Hey DEVS, may have Perfect Solution to get rid of the 4 Dps groups.

They should just increase the damage of the support roles significantly. If bad dps's were being passed by great support roles, people would start thinking that the utility of the support roles is worth it.

Increasing support role's damage output won't fix a thing. Its not going to encourage more support roles, I dont know why so many people think it will. The reason that support roles are often cast aside in favor of more damage isnt because people have some vendetta against anyone who isnt a dps, its because for certain instances, having that extra support doesnt benefit the group as much as having the extra burner would be.

I think Derio is somewhat right about healers and trolls stats. They're so high that it makes it easily soloable to do either one even in end game content. I'd like to add that content is created with all roles in mind, but the signifigance they play is dwindling. But lets ponder on it a bit; If one troll can perform at the same capacity and effectiveness of two, why would a group need two? It'd be so much easier to tie up loose ends by getting some extra damage in there. Same example could be used for healers. I hate to say it, but the way some of the roles function and the way content is designed, its almost like extra healers and trolls are deadweight which is why they're replaced.

As far as healing is concerned, the stats need to ease up. We wont be seeing two healer raids for a while at this rate. I also would like to add that One shot mechanics do nothing to help this; a healer can't heal through a one shot. So what do I propose? Impliment a more AOE/ DOT centric style when concerning adds and bosses, something that forces healers to stay alert and continuosly heal. I believe a one shot should only occur when an objective in the fight fails.

About trolls- This role needs some serious rework. With the implimentation of powerback mechanics and wm, even the most basic of a trolls duties, recharging the group, is losing importance. Now we're at the point were a single troll can power an entire raid AND debuff. Which brings me into another topic: Debuffs. Sure they may do something in the long run, but realistically, the debuff percentages are so miniscule, that dropping the second troll for more damage would be a better option. Top that off with the fact that with Tanks handling crowd control, trolls are on the last straw of responsibilities to have.

Especially since trolls and Tanks are detrimental to eachother in this game. With tanks handling cc, and dps getting Powerback, besides recharging tanks and healers(or debuffing), what else does the troll have? I think that work on this role in particular needs alot of work before we even get to the whole group setup shebang.

Basically, if a group is going above and beyond, they're going to try and find ways to speed up the process: Thats where dps stacking comes in. What we need isnt buffing of support roles damage, but an improvement of functionality in response to content and other roles.

How exactly does that fix anything? there are already support roles outdamaging bad damage roles.
Increasing the damage does nothing but increase how hard supports can hit. Nothing more nothing less. High damage support roles is more likely to cause someone to recognize the efforts of that individual( the support who did good damage), than the role as a whole.

The fundamental issue that needs to be targeted is the signifigance of support roles as content progresses. Since a totally balanced group isn't necessary to complete the majority of the content in the game, of course people will choose to run other ways.

They should just increase the enemy health for each dps added beyond the "balanced" amount. Use the equation Health = Base*(1+#extradps).

Then what do you propose...

HL quantum ice gadgets celestial are fine without a troll.. i never use troll. Like a tank so i can hard light combo other then have all the aggro.. most dps atm are those powers anyway lol. Dont see too many fire or earth dps.

Nerf the healers, nerf the trolls and you wont see these 4 and 5 man dps groups.

Well ppl abusing any mechanic in this game will always exist. SADLY, but that shouldn't stop The collective creative process with us helping this game become better. A bad Idea is still better than No Idea at all....

Forgot sorcery. Even tho electric and nature have am, they can be power hungry too. On usps villain side it's more nature sorcery, and electric dps than atleast gadget and ice

So you make a thread proposing an idea....

... and I bring up a huge oversight with that idea....

... and now I am the bad guy because I didn't propose a new idea for you?



Cmon now. I have no desire to change things in the game in this manner. The burn is almost required in instances now. In fact, that is largely the biggest cause of failure right now for the elite Hades fight - lack of DPS.

That's not to say the DPS attempting it are bad - they are probably all top-notch. The reason is the burn required is beyond the current threshold we can attain right now.

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But hey, i'll play along.

You're trying to suggest ways to get rid of 4-DPS groups.... when the content right now is all but requiring them. Fast burn renders many obstacles in these fights easier or nonexistent - and it's been that way since nexus came out. So right now, pro's for DPS heavy groups....

