Stats Revamp 1.3!

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Avair, Jan 27, 2017.

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  1. loupblanc Dedicated Player


    Only logical way, from what I can see, is to have a trigger / toggle, much like the AM trigger. Thus one can switch between the 3 styles (WF, Hybrid, PFT). It also makes the 3 styles clearly separate, and allows each to have their own distinct buff. If there is no hard separation on the backend, then no mattter what you tweak, Hybrid will forever be THE way to go and anything else will be inferior, much like how AM versus non-AM is, but not as severe, like double damage, versus the AM difference (5 to 10 times difference).

    Eventually, the whole thing becomes akin to a AM Lite system. Having a trigger / toggle invariably leads to the next problem, loadout limitation.

    Thus, to prevent this loadout limitation, where a slot has to be sacrificed for the trigger / toggle, have this new trigger / toggle not take up a power slot, but instead be a new key, to be assigned accordingly by the player in Key Bindings, with the following options.

    Weapon Focus - have a buff similar to and stackable with Relentless Precision. Any time buff is active, player is vulnerable to block (3 continuous taps, or 3 collected taps on block). Buff has some ramp up time.
    Hybrid - have a buff with reduced cooldown and increased movement for every X seconds. Any time buff is active, player is vulnerable to blockbreak. Buff has some ramp up time.
    Play from Tray - have a buff similar to and stackable with Escalating Might. Any time buff is active, player is vulnerable to Lunge. Buff has some ramp up time.
    Support 1 (pure Heal / Troll / Tank) - have a buff similar to and stackable with Support Role Neck Mod. Any time buff is active, player is vulnerable to Lunge. Buff has some ramp up time.
    Support 2 (Battle Heal / Troll / Tank) - have a buff similar to and stackable with Relentless Precision/Escalating Might. Any time buff is active, player is vulnerable to block (3 continuous taps, or 3 collected taps on block). Buff has some ramp up time.
    Off - Trigger off buff. You are vulnerable to lunge only for the duration of the Off animation. After that, standard weapon vulnerability applies (Lunge, Blockbreak, Block).

    6 new keys, 5 possible ways of playing with a buff (WF, Hybrid, Play from Tray, Support 1, Support 2), and 1 off switch. Each Buff playstyle can be assigned to one armory. The armory can also be assigned with no Playstyle. The player would thus have to hit the assigned key to get to the preferred buff playstyle.

    With this new trigger / toggle:
    - Animation same as current armory animation.
    - Animation time to be longer than current armory animation. Armory animation to also be increased to the same.
    - Animation to be vulnerable to lunge.
    - Cannot be used to clip any weapon combo, power, trinket etc. This prevents the emergence of a SUPER HYBRID, who clips between WF, Hybrid and Play from Tray. The non-clipping limitation, increased animation time, and vulnerabilities.

    Each buff has a new buff icon, to distinguish from current buff icon such as consumable buffs, granting group bonus eg Compound Omegas.
    Weapon Focus - new White Crosshair icon shown after trigger is hit, and ramp-up time is hit, and buff is active.
    Hybrid - new half White half Yellow Crosshair icon shown after trigger is hit, and ramp-up time is hit, and buff is active.
    Play from Tray - new Yellow Crosshair icon shown after trigger is hit, and ramp-up time is hit, and buff is active.
    Support 1 - new Support icon (leaf for Heal, rock for Tank, smiley face for troll) shown after trigger is hit, and ramp-up time is hit, and buff is active.
    Support 2 - new Yellow Crosshair icon shown after trigger is hit, and ramp-up time is hit, and buff is active.

    You need to clearly separate the 3 playstyles via a separate mechanism with distinct vulnerabilities and clip switching between the playstyles requires time due to length of animation.

    Committing to 1 playstyle reduces you to being vulnerable for that playstyle only. Constant switching opens you up to lengthy animation time and vulnerability when switching.

    Or the new Pvp meta will be the SUPER HYBRID, clipping between each playstyle like a mad f***, and inviting calls of HACKER! from players who cannot clip between the playstyles like mad, for whatever reason.
  2. loupblanc Dedicated Player

    No, cos then you are basically restricting Stat Revamp to Legendary or Premium with access to Tactical mods.

    F2P and Premium with no access to Tactical mods have no benefit from the Stat Revamp.
  3. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    In that regard, instead of a white mod, maybe a new type of mod that has a restriction/buff to the specific playstyle you want to yeild.

