Why is Planetside 2 losing so many players?

Or maybe people play the game for themselves and realize its a mindless merry go round dolled up to look like something it isnt.

Because no one likes being stuck in a 'spawn out-house' that is surrounded by aircraft/vehicles, and having absolutely 0 chance or hope of ever defending the massive facility, or small outpost your currently at.

Ignoring the hackers (they were ALWAYS be hackers, no-mater how much $ SOE pours into their anti-hacking/moderator teams, there will ALWAYS be hackers around), ignoring the few bugs that are around, ignoring the fact that SOE turned PS1's team-based game-play into BF3 style lone-wolf, one-man-army game-play... the biggest gripe almost all players seem to have with PS2 is the design of the 'spawn out-house'.

Yes, the bases are huge compared to PS1's bases. There's lots of room to move around, multiple buildings to have fire-fights out of, or within, but there is one glaring problem with every single base designed for PS2 except for possible the bio-labs. And the problem is a result of SOE trying to solve one of the issues with PS1's base-designs... they just made it worse rather than better.

In PS1, you had to use Vehicles + infantry to fight your way 'towards' a base. Then, you had to use infantry and maxes to fight 'into' that base in order to claim it. The problem with PS1's bases is that they were always 'hallway fights'. The internals of the bases were composed of long or curved 'tubes' of hallways, a few staircases, and 1 or 3 medium-large rooms. This caused a-lot of fights to boil down to downright attrition fighting as the 50 on 50 fights boiled down to 2 vs 2 hallway battles with the other 48 people on either side waiting behind the first 2 in the line.

In PS2, the dev's tried to solve this by spreading out the bases. And they did this rather well. BUT, the one glaring problem with their attempt at solving the corridor fights. Comes in the form of a 'spawn-outhouse'.

In PS1 you spawned 'within' your base you were currently trying to defend. Unless the spawn-tubes were destroyed, you could re-spawn within the belly of the base, free from any vehicle fire, and using the hallways, make your way towards a contact point and rejoin the defense at either a generator, a doorway leading into the base, or the control point itself for the base. Taking a base REQUIRED infantry combat.

In PS2. The spawn-outhouses completely change how bases are captured, and in my honest opinion 100% negate any development/design effort that went into building the actual base itself.

Anyone who has played PS1 knows what a 'tower of death' is. Its when a group of people are stuck inside a tower that is surrounded by tanks/aircraft who are spamming shells/missiles at the doorways while infantry try to fight threw the hoards of people within the tower to get to the CC. All the while, those inside the tower cannot get out due to the massive amount of explosive rounds hitting the 4-8 doorways on the tower itself.

Spawn-outhouses in PS2 are essentially the same thing. Only, rather than being 'outposts' outside of the base, they are the 1 and only spawn area WITHIN the base. In PS2, you dont spawn in a underground room with hallways connecting you to the strategic locations you need to defend in order to keep the base. You spawn in a out-house building with 2-4 exits, that is 100% cut off from every objective within the base you are trying to defend. And those 2-4 exits are 100% open to 'camping' by aircraft and ground vehicles.

What this causes to happen is that rather than 'needing' infantry to take a base in PS2, all you need is enough aircraft/ground vehicles to circle the spawn-outhouse, then send 1 single infantry around to flip the capture points to your team. Then just sit back and wait.

For defenders, when you get to the point were your stuck inside that spawn-outhouse, there really is no way to get back 'out' of it. (just like the towers in PS1). Your only option is to LEAVE the vary place your trying to defend. Go to some other base/location nearby. Mass up a group of vehicles/aircraft (again, no infantry needed/required). Then come BACK to the place you were just forced to leave due to the design of the base, and try to push away the gathering of aircraft/vehicles surrounding said out-house.

There is hardly any true 'infantry' combat in PS2. Only bio-labs retain some of PS1's infantry combat and thats because of the giant dome over the facility which keeps out 'most' vehicles/aircraft. (i say most as there are some crafty pilots who can get their aircraft inside the upper landing-pads, and Magriders/Flashes equipped with Afterburners can literally 'fly' onto those same pads at certain bases).

All in All, PS2 looks great, and for the most part its fun to play.

But, the fact that 90% of the game is ruled by whoever manages to circle a single little out-house within massive facilities first, Just leaves me more frustrated at times than having fun. And tends to cast a shadow over the other 'good' things about the game.

Ive loved the rare and far-flung battles ive been part of in PS2 were there were masses of Infantry AND vehicles.. fighting over territory. But for the most part, PS2 is nothing more than a 'tower of death' over and over and over and over again, at ALL locations, except for Biolabs. Though even Biolabs border on this 'spawn-outhouse' mechanic as your still in a easily campable building, but at-least you stand a 'chance' of pushing out against other infantry, were you stand absolutely 0 pushing out against liberators, reavers and HE fitted Tanks. You'll try to defend a base, only to die at one point and find yourself re-spawning in a building 100% encircled by vehicles, and then be forced to watch as everything your suppose to defend is systematically take down while your unable to even TRY to defend those locations once you've died once.

There is no 'fun' in that.

I logged in just to agree with you.

And it's why I mainly only play Biodomes.

Airspam. Lots of airspam.

Sometimes, you can try spawning at different bases... just to get shelled to death the same.

For all of the love some have for the Crown and Bio Labs, I wanted to say that I'm not very impressed. I suppose the Crown is a decent enough design, but the fact that so much of the game centers around it has burned me out on it.

And bio labs, while at first were really cool looking, and I couldn't wait to battle over them, are nothing more than campouts at two locations: Flight deck, and spawn room. Those were briefly fun while trying to cert up a few things. After I burned out on farming, bio labs, and the crown, ceased to be fun.

