT in with invisibility for more tactical play style. Even the ambush abilities for invisibility was doing relevant damage. I'm sorry if you're upset over the changes, but I had fun. I didn't use telekinetic pull or psychic prison, so I can't speak on them


As far as solo trolling after the revamp, as someone who pugs often, there won't be a lot of skilled trolls out there capable of doing it. I still see two trolls being the normal.

A final word from me.

I don't have time to test; but I've been reading through the various feedback, and the thing that jumped out at me most from this latest version was the guy on test who said he was 170+ CR and couldn't beat a mist infused bounty. That content is three years old. He should have double the CR of that enemy and couldn't beat it. This tells me that the days of out gearing content are done. If you can't get it the first week, you'll never get it.

But hey, those nabs gotta go, right?

There's not a lot wrong with the way the game is on live; and this revamp has made that clear. Be honest - if you had to choose, do you wish you had live instead of this?

Just have to enjoy it while it lasts and move on.

That's because CR Differential is gone on Test. I would definitely take that over Live as CR Differential was a huge mistake that made RNG gear matter over individual skill.

How is the earlier content bad? Inner Sanctum was a beast of raid in it's day. Every boss fight in that raid is incredible. Countless hours and strategies later we got it done but it took some tenacity. I actually took a photograph of the first time we beat Brother Eye because it felt like an accomplishment.

DCUO is beastmode on only now. 1 healer out of 8 players? How can any content be a challenge if you only need 1 healer? The only way to give any kind of challenge with that kind of healing power is to diminish a lot of health bars quickly... meaning.... (The one shot).

Everything else about DCUO is a grind, why aren't the raids anymore? Where is the skill in spamming a rotation for top scorecard spot?

-Trash adds should have less health and more hit.
-Boss fights should make you nervous and not annoy you that you can't get through them fast enough.
-Boss fights should NOT be everyone DPS like mad until someone yells BLOCK for the one shot.
-A single Tank should have to be 100% on point to survive even a hallway in a raid.
-Controlling adds and using power wisely should be vital parts of a team's survival strategy.
-Boss fights should not need "enrage" timers... it should be obvious by that point that the team is doomed.


If you want to log on, spam a rotation while checking your Instagram for 20 minutes, then complain about how this stuff takes too long.. oh well... need that gear... replay.... then this is your game.

Below is archive threads on various complaint's from back in 2013 and 2014.

There is actually 1 video showing a solo Troll in a group going for Prime back in 2013/2014, lol.

Going solo back then meant something, a very patient group and a very skilled player could do it.

But if you read through the pages in the link, running anything but Tanking solo was not the norm back in the day, well after 2012 anyway, unless you were deathmike.

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dcuo/index.php?threads/trolling-boring.187777/page-3#post-2256032
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/...a-little-bit-tired-about-solo-healing.178778/

What about how we have it now w/o the cr differential? Which is what everyone expected when they announced it.

I said the best players could solo, didn't I?
At the first 4 tiers all the way from around the time of the 2011 hack, i was in content with solo tank, troll and/or healer. 1 reason was that finding support roles was hard (even when most wanted 2-2-2-2).
I remember finnishing PBG when it was the top raid running 5-1-1-1 when i was fire tanking.
A huge reason for people wanting 2-2-2-2 back then was that so many didnt understand their roles. If you understood your roles you would master them (for dps that included wep clipping which i hate). At t3 and t4 i solo tanked and trolled, and sometimes solo healed. I was a good tank, but not that great of a troll or healer. I ran with the old league i was a member of then, sometimes we included pugs or new members, but we thought them, and with the exception of PBG we always suceeded with pugs and newbies even if not 2-2-2-2 group or 3-1-2-2 for that matter. The league i was in was good, but not the best, far from it, as there was to many jumping ships for that.