    Also instead of quoting above to the one you replied to me with, a new toggle switch would work for PC players, but you have to think of players that use controllers. If I remember right, there is only one button that doesn't get used much, which is the collection button that used to collect loot when the game first launched. I think it was both bumpers?
  4. Avair Lead Systems

    You are wrong here. This is the first time I can remember someone wanting me to say they are wrong!

    Honestly, the options on the table are open as far as adjusting skill points and their interactions with stats, options are open regarding how to best accommodate play styles, options are open in the very specific changes we make to power sets, but this is by no means a complete rework of power sets. We intend to keep the flavor and essence of the power sets as they are because, frankly, we like them and our players like them (there will always be some that need work).

    In game design it is important to have a plan, which we do. however, it is equally important to understand that your plan, however well thought out, may not be perfect (it usually isn't) and that you will need to adjust along the way. This is why it is ever important for us to have design philosophies and stick to them as we design the game. Early in the revamp we identified some limits that we wanted to stay within. We know that if we stay within those limits, whatever specific change we make will still allow DCUO to remain feeling like DCUO.

    It's late and I can't find the post right now, but it's there, I promise!
    • Like x 2
  5. Avair Lead Systems

    You point out the exact messaging problem we have with the system. We are working on ways to make this more clear to players.
    • Like x 1
  6. The Jelly Bean Dedicated Player


    The only way to keep 3 different playstyles is the segregate them into their own category. What this will do is allow a player to choose a playstyle and then their powers/weapons will be adjusted accordingly. Please pay attention below:

    1. From the tray: the player chooses this option and will use his or her loadout to do damage to enemies. This would be the Advanced Mechanic we have right now except for the damage is smaller as the boost is removed, more powers can be used, and power back is granted. Weapon is able to be used but will be ineffective against enemies, more or less it's there for a hit counter or a lunge/blockbreak. Damage from this category should be similar to the other two playstyles.

    2. Weapon only: the player chooses this option and will use his or her weapon to do damage to enemies. This would be consisting of regular weapon strikes consisting of combos, Weapon Mastery (non crit), and power tray consisting of only damage boosts and possible survivability protection such as shields and breakouts. Damage from this category should be similar to the other two playstyles.

    3. Hybrid: the player chooses this option and will use his or her powers and weapons to do damage to enemies. This would consist of using weapons to gain back power, lunge/blockbreak, and use powers to add additional damage to enemies by applying power interactions, dots, aoe's, burst damage, finishing powers, weapon buffs, and etc. Power is granted back by using the hit-counter with the weapon so more tray powers can supplement the weapon attacks that also includes weapon buffs. Damage from both weapon and tray powers complement each other and should be similar to the other two playstyles.

    So as you can see above is that you would have to segregate each into an option for them to be balanced. You will need to first set an overall damage goal that each can reach and maintain in combat. Then in each one you will have to buff the specified means of damage and decrease the other until it reaches that damage goal.

    Trying to balance them all as a whole will not work and therefore should be abondoned while still in the early testing phases. The hybrid style is what should be your target goal in the outcome as that is the only way on how to achieve balance in this game. Look at the feedback yourself, am's are to easy for dummies to figure out, weapons only is just (you do this the game will die) dumb, and using a weapon along with a power here'n'there is what is easy considering that's what we have and should be used.

    Devs and you too Mepps- please don't do anything stupid as it can cost you the game itself.
  7. loupblanc Dedicated Player

    I do not use Controller and hence have no idea how to incorporate new trigger / toggle for controller users. Controller users should suggest their own solution.

    The basic premise of a trigger / toggle (that you and others have suggested) is logical because without that, Hybrid will always be the superior build.

    Hybrid should have been the only build with the Stat Revamp, but because of AM, the possibility of mainly using powers 99.9% of the time was introduced. Though AM will be removed, users have come to expect that playstyle to still be accessible.
  8. Xibo Loyal Player

    Regarding the option 3: As already mentioned before, if you have a specific Might white mod or a specific Precision white mod you probably can solve the discrepancy between Powers and Weapons because the Hybrid combat is supposed to take more damage than the others.
  9. Winter Sabel Dedicated Player


    This is a must.
  10. Cold Fusion Well-Known Player

    True... I bought that Dlc along time ago and have been a member for a longtime so I forgot that everyone didn't have that... But the idea still has merit just not the perfect delivery system.
  11. tioalbert Well-Known Player

    hola buenas a todos

    primero aclaraciones desde mi conocimiento.

