Time to grant us the PVP feat points

You really think the best course of action to try to continue growing your player base is to shine a giant spotlight on the absolute worst part of your game? Marketing 101 would probably disagree.
30sp would help skip toons which helps everyone. We have all had to deal with another influx of skippers and we all know it makes pug groups pretty impossible for almost any content till they grow their toons. 30sp doesn't mean anything to most of us but would make a pretty large difference when they have 80sp. Don't care either way but people should really be considering fresh players and how to keep them here and make them more capable.

Do you think that they will, at some point , actually make fixing PVP a priority?

I am not so sure. I just don't see that great a demand among players to fix what was really (as I recall) a last minute tack on to the original game (along with weapons) . It is IMO why neither has worked particularly well since day one.

But you do have a better finger on the pulse of the player base, and more game knowledge that I do so I will defer to your opinion.

Yeah, make PvP content. oh and fix state of PvP.

That isn't happening so you'll have to come up with other ideas to counter OPs

I actually was there and after stomaching it for a bit, I couldn't handle the map. I think I stopped short of the final win count. Its terrible. I can't remember, but wasn't this right before revamp? Yeah, it was.

I remember how upset the community was when they introduced it and basically said it was just for promotion and wasn't going to do any PvP updates.

And you know what, you are right, I'd probably try playing a map, I said so in my previous post. But that doesn't vitalize the game, just an event spurt and a terrible punishment one at that. To the point I'd probably go on break again.

PvP is not fun. Adding in new rewards to try and get people playing it will just make me want to do it less and I'll have more unobtainable rewards. I know I'm not alone in this thinking and I know you are not either. It's the devs that know who is in the majority and how it's been left I feel that is more in my side.

Sorry, but there are very common, very easy ways to still get these done, and it really doesn't take that much time if you have a good group working on them. And if you don't like the method I'm referring to(trade wins), you should have the same objection to giving the points away. They could add a 'bonus' week for 1 map a week or whatever if they want to further incentivize it...but the SP are there for the taking...go get them.

So.....

While I get what Reinheld is saying I have to counter that with some quick points...
Should we be telling newbies to the game that sp matters and you need to go take a nap in pvp to get some? "Yeah, just go in and take a beating and like watch youtube on your phone or something for a few hours. Yup, it is the most fun you'll ever have. No way you'll leave the game instantly. Totally most fun you can have outside a proctologists office"
2nd, and I'm guilty of this constantly, think of the other servers. If USPS/PC takes an hour to que then any other server will not que. Period. If what every player is saying is true then no one is ever going to run that. Asking a league mate may be a slim possibility but finding an 8vs8 group is impossible on the busiest server.
I was in open world pvp themyscera this weekend. 1 other player. 1. This is while all the players that know tricks should be flooding into pvp phase. Was in there a few times this weekend and there was a "busy" room, 9 hero's and 1 villain. Not that anyone was fighting. And clearly a very new player shouting for a bounty group. Even asked if they could pve phase in the room. So yeah, clearly no one is teaching people. I've seen players not understand that there is a pve phase and I'm going to assume it happens a lot to fresh players.
Honest opinion: I think the next cr skip intends to add all these. 300+cr with 80 is atrocious. 300 with 120, doable. They've already given almost everything they can in pve feats so why not. It's really only going to annoy a few people and even they will benefit from not having to spend real life money buying sp on a new toon. Win win. Just my thoughts on it which is why I keep saying I don't care what happens and can see it from either side. Figuring the devs just don't want to comment on it to help keep the peace in the meantime

Not by their time frame, they said it would require 1 year of 0 PvE updates to fix or update PvP, this handing out PvP feats easily a 8 hour job. If that.