I made my League in 2013 and from around that time 4 or 5 dps was usually the norm. 2-2-2-2 was in my experience as a evolving player (i was a huge noob in 2011 this is my first and only mmo), never the norm unless you completely pugged as I did when i was a " member" of DC infinite, the league that never was a league with 1500+ members, and were I got league chat response 1 time.
The 2-2-2-2 as the norm was in my recollection a non existant norm for the people who knew the game. I will say that it probably took me around 3-4 months before i actually joined a group before I entered a raid, all the previous ones was q-ins which usually ended in fails (reason why i still hate kahndaq i believe).
Off course some didn't like to solo their role, off course because of players lacking basic knowledge of how the game and it's combat system worked (much due to non existant tutorial) in some groups solo healing or trolling wasn't an option, and off course others experience might differ from mine. Only thing im saying is that 2-2-2-2 was basically never really needed, and my experience not ever really the norm, heck we usually did FOS2 with 1 tank and 1 troll helping to pull off the bridge.

With OC and T5 being released 2-2-2-2 groups were removed completely in nexus, as the DPS needed to be high for bosses not to get adds. In Para we some times ran 2-2-2-2 but that was due to me and my mate being fire tanks and having no real possibility of soloing in that raid at launch, also 2 trolls due to heavy debuffing and 2 healers because of the insane damage you took in there. Almost everything some of the sub-bosses did would kill you as a fire-tank back then, our solution: range tanking, but we also figured 2 healers didnt help much as we mostly died of 1 shots, so running 2-2-2-2 didnt happen often. Paradox was overkill, it had to many 1 shots and is a bad example of 2-2-2-2 content, I'm just blabbering on about my experience in this game at this moment lol.

Debuffing or buffing roles are not the way to go IMO making smart content is (ie. last boss AF3). And since armories are in place, no one needs to be in support entire time unless content requires it.

Finding complaint threads are the easiest thing you can do on this forum. Some complaints are about content not being hard enough, others for not being easy enough, some for having to run with to many support roles, some for having to run with to few, some for playing support roles are boring, others for playing dps is boring, some for dpses not doing their job except dmg, others for support roles not doing their job good enough. There are tons of threads complaining about something, and often as many or more threads contradicting what is stated in the those threads.

Thanks man, I did read that ages ages ago, I have 260sp earth dps at 175 and yet my friend with only 113sp at 175 fire tankdestroys me

My experience probably differs from yours.
Here's mine:
Scoreboard chasers always existed in this game
Clipping has never been much harder thant let's say mentals 1234 (with menace and invisibility) but just knowing how to use an exploit.
Inner sanctum 1st boss was more about luck than skill, heavy dps made the luck part less. 2nd boss also required heavy dps as the healer bots shouldn't reach the boss.
The one shot never actually made another healer needed, as it was a 1-shot.

That being said, i agree in most what you say in here, but imo its to late for DCUO to turn 2-2-2-2, or bring back the 4 hour raids (no raid in this game has ever been that long but you accepted to grind it for that long if you had the time). Mind you it was mostly player skill being low (mostly due to bad tutorials and explaining of game mechanics) that made the raids grindy in the past, they were harder than AF3 ones (which are stupid easy on normal, specially Oly), but few actually hard for 8 good players, and soloing did in my experience happen in all tiers even at the start of the game.

I do miss completing an hallway or a bridge or a tunnel or an open area full of adds for that matter to be an achievment, not just tank and spank, and if you wipe you only come back to those still alive, in certain areas they should respawn if you as an group fails.

The block scream worked really well in LAW, and good in BBS.

Idm this game being dps heavy, nor running 5-1-1-1, however I do mind content being to easy as 90-95% of the content we get is. I do miss more good game mechanics. I do miss trolls CC and debuffing being extremly needed, and i do want the group buffs (which i think are disapearing) from healers to be needed, and as my main toon is a 6 yr old tank i really want the cleanses to work and be needed. I cant remember them ever working, it would be really good for a fire tank as a heal debuff basically makes us really weak dpses, and content and boss fights could use more group debuffs were a tank can save or help entire group by do a cleanse.

What do you mean? Are you asking how I like it now on Test?

Yes, how we have it now vs test w/o cr differential. If that is all they changed.