I love how OP is trying really hard to be constructive (at least in comparison to other threads) and you're just being an a$$h0le
Problem with that, in this game, is that it essentially gives the LA of other factions the middle finger and further pushes vanu LA into pure beacon/C4 monkey role. Saying heavies and LA could combat it on the ground floor is one thing in semi urban environments. But when you give it the ability to crash in LA's turf, you avoid HA's and fight a class with carbines and SMG's instead. Then you have a slaughter.
It's a valid statement, though. People don't SHOOT ZOE's for two reasons. The first is the typical futility of shooting a MAX. That's not really true of ZOEs, but it is still a MAX unit. The second is the perception of ZOE. Everyone sees them as OP, nobody wants to engage them. Against a group of troops, a ZOE will drop very, very quickly. Like it hit a wall. Running is not the best option.
TR and VS ones? Sure. But if we were going to go after the C4 on light assault, I'd rather do it equally in a way that doesn't give one faction a huge advantage. I hate the C4 spam as much as the next guy and it's my most played class, but this isn't the way to fix it.
I main NC and was snotted by a KA5 ZOE MAX while wielding extended magged Mattocks at < 10m. I like my ZOE MAX on my alt, I consider it reasonably balanced. For me, the NC weapons need to be buffed - I'd settle for our magazine capacity back and the TR MAXs (which I also enjoy) lockdown could use a reduction in deploy/undeploy. Lockdown is useful but once someone zooms in on you with high explosives, you should be able to escape. The time it takes to move from lockdown = death.
Jesus, English lllllllllllllllllll ! Do you speak it? After winding my way through this sophist run on sentence I can't help but think the High School education is truly dead. To address you points, such as they are. 1. NO VS Max Unit can one shot you unless you are under 450 health, and that is only a Comet Max. 2. The Striker and lock-ons will never be fixed, they would have fixed it by now and they just cut staff. 3. ZOE is fine, adjust.
There is a reason this keeps coming up on the forums and isn't going to go away, and that’s because compared to the other faction MAX abilities, the Zealot Overdrive Engine or ZOE is clearly unbalanced compared to the other two. Any look at the basic numbers between them pretty much makes it clear, but let’s review them. TR Lockdown Drawbacks -100% Movement Debuff Locked into a 180 degree firing arc 3 second activation and deactivation time. Cool down period between lockdowns (You have to wait a few seconds before locking down again after you just disabled it. This is after the 3 second animation disabling lockdown.) Subjective: Of all the MAX abilities this one makes you the most susceptible to Anti-MAX weaponry. Advantages Increased Fire Rate, Reload Time, and Projectile Speed of 35-50% depending on weapon. NC Aegis Shield Drawbacks -100% Firing Rate Debuff Only absorbs damage that hit the shield, doesn’t protect back or the “eyeslit” in the front. Has an ability meter, can only be up for limited amounts of time, incoming fire reduces the meter Won’t protect you splash damage since it will get behind the shield. Advantages Absorbs damage that hits the shield Can be activated after starting a reload without interrupting it. Short activation time VS Zealot Overdrive Drawbacks -30% damage resistence Advantages Increased Damage (15%-25% Per Weapon)* - To put this into perspective, an anchored TR Lockdown Burster Max and a VS ZOE Burster Max have the same TTK for aircraft. Increased Movement Speed (Equal to Infantry Sprinting, faster walking and strafing)** Has no ability meter, can be used 100% of the time Instantly activates or disables Can be activated/disabled immediately after being disabled/activated (No wait time between changing states.) Subjective: The drawback to this ability is the only MAX ability that can be countered with other MAX certs, specifically Kinetic Armor Subjective: The increased movement speed is most advantageous against avoid anti-max weaponry, namely C4 and to a lesser extent decimators. Conclusion And this is why people are saying ZOE is broken. The numbers don’t stack up against the other MAX abilities. It’s the only ability that doesn’t give up something for it’s advantage, it’s drawbacks can be largely negated by certs, and it’s abilities are the best at avoid Anti-MAX weaponry. You’ll either need to see serious buff to Aegis Shield and Lockdown or a large nerf to ZOE. Now, assuming you want to see Lockdown MAXes that are nigh impervious to C4 and Aegis Shield maxes projecting bubbles around them and winning every Bio Lab, it’s a bit easier to see a ZOE nerfing. So, here’s a few ideas. (No these should not be considered to be cumulative suggestions, they are alternatives.) Ideas 1 and 2 should probably come with some sort of cooldown attached to the ZOE ability. 