1. The instance goes faster.
2. Common fight mechanics are made easier or nonexistent (IE Adds)

Cons are:

1. There's less support and safety nets.
2. The supports are required to do the same job with less people.

The catch is? When you have good support roles (or overpowered ones), the cons become nonexistent - because they can handle that. They'll choose to do so too so there's less time inside. The ONLY way you'll get people to look at more support roles is if they are NEEDED or help more than a DPS does. Right now, that is not the case.

That could be remedied a variety of ways including mechanics (Throne does this), increasing the job support roles need to take on (or nerfing support stats). Anything that will make those cons visible and apparent, because right now they are not - unless your support roles are below average.

support roles shouldn't out DPS a DPS but I agree if they were to allow support roles to do more serious damage and still do their roles balanced groups would be more useful as better group survive ability by having more of each role and still able to burn through the content

think about how people would build groups if instead of like say the alert for example I normally have 10mil in nexus alert and the support roles in there with me dont even break 1 mil
now consider if the DPS only put out a little over 5mil but the support roles were all in the 3 mil range.. but same time to complete the instance and a much smoother run with a full group..

there would be no need to stack DPS as your just making a imbalanced group which always causes losses in time with pickups and not gaining that much in burn

There needs to be more mechanics in the game. The Hades banishment is hardly a mechanic as you can still run throne without a second healer simply due to the people who get banished can come back up in under 15 seconds.

So the real problem is the mechanics of the game. Now you have solo troll trend, so you have to ask the devs," you said you put in role mechanics, but so far all I see are tank and dps mechanics".

Nice idea but this isn't going to work. Let's face it, this is a dps driven community. And majority of players have the "get in-get out" mentality and the only way to really accomplish that is with four dps. It would be 5 dps if tanks could solo the new raid content (throne), but for the most part tanks are soloing the other content leaving 5 dps, 1 troll, 1 heal, and 1 tank.

Honestly the only way to fix this would be if dcuo puts a lock on how many different roles can be in an instance or make instances require two of each role. But the backlash from doing this will be extremely harsh because then dcuo will be dictating on how people should play the game. Which is probably why they haven't done it yet.

Best post/idea so far

This exactly. There are no mechanics in the game that require or even encourage running extra support roles. Instead, the only benefits support roles are getting is higher stats, which also hurts them since higher stats enable supports to perform at a higher rate thus making doubles almost redundant

Nope. Mechanics won't fix anything. They never have and they never will. Look at the Ceberus Raid. The Livestream Spytle and the other developer did. Specifically talking about how it was designed with 2 tanks in mind (or at least a part of it was), yet in reality, in the real game, who does it that way? Very few, I imagine.

All mechanics do is put up walls around people, more so on the European servers, who don't speak the same language, whilst doing very little to make the content challenging or fun. Look at Necropolis. Don't let the boss go in the aura and you're fine. Not challenging in the slightest if you know what to do.

The problem is the NPCs. Survival Mode shows us just how hard NPCs can hit at higher levels and dedicated groups don't risk running 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 controller and 5 DPS for the sake of surviving against their strength. That's the only time you can ever convince players to run balanced without forcing them or putting in specific 2-2-2-2 requirements (which they said they'll never do anyway).

Translated into non-Survival Mode content, NPCs should cause a tank to sweat. Which causes the Healers to sweat and the Controllers, too, whilst they ensure the tanks are able to survive as the 2 DPS get rid of the threat. A solo tank shouldn't be able to handle more than 4 Raid trash NPCs. A solo tank shouldn't be able to handle 4 Raid trash NPCs and Raid Boss NPC.

Once they get this down right, they could then look at working other mechanics in. But creating a mind **** of different mechanics is not the way to go. Thrones looks to be absolutely shambolic with the amount of ******** going on during those fights.

Devs would never consider putting NPCs as tough in normal content. Sad I know, but if 5-1-1-1 is now more evident now than ever before.

Problem is Devs are thinking way too hard about mechanics. When all the simple mechanics work just fine. I know its way to late for the next DLC, but perhaps a community thread on mechanics is needed combined with NPC difficulty level.

What i find hilarious is just that. It's an extra 3-4 minutes. Thats not that much.

It's like people don't even want to be in the instances at all.

If this community could have an I win button for the cost of a replay badge, they would be all over it.

From what i have experienced with this community is that it hates doing raids and alerts. Even though you claim to love them. It's like you want nothing to do with it as soon as you get in.

That is why people run with 4 dps. Because they hate being in raids.

The moment a raid looks like it might take an extra 5-10 minutes, people freak out and start leaving.