    1- PFT= gasto prioritario de sp en poder y secundario en fuerza, ¿por que?, si con mas fuerza=mas daño.
    Respuesta por la misma diferencia de tiempo y costo de energia gastada, entre un poder gama baja vs poder gama alta o vs supercarga poder del 50% o del 100%.
    se trata de daño por segundo, por este concepto los gamas bajas y medias con mas poder de respaldo terminan haciendo el mismo daño o mas que el uso constante de gama alta o supercarga poder de 50% y 100%, sin mermar o perder por completo la energia y permitir el seguir el ritmo sin uso de regeneracion de energia por arma.

    2-WME( especialista en armas)= gasto prioritario presicion y secundario en defensa, ¿defensa? de que hablas, si tambien requieren poder amigo.
    Respuesta en realidad arma no gasta poder constante como PFT o Hibrido, al contrario debe estar regenerando energia mas constante y usando poderes con menos frecuencia para no interrumpir combos, el incremento de defensa es por que recuerden el mayor daño de armas es cuerpo a cuerpo y no siempre tendras disponible un escudo, mas defensa menor daño por segundo recibido por enemigos o sea mas tiempo ya sea para causar maximo daño constante o retirarte de un inminente tiro mortal o calaverico de jefes.

    3-HIBRIDO= en fuerza o presicion segun la tendencia de uso de poderes o arma frecuente del jugador, mmm¿que no deveria ser puntos por igual a fuerza o presicion?, digo es hibrido que no?.
    Respuesta si es hibrido pero:
    1.- hay poderes que contribuyen con armas y otros no.
    2.-las tendencias de jugar pese a ser hibrido, ay jugadores que usan mas constante el uso de armas por tipo de poderes que usa y viseversa.
    3.- ejemplo, 6 ranuras de poder. ranura 6 mascota, ranura 5 supercarga, ranura 4 escudo mascota, ranura 3 circulo de destruccion, ranura 2 venganza y ranura 1 totem de almas(jugador1).
    Mientras(jugador2) 6 ranuras de poder, ranura 6 electrificar, ranura 5 supercarga, ranura 4 bola de tesla, ranura 3 auras electricas, ranura 2 arco, ranura 1 polarizar.
    4.- jugador 1 requiere mas presicion por que el uso de sus poderes no son instantaneos y duran mas tiempo en combate (significa que se vera obligado a usar mas seguido arma de lo que usa poder), mientras jugador 2 requiere mas fuerza por daño istantaneo y ritmo constante.

    A pocas palabras digamos que los poderes usados por WME lo ideal seria,
    1-poder de incremento de presicion y crit. de habilidades(similar a sanadores o rabia),
    2.- poder de escudo,
    3.-poder sanador personal (como cualquier otro excluyendo sanadores),
    4.-supercaarga que da incremento de presicion y crit(como rabia) o similares,
    5.-mascota(robot poder iconico) o torreta o de ultimo guardian en brujo.
    6.- poder de enraisamiento o aturdimieno o derribo.
    mientras los de PFT lo ideal es poderes que hagan daño y nada de soporte ni ayudantes 100% daños las 6 ranuras.
    y los HIBRIDOS lo ideal seria 3 ranuras soporte(incremento de daños en arma,mascota y escudo o sanacion) y 3 de daño.

    COMENTARIO
    en el juego actual fuera de pruebas tenemos 10 piezas de armadura para mods, de los cuales solo 4 dan criticos daño de habilidad, criticos daño arma, criticos de magnitud daños habilidad, criticos de magnitud arma.
    divididos crticos de arma y su magnitud en 2 piezas y criticos daños hablidad mas magnitud daños habilidad en las otras 2.

    SUGERENCIAS
    PFT= de las 10 piezas de armadura mods, 5 piezas crticos daños habilidad y 5 criticos de magnitud daños habilidad.

    MME=de las 10 piezas de armadura mods, 5 piezas criticos daños arma y 5 criticos de magnitud daños arma.