1) Since all the other maxes primary drawbacks are a -100% debuff, you could balance ZOE by removing all damage resistance when ZOE is activated. This means they’d be taking damage the same as infantry. 2) Remove the speed increase, possibly add a speed debuff 3) In the creative column: Leave ZOE as it is, but if a ZOE is destroyed it causes the ZOE to overload, dealing massive damage to all friendlies and destroying the MAX unit, making it unrezable. Before you say this makes no sense, the Lasher already does -75% splash damage to friendlies. If that makes sense, then ZOE overloads causing damage only to friends makes just as much sense. (Maybe it makes the brain slugs inside all the VS cultists explode, who knows.) Footnotes *Here’s the damage increase numbers on the various weapons, don’t Cosmos, Nebula, Quasar, Blueshift: +25% damage. Comet: +25% damage Burster: +20% damage (Indirect 15%) Vortex: +15% damage **Here’s a table on movement speeds. ZOE is the same sprinting infantry, but faster walking, backward walking, and strafing than infantry. Infantry running speed: 6.5 m/s Infantry walking speed: 4 m/s Infantry backward walking speed: 3 m/s Infantry strafing speed: 3 m/s MAX running speed: 6 m/s MAX walking speed: 3 m/s MAX backward walking speed: 2 m/s MAX strafing speed: 2 m/s ZOE MAX running speed: 6.5 m/s ZOE MAX walking speed: 5.5 m/s ZOE MAX backward walking speed: 4.5 m/s ZOE MAX strafing speed: 4.5 m/s Thank you for reading.
I like #3, but it's hard to explain the friendly only explosion. I think the energy backlash should purge any battery based weapon's magazine in a scaling area (the higher ZOE the larger the area), so they'd need to reload all of their weapons. Tricky to explain away NS weapons tho. Haha
Iirc I thought someone once worked out damage wise that vs infantry and the AI weapons it was something like 1 or 2 bullet difference to kill with a ZOE which if the case would seem silly for all the drama <.< Av wise and maybe burster it becomes more useful due to higher damage but bursters sorta suck as a whole so hard for judging that IMO Movement is a big thing but even without Zoe I think people discount how much normal gunfire can hurt. This ain't PS1 where infantry without armor damaging ammo doesn't matter. One or two HA with their base gun can score some pretty reasonable damage as can many other classes given the amazing accuracy of many of the weapons. Yes you can turn it off but then you're slower and soaking more fire..or keep it on and get out of fire but take more damage while there.
The key issue is that you don't survive long enough to exploit that weakness, If you stand and shoot a ZOE MAX The MAX will kill you long before you kill him. That's the same with any other MAX but the timings are slightly different. With other MAX suits your best way to deal with them is to stay out of their kill zone, Minimize damage taken and whittle them down, but the ZOE MAX's speed and to a degree alpha damage mean It's generally impossible to do that as you can't get out of fire quick enough or stay out of fire long enough to get your shield back so you can pop off a few more shot's before you take cover again. Edit: TLDR: ZOE MAX is only weak when it can play all of it's strengths.
I need some damage stats but I didn't think on a per bullet basis the ZOE made enough change in the AI weapons to actually kill appreciably quicker. I've rocked the AI max as VS and no ZOE (I way way prefer defensive options...) and chewed through people amazingly fast, I'm honestly not sure how the ZOE would make that appreciably faster given the overall low damage of each bullet from the AI weaponry..maybe its different if you like, rock Blueshifts or something, need stats? And whittle down? Most times in a max I die not from being gradually nickled and dimed but in a massive blast of damage (close in shotguns, c4, launchers, etc). Nickle and diming a max is a losing game regardless of ZOE. It wasn't a winning game in PS1, and its not a winning game in PS2, but maxes ARE much more susceptible to normal fire in PS2 then before despite what alot of people say.