When I play fps's, it's all about capturing objectives and ultimately winning the game. Since this game cannot be won, that means that the objectives must be double or triple the fun, and they have to have value and meaning to make them fun. There has to be progression, and increasing rewards, and permanent or at least temporarily locked in progress (e.g., base lockouts).

With probably rare exceptions, this seems to be how the gaming business world works. Same as the music, tv and movie industry. It's almost exclusively about releasing a continual stream of half baked products, and occasionally producing a mind blower.

We all like art and entertainment, but these things have never meshed well with business. They are like oil and water. The only way to make it work is to constantly stir the mixture, but it's chaotic and messy and produces erratic results. The results are further skewed when corporations deliberately produce low grade products for ulterior motives, such as tax write offs, contract fulfillment, or...........smoothing out the charts and graphs in preparation for the "real product" that actually has the company's full attention.

So, could PS2 actually be a half-bake-ware cash grab in preparation for the "real product"? Sure it could. We'll find out.

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Ftr, if the January patch does not include server merges and some obvious, blue-sky meta-game changes, then I don't care what they say their 5 year plan is....this game will be cooked.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/where

Not a chance. If this game had been a rockin' fun blast, with real meaning and solid objectives, and where a player felt like he was making real progress, and with an actual.........scoreboard..............this game would be blasting to the moon right now.

If this game were tons of fun with all of those things above, negative forum posts wouldn't mean squat, and quite obviously, there wouldn't be the same number or type of them as we've had.

Players leave games because they have no 'sticking power'. It's simple. A player comes in, if he has tons of fun, he stays. If he has no fun, he leaves. If he has modest fun, then he plays a little until he finds something better. (not discounting technical issues)

People play fun games. They're always on the hunt for something that is more fun and has more to offer. This game is a farm n' cert fest, and a bad one at that, and it's the only game with 500 forum threads asking, "Where are the battles?"

SOE thought they could make giant maps and bases, throw in some vehicles, and cash the checks. Bad idea.

You seem to be under the delusional impression that SOE didnt already bank off this game.

HAHAHAHAHA touche

Yes, I spose I have my work cut out for me

I just started today and only have about 2 hours game time before I had to get ready for work but I loved the game. I spent most of my time as a Infantry lvl 0 , had a blast. It really sucks this game looks like it's taking a rough start but many "mmo" ish games do. I my self want the final 2 hours of work to end so i can get back on Planetside 2 !!!

Like has been mentioned above by a few of the more wiser and fairer members, the forums can have an influencing effect over some people - they read the forums, read about an imbalance, or unhappiness in one or two people, and then, as is human nature, they try to relate to it.
When 'x' or 'y' kills them, they will remember that thread whining about it, and use that as a catalyst to enrage themselves. Negativity breeds negativity.

A few of the more respectable 'veterans' (a dramatically misused word) are taking a hiatus, as are newer members - this isn't due to failure in SOE but in fact either unrealistic expectations, or that they have burnt out after the double XP over Christmas (burnt out = where you simply play too much and realise it dominates your life and you briefly need some time away from it before resuming reasonable gaming style/times.

Meanwhile, the foci of much discontent, SOE, have returned from a much needed holiday - to those operating in realistic stressful occupations, you learn to appreciate the necessity for holidays/vacations to get your mind put straight, or to relax/unwind. SOE devs were definitely entitled to this and parts of the community demand too much, too soon, like impatient children. They are too easy to blame.

This. You people whine all day long.

Personally, I'm loving the gameplay, I like the fact that vehicles are strong in this game. Air and tanks offer new experiences, while pure infantry FPS game are oversaturated already, too many of those. Nerfing vehicles would just make this game weaker, less appealing.

However, I do see some problems that can cause new players to quit: items are too damn expensive. Not everyone can play for 12 hours a day to grind enough certs for a new gun. Not everyone can afford to buy lots of items. And the game is just not that fun unless you have a bunch of items.

I know SOE wants more money, but they gotta realize that less is more.

Ability to switch servers would also have significant impact on player staying power, but it got to be free

+ on this

So many people have never played PS1,its sad.
I have more fun in PS1.
PS2 is just a BIG map BF.

He writes a solid message and you reply with that?!? Go stuff yourself.

HACKERS and SOE are to inept to deal with them.. Take right now for example 9:25 EST Matterson server, there is one on NC right now (I would name him but I PROBABLY GET BANNED FROM THE FORUMS)... He is in a LIB 1 shotting everything that moves.. /Report does nothing. We have zero chance to get him out of his fortress in the sky. The dude is flying sideways in circles nailing every VS to a wall...What is the result well we are running for our lives unable to capture anything and losing ground. So go to another cont you say? Well I would except for the fact that hardly anyone is playing anymore so what the blank would I fight.... Oh btw this hacker is in his low 30's.....Great job on weeding these guys out...

/LOG

GREAT JOB SOE YOU FAILED AGIAN. What else is new...

THIS is exactly it. And the thing about Tower of Death was that you made them pay for every inch in taking that tower unlike the spawn rooms which is just a one-way prison slaughter. Not to mention that a lone vehicle trying to take out a base in PS1 would have the turrets autofire at it when it got within close enough range. That was always great since it allowed any lone defenders there to try to take it out and call for defenders if it was an army coming.

After thinking about it some more, I'd have to say the unprecedented amount of crashes reduces the game's impression greatly. It is universally frustrating; regardless of faction, playstyle, PC setup, region, etc.

I can imagine someone starting out and getting 1-2 crashes in their first night and not being too impressed. A lot of the people I used to play with turned away because of it.

zephyr.