You must have misunderstood me...I was not advocating 2011 style PVP queue'd showdowns to get the feats...I'm saying use 'trade wins'. Cheap but effective. Sorry, but as long as PVP is 'broke' I would feel no guilt gaming the system to put those feats down. No...blind queuing for AUS 8v8 will take hours and you've got a 50% chance of a loss....Que solos....que duos...que lairs...duel straight up....trade the rest, especially the 8v8s. Even if you are in the most beast PVP group ever and could never lose a match, the queues won't pop fast enough before a group breaks up in straight queue runs.

BTW...how is telling a noob that standing around taking a beating in PvP any different then telling them, "Hey, join a phase of 50 other people and cycle through a 5 boss rotation for 50+ hours...a rotation in which sometimes you won't even SEE the boss before they die". Both are mindless grindage. Much of the game is...

Also, the issue with going to PvP phase (did it last night...do it often when 'hunting' things) is that there is no 'safe' area. You spawn in and are there for 20-30 seconds before you even get a screen. 5 or 6 Dbags were parked on the spawn in point the few times I've gone this DLC and you couldn't even enter the area...if you did, you couldn't barely put up a fight. They need to have separate spawns like they did in Deluge, or whatever 'safe zone' could be added. I don't mind a fight, but it should be a fair fight...not an ambush. Secondly, as the bulk of what people are doing in these zones is tied to the bounty spam, and if heroes and villains are spamming the same bounty, you will be getting splash damage even if it's not intentional. So yeah...you could hunt things, but that's all you can do. In PVE phase, you can hunt in between the bosses.

Personally I wouldn't care if they gave out a FEW of the PvP feats. There are several that are extremely easy. Just stay away from the particularly 'grindy' ones or the top level ones (like they did with the gather feat) and you won't piss most people...even the most hardcore 'anti-givaway' people...off.

I don't care if it's a 30 minute job. If they took time to award everyone all the PvP feats, they can make time to chip away at PvP fixes.

The difference from the pvp to the pve grindage is that the devs want players doing the pve stuff. And that new players can go into those alone. No need to have friends and you would need some really good friends that are willing to just trade losses for hours and not get relevant rewards. I've personally made it very clear to my friends to never ask me to pvp. I'd rather delete the game. I don't think the devs even consider pvp anymore so I'm not expecting a deluge type entrance. Totally agree with you there tho. I went in to the "busy" room with leaguers. Some of which were hardcore pvp types so had bodyguards lol. A new player will just get smoked over and over till they delete the game. But yeah, I don't disagree with most stuff you're saying and yes I agree that people could just spend days doing repetitive boring waste of time type pvp stuff to get some sp but my logic is plain and simple, to me anyway. Of the devs aren't going to do anything with pvp neither should the players. All options are fine by me: do nothing, give them all away, take them all away, whatever. I'd be fine with sp gone and every character just gets a set amount. Let feats give out styles/ tags/ whatever. I'd rather get nth chunks than sp since artifacts are far more important/ useful. But that's a whole other tangent to go off on.

It's not cost effective, 1 wouldnt cost as much, where the other would require constant balance passes to keep it in a semi balance range. I dont know if we play the same game but money doesnt just get blowed all crazy around here, unless it's the player base chasing some dumb meta.

Isn't the reason they gave up because the player base could never agree on what changes they actually wanted? Genuine question.
Also, something else I never understood, why isn't pvp just entirely separate? Like you build a toon that has nothing to do with pve. It just pvps. So even then if 1 power rules them all, everyone could at least use that 1 power and it's technically balanced. Lame, yes, but it's already lame as is so what's the big deal

Give me a 255 skip toon and #AdjustableQueueSize and I could have +30 SP in a day. Worry more about WHY you can't get the same sp done in other locations (same as PvP....because you can't get in) vs trying to justify giving more away as the base. Open up some of the DLC SPs to the skips and give away any of the 'speed' feats or 'tour' feats as well as most of the ones you will get without even trying. Give away some of the base game style feats where they are pretty much 'gimmie' feats if you run for a few weeks.

