Legends Characters Tier List

It's not much but I think Sinestro should have the same Health as Supergirl. I know it is minimal but every little bit helps .

And HB's are good but they aren't "that" good not enough in my eyes to say Faust is too strong. Don't get me wrong. He's good and probably about as borderline as Amon-Sur to being T2 but not quite T2 in our eyes.

You might be right about Hal but he is pretty darn close to balanced outside of that BB being all sorts of screwed up.

Would be curious to hear some things you would move around though just for the fun of the discussion.

Oh, you're definitely going to be getting a full response from me when I'm done with work but the thing with Sinestro, unlike SG is that he can get his best burst off at any point. Supergirl can't because her 35% is involved.

I think one of the big pros for HBs is that Pulse Discharge was included in the weapon buff despite being a tap, and now it is stronger than it was before as it got buffed by 60% on single targets and 59% on multiple targets which puts it above the 50% buff to health and power damage.

Both very good points.

Yay for discussions!!

However, I still don't think that knocks Faust into T2 realm...damn close but not quite.

I'm of the opinion that handblasters are the only reason Faust is as good as he is. If they get rid of the AoE bb or at least balance it out then lower PD's damage a tad bit it'd be fine.

After several scrims with Supergirl as of late, I must ask, why is she upper mid tier instead of Mid Tier? She may have the best burst damage out of all Kryptonians, but she has the worst survivability and consumes a lot of power, which makes 2v1 situations a nightmare.

EDIT: Now before anyone mentions her Burst Damage, keep in mind that Wonder Woman has good burst too, but she also has higher health and bracers.

but what of catwoman!

What ABOUT Catwoman? She doesn't need to be brought down a tier. She needs to be nerfed like the other Top Tier legends.

Supergirl is who I'm talking about. Not Catwoman.

That's the argument all the way back on the first page here. This guide started with Supergirl in the big middle tier, with me thinking the same way you are now. The comment that won putting her into upper mid was this one:

To me, the middle tier characters are ones where burst damage, survivability, and power efficiency are all good but not great. All the upper mid section characters have one or two of those areas where they are stronger than average. If all three are strong, that's top tier quality. That Supergirl has this great finishing burst is one strength area.

Wonder Woman is at the top of the upper mid section. At one point she was up right next to Bane and Lex in the top one. She has good damage and survival but not efficiency, so 2 out of the 3 major areas. Circe also has high power consumption and her survival is trouble in a 2v1, especially if you let her run out of power due to her very low base health. Supergirl is midway between Circe and WW in health.

The comment I quoted above made me think Supergirl was seen as like Faust or Circe in overall strength. The idea that just one excellent area is good enough to land in upper mid is also how Cheetah ended up there now.

This is a perfectly fine way to do 5 categories. I'd put Green Arrow in T3 and Ursa next to Zod in T5, but that's a minor detail not worth getting into here.

Data management is actually my real job in the world and I thought about this a lot, just didn't share that because no one really asked. The current structure is compressing down what I personally think of as more like 10 mini tiers (now, it was only 9 at the start) sorted by scores in 3 major areas: survivability, damage/counter punishment, power efficiency:

Shazam, Two-Face [all 3 strong and major survival bonus too]
Catwoman, Lex, Bane, Bizarro [3 strong areas]
Wonder Woman, Circe [2 strong areas]
Faust, Atrocitus, Dr. Fate, Supergirl, Cheetah [1 strong area or 2 above average ones]
Kyle, Amon-Sur, Batman, Nightwing, Robin
Deathstroke, Huntress, Joker, Hal, Wonder Girl, Sinestro [1 weak area]
Kilowog, Arkillo, Green Arrow, Arkham Joker [1 very weak area or 2 slightly weak areas]
Harley, Guy Gardner, Superman, Powergirl [2 or more weak areas]
Zod, Ursa [weak in one area but 1 that isn't garbage]
Steel, Saint Walker [garbage]

I personally thought the jump from Batman/Robin/Nightwing to Fate/Faust was significant, so I made that the point to split between mid and upper mid. That also lined up well with the terminology people were already using. I considered compressing down to less categories as you did. You lose some useful information by doing that. Most importantly, I didn't want to start over inventing my own tier labels and suggesting everyone adopt them.

I'm not sure there are enough actual readers of this guide to justify spending a lot of time on reworking it. There will still be 10 tiers in my head regardless. You split your tiers closer to what I'm calling the 2 strong / 2 weak area line. Where the lines are drawn in the guide and what labels they get is very arbitrary. I could easily split into as few as 3 tiers or as high as these 10. I don't actually care that much either. Selling the terminology change to the people who post here is the hard part.

All good man and understood. Like I said before just a matter of opinions is all it comes down to anyway. But you make some good points .

It's a shame that empirical data disagree with you.

Testing and observations are a lot more reliable than your... point of view. Funny how that works out. Where's your evidence?

You are right on the edge of understanding the real problem here.

Personal experience does not equate to evidence or solid data.

Your batman has trouble against Catwoman you say? Makes sense.

so if I was to beat your batman with shazam because I have a higher survivability rating it would be a fluke ? what if you get beat by someone lower on the list while playing Batman does it bump them up the list ? and as for your other statement about it getting tested only on pc Batman isn't the be all end all on Ps he is a mid card character

We're only basing the rankings off of data, not how well a player can actually perform with them because that leads human error into things.

Otherwise Superman would be Top Tier. Ain't that right Shaw?

*Runs and hides.

And I rate this comment a zero considering balance is done around the potential of a character and not purely based on someone's individual skill with them, 99% of people don't seem to understand this.

Isn't Batman still doing crazy inescapable crowd control?