    HIBRIDOS= de las 10 piezas de armadura mods, solo usan 4 y dejan la configuracion como esta actualmente( osea habilidad y arma con sus magnitudes en 2 piezas cada una.)

    para los WME en maestria secundariadeberian dar 3 movimientos en cada una de las dos que hay.
    ejemplo yo uso arma mandoble principal y secundarias solo ay 2 de artes marciales y 2 de arco ( en estas 2 me gustaria una tercera opcion que sea usada con 1 solo presionar o pulsar).

    bueno y esto para que, pues por que con este me gustaria tuviese un efecto de daño derribo 360 grados alrededor de uno mismo,
    porque ay ocaciones que por lag, internet o aparato que uno tenga cuando llegas al lugar donde estan los enemigos la unica manera que notas que estan ahi es por puntos rojos en minimapa y daños recibidos, estos solo los puede dañar sin verlos con mascota, algun poder similar a totem o circulo de destruccion, pero en armas no ay nada que les haga daño si ver direccion de objetivo.

    tambien me gustaria que en WME con esas 3 opciones tuviese distintas magnitudes de daño y regeneracion de poder.
    ejemplo maestria secundaria arco de mandoble sabemos que una sola requiere 2 click para ejecutarla y puede ser interrumpida por enemigos,jefes,lags,uso de poderes de uno mismo y hasta errores de dedo, bueno si el uso de arma normal nos da solo un 5% de regen poder, esta maestria secundaria arco de 2 cliks deviese dar 15% de regen poder y los que son de 4 clicks o mas un 27% regeneracion poder mas posibilidad de un daño derribo al finalisar correctamente los clicks requeridos, con el total de daños por golpe tocado al objetivo durante la ejecucion, ejemplo estoy cuerpo a curpo o distancia, y de los 4 clicks mi objetivo solo recibio 2 entonces al concretar el ultimo click despues de recibir ese ultimo daño posiblemente el objetivo explotara y recibe el total de daños de eso 2 click que si alcansaron a pegar en objetivo esto ya sea con arma de efecto distancia cuerpoa cuerpo, media o larga.

    y para aclarar mi tendencia de juego es y sera hibrida no soy y nunca sere especialista en PFT O WME, pero me gusta ver como los especialistas se desarrollan bien en estas, en las 3 disancias distintas.

    P.D. sigo ansioso por estadisticas renovadas y el nuevo sistema salga, pero aunque me llegue a poner de mal humor por mi ansiedad, por favor tomense el tiempo necesario desarrolladores para que a la hora de su salida no requiera tiempo de ajustes o mantenimiento o actualisaciones relacionadas con problemas relacionadas a este lanzamiento por falta de tiempo o lanzarlo antes de tiempo, aun creo que van por buen camino.
  12. VioletSorceress Committed Player

    The only time Hybrid player would need to pick and maximize either Precision or Might is with Skill Points.
    After that Hybrid players can mix and match Prec and Might as much as they want when crafting and placing Gear and Generator mods and using sodas.

    The only way to change that is to make weapon combos that require multiple taps and holds to have much higher clipped DPS potential than Solar Flare and all other short weapon combos.

    Currently, there are examples of weapons with pretty low or close to none clipped Dps potential like Rifle, Bow and Pistols. These would be good candidates to be adjusted for pure Weapon usage play styles. I saw tons of newbies in Anniversary event running around with Pistols and not contributing any real damage, just like how it was with Hand Blasters before it got buffed like 3 years ago.
    • Like x 2
  13. Mystere Well-Known Player


    Oh I am not sure whether I mentioned this before, but dmg from Orbitals and Backup need to be looked at. Right now I cr 188 (modded and geared) would do alot more dmg compared to a cr 177 (modded and geared) in the hades duo when fighting all the adds leading up to a boss. Once at the boss, assuming both players did the same things they were doing when fighting adds, except that the CR 177 player used orbital strikes on the boss - the CR 177 player would jump up and have higher over dps over the CR 188 player by A LOT! Orbitals and back up should not make that big of a difference.

    Also, that difference makes it hard to test unless you agree with the other player upfront to not use orbitals and backup during the run so you can compare overall performance against all of the other changes you guys have been making.
  14. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    I kind of feel that those things would be balanced during the Supercharge category. Since they have long cooldowns to go with them. Since everyone has a chance to utilize them, they would be outside of the balance.

    As always, the rule for damage is to hit first with the biggest attack possible.
  15. Mystere Well-Known Player


    It just makes testing harder than it need to be right now. If they want to wait to adjust those things, disable them for now.
  16. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

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