But the damage weakness doesn't really affect massive damage attacks that much. If a regular MAX was going to be killed by those tactics of course the ZOE will too. It's every vanu saying hur dur just shoot the MAX which is were the MAX has the greatest advantage. The ZOE Makes the MAX slightly weaker when he would normally have the upper-hand any way but also increases his advantages at the same time and reduces the options of his enemy's. His speed means he can pick his fights at will which normal infantry normally have over him and the minor damage increase means he can help reduce the amount of retaliation fire from his enemies by killing them quicker. 30% extra damage delft is all well in good when you don't die before getting a shot off. The extra speed and to a small amount the damage means the still more health and damage then any conventional soldier MAX gets to nearly always fight on his terms. With other MAX suits it's a bit more of a toss-up of whether the situation suits them or not. You can easily catch a NC MAX at a Disadvantage and a TR MAX can still be caught out if you kite them with cover and a standard Vanu MAX can be caught with his pants down much like the others but the ZOE allows the VS MAX to either minimise time spent vulnerable, escape the situation or turn the situation around.
This is still a problem for some TR/NC? NEWS FLASH to those crying that they can't 1v1 a ZOE Max as an infantry. YES YOU CAN. It's simple. Concussion grenade > Deci > Finish. Or just C-4. Depending on skill level of both? You may be able to skip the grenade. Please stop with this nonsense. If you believe that ZOE is still a problem, then it is YOUR problem. It is entirely possible to 1v1 a ZOE as an infantry. Not to mention the disparity of resource cost it takes to kill a ZOE compared to the cost of pulling a ZOE. This debate needs to retire.
NC has vanguard shields. TR has Striker/Marauder/Vulcan/Mossy. For ***** sake let factions have some OP things to make the game a battle between factions, and not a battle between red guys vs. blue guys vs. purple guys
I do want to say catching an NC max at a disadvantage is sorta like saying you walked outside and decided not to try to hug the vicious dog that is barking at you across the street. But that's a whole other matter. ZOE when we are discussing AI is more about the mobility then the damage due to overall boost is very minuscule and the TTK doesn't change much from fighting a non-Zoe or from my observing another HA at least in feel, the max just survives better which I feel Zoe is trading durability for mobility, which while there is a damage boost associated I don't believe THAT is what is wrecking infantry so much as the Zoe being able to escape and get into and out of fights more effectively. Once again though this is perception from seeing Zoe and using different max setups, I lack numbers to back up things like dps and TTK
You also can't Assume the person fighting the MAX is a HA, Every Class except maybe Infiltrator stands his fair chance against a MAX. Sure a HA has a rocket launcher and a Shield to deal with the MAX but everyone else has to use manoeuvrability and wits to try and deal with a MAX. For Example: LA: Use jetpack to out manoeuvre MAX, use Disabling grenades to allow maximum damage time. Or just C4. Medic: Duck and weave from a Distance healing yourself between short engagements. Or C4... Engy: Use sticky-grenades to wipe off half of his health then lure him in to a point blank AV Turret Surprise. Or Tank Mine Laced AP Mine.....or C4 Infiltrator:??? Kite him like a mother F'er using stealth I suppose but yeah good luck with that. None of the above can really be done with the MAX moving at ZOE Speed and any Kind of Damage buff is just insult to injury.
Well, it is wrong to say that ZOe has no real drawbacks. The 30% less armor reduces the survivability. Always letting the zoe active is not a good idea so it is kinda situational too, in fact it is better to use it when the max health is enough high. However, there is an aspect of zoe which I do not understand. This ability to move and to run fast is a bit too much from my point of view. I use regularly a max, but with the first level of ZOe, I do not see the usefulness of Charge anymore. In the contrary TR & NC max have to choose between temporary speed or staying slow with their special abilities. Personaly I would find fair to loose this speed, but in exchange it would be nice to have this ugly & pink overlay removed and the active ZOe will be only displayed as a HUD on the player's interface screen. I agree with the people saying that a max unit has to stay slow, this is normaly the drawback of playing one.