People want the PVP feats included in the skip because they want the feats...period. It's got nothing to do with the 30 SP that would be inconsequential to a 255 or 290 or whatever skipper. A crappy skipper with 110 SP is still a crappy skipper and a skilled skipper with 80 sp is still a skilled skipper. Call a spade a spade....people want the feats given to them. Don't hide it behind the 'the 255s are too weak' argument.

BTW. If they increased the skip by 5 SP, but it's the 5 SP that you (not you, xxHellstrokexx...'you' in the general term) needed, I'm guessing 5 would be enough that people would jump to the 'don't give SP away' side the next go-round.

When I did my trades a few years ago, I went in with almost no one I knew....however, I MADE a lot of friends in the process. You are spending hours (yeah....hours) in a chat with a bunch of people working on one goal...or a few side goals like bounties, styles, etc... and those are the groups I've actually had the most fun with. Doesn't matter that the goal was easy wins...it was the same goal for 16 people in the game, which makes it less of a mindless grind than a lot of the other stuff we do.

And the rewards are the SP (although I needed marks for the styles too...also feats). Now...could you argue that the few SP in PvP are not worth the hours...sure...and I'd agree, but I'd also argue that NOT having them doesn't make a difference either.

And yeah....if ever asked by any new or newish user about PvP or the phase shifter...I tell them to stay away...only darkness lies behind that portal. First off, it's true....second off...I'm greedy, more collections for me!

Agree to everything there. I'm mostly here as devil's advocate anyway.

Pvp is why i dont have max sp! Never been a fan! I don’t care one way or the other what they do with them(sp for pvp).

You know, it's not the first time I've heard such a statement ... but what's the point ... no, of course I understand that the choice of the simplest available achievements is based on not annoying people who have invested time and money in the game, and at least shoot themselves but not will be able to put up with the fact that someone will receive something without investing as much as they (although this is of course sheer hypocrisy because they got their achievements when it was 100 times easier to farm them (I remember the time when these achievements were not "cut" and when I farm them all , and it was simple, ridiculously simple in comparison with the time when I started from scratch on another ACC and was already farming "cut-downs").
But if you really want to interest a NEW player, you will give him achievements that you cannot work on on his own without colossal frustration, and leave those where he can slowly but surely work on his own as he moves through the game and makes friends ... give a couple of simply available achievements ... sorry looks like a mockery ...

No one's forcing anyone to PVP, but if you're not going to do it, then why on earth are you entitled to rewards, the same attitude is in no way projected through to PVE despite its many broken elements as well, unless we're pretending PVE is a bastion of balance

I'm just never going to be on board with handing out PVP rewards for people that refuse to do PVP for whatever reason that might be.

Not sure what your point is. I specifically pointed to the feats that are the 'easy' feats that anyone could get with just some normal running (i.e. BS styles...Gates/Paradox feats...bottle duo speed or 'do each map' feats...all stupid easy now, but maybe you don't end up going in there). You could squeeze 30 more SP out of the first 5 DLCs or base game without giving away the top level PvP feats. That would get the SP up a bit, but still leave some 'top' level feats for IF...and that's a big if...they become the type of player who is looking to max out their SP. If not, they can play and function fine...they still have a LOT of feats to work on either solo or in groups and the dangling carrot is out there for putting in the time/grind if they want those 50 'map' wins, the 100 wins in safehouses, or 1000 lair wins. If they don't turn into that kind of player, fine... then they don't need those SP anyway.

Oh, but I'm guessing if they did that those 30 would not be enough. I'd guess the requests would keep coming in until that 'one' feat someone is looking for ends up in the package.

Any new player who actually cares about getting their SP up will find a way to do so, maybe even some PvP ones. I'd guess most new players don't even know the difference until some person putting a group together tell them they need to 'get gud' after inspecting them, or is chastised for not having level 200 artis in content where it's not needed to escort a bunch of 300+ CR goons through a 4 or 5 DLC old run.