Why doesn't the Terran Republic ally with the Vanu Sovereignty? [IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE LORE LEAVE]

I hear this argument a LOT on here.

Probably the only weird one here. It refers to the faction's ideology itself. Vanu is no longer just an alien or a faction, it is a way of thinking. A mindset, if you will. Our goal is to achieve enlightenment, the abolishing of all human vices, via artificial evolution. Our soldiers say it when you press V1 for a thank you message. It's telling whoever did something worthy of thanks that their actions showcase the parts of humanity we want to preserve.

Humanity is rife with flaws, this very war proves that. We simply can't stop killing each other. Our entire history is shaped by greed and anger. Only by achieving enlightenment like I previously said can we stop this cycle. That's salvation.

I mean replace "Vanu" with "name your faction here"

This one is just referring to our faction.

I mean replace "Vanu" with "name your faction here"

This one is referring to our faction as well.

Pretty standard taunt. It wouldn't be out of place if any NC or TR soldier said it.

Except ideologies... don't smile.

I mean the NC equivalent would be like "freedom smiles upon you", which is weird as heck. Saying "Lady Liberty smiles upon you" might be a bit more acceptable, but still be very un-NC. It works for the VS, because they're supposed to be the religious whackos.

That's precariously close to the Hindu concept of reincarnation and eventual nirvana

Except the VS have a faction name too... and they don't use that. The explicitly fight for Vanu, in lieu of the VS.

If you really want to experiment, just go up to people who don't play PS2 and tell them, "Vanu smiles upon you" or "For Vanu", and then ask them what they think you were talking about. Chances are if that beyond thinking it's a Star Wars reference, they might think you were talking about a religion. Because that's how religious people talk.

Really, your ideology can't do that? Sounds like it needs an upgrade.

In all seriousness, the idea is that Vanu/the Vanu followed the same ideology, which is why they would smile upon you for displaying positive traits. Sorry for not making that clearer in my previous post.

That's exactly what I (and I'm pretty sure SOE) was referencing. Planetside with its rebirthing technology is just satire on that concept. It has a surprising amount of depth there, actually. If only the devs would emphasize that.

It wouldn't be weird if the TR said: "I fight for Terra!" or the NC said: "I fight for The Conglomerate!". Alternatively, they could be referring to fighting for that ideal I mentioned earlier.

That they would, because the VS pretty much is a religion based around the idea of enlightenment, breaking the cycle of war and cruelty that has haunted mankind throughout its history. The difference is that this religion is based on actual evidence.

Ummm... the Christians I talk to also have plenty of "evidence" of their religion. The Bible, floods, you name it. And to them of course it seems quite real to them as well.

♫ Blame Waterson! ♫
(To this tune )

Sporadic telepathic feedback. The wormhole. The artifacts. Vanu cities. Thousands of years of war and bloodshed. That's our evidence. Hard stuff.

No, wormhole or not we would still beat the crap out've ourselves. But seeing evidence another species did change our view of ourselves. I was more or less trying to say that the technology simply existing didn't change Mankind by itself, it was the knowledge propagated from that tech that would lead mankind to realize that we're not the only preditor. We'd still beat ourselves up; it's natural. Population control and promotes our evolution. The tech existing did mean something? But we owe nothing to it. It's what it symbolized that meant something.

And in truth there is actually nothing "wrong" about this because morality itself can be questioned at our level of thought. Just be aware that the "For Humanity!" charge is a biological urge. I mean, I'm personally IRL not against cybernetic evoltuion, especially considering that as we reach for the stars? That may be the only way to be successful anyway considering our severe physical limitations. However, we're still animals and convincing the average joe to become something other than "Human" is going to seem foreign. The Vanu idea of "evolving" DOES make sense. I'm not discounting that. It is a purely logical thing to do as we realize our bodies are just vessel. It's really only our thoughts and minds that we should try to keep perpetual.

This was me more or less building onto the lore. sorry. I should of "asterisked" some of that to segregate my thought from Cannon. It's a thoery a few hold because Brigg's death was never solved. It was a suicide, but why?
Hell it's not even proven if he was even speaking to a true Vanu. And if he was, the guy seemed to go pretty nutty before tripping balls and killing himself for uknown reasons.
Perhaps he succumbed to schizophrenia because unlike the legacy after him, he didn't have the proper Vanu design cybernetics installed on him or something. The Vanu can give reasons as to why he really died and why it was really a or several Vanu he was "talking" too but for the purpose of giving the Lore a massive "grey" area; details are left out. So from my view? I have nothing to go on but the results. Guy said he heard voices of ETs and then kills himself....
Hmmm....
I might want to proceed with caution.

Every war simply proves we're animals evolving among ourselves; which is what Humanity actually labels. Sure it's used commonly as "Being Humane" or pro-humanity being "pro-life" but again as we pass a certain scale of civilization? That becomes the norrow localized thought. Being "Human" and "Preserving Humanity" is literally the same as "Yes, I am Dog" and "Must have sex with other females to ensure more dogs exist! EVEN IF IT MEANS BEATING THE F**K out've OTHER dogs to get to her".
And in the thread I posted earlier; this is what I meant by the Vanu actually having some good side to them. The Dog is the natural way of things but the Vanu promote an idealism that breaks the common cycle and allows you to control it with reason and logic. Things WOULD BE a lot more peaceful in that regard. The only reason why I fear the Vanu is because of their SOURCE of that logic. The Vanu themselves; whatever they are.

Again there is no evidence of this just like there is no real proof of why Briggs went suicidal or if the Voices the VS Leaders hear are truly Vanu or just schizophrenia from some unknown radiation from the Vanu Tech.
It could be true; but I'm not sure. Mankind is the only example we have and just look at the Vanu themselves? "Join us or die!" and please remember they are inspired by Vanu supposedly in all their ways of thinking!
Now grant it, they really didn't want to fight a war in the beginning but they sure as hell felt it was necessary to justify war at the present by quoting "Vanu this" and "Evolve that" in your typical cult like mannerism that doesn't seem to propagate individual level thought. Not with that sort've fanaticism, I'm sorry.

Well, this, like the Nanites is where the Fi comes in the Sci Fi. Terra-forming, while possible? Would be very energy consuming and very slow. For example, if you wanted to make Mars another "Earth", than good 'Effing luck doing it. You're going to need to increase it's size to just enough to compact the core with enough density to begin to heat the mantel again in order to start the convection process that creates a Magnetic Feild with at least close the stregnth of Earth's. Then once that is done, you'll need to replace the atmosphere it lost which is no easy task at all either. Consider this... despite Earth's tiny size, we'd still be able to breath for close to 1,000 years if our Sun suddenly disappeared. That's how much atmosphere we have. Space Ship Earth could go on for a few clicks with no sun (ignoring that things will start to get cold as the years go by). So yes, Lore wise? Maybe we're pretty bad *** and the Vanu a MORE bad *** still and Space is a "normal" thing... but we're going to definately go with "suspension of disbelief" on that.

No, I do believe you'd be wrong from what I've learned. Technocracy would actually promote only those with certain requirements to positions because purely technological or sicientific logic would in fact admit that NO, NOT EVERY ONE is born EQUAL. You'd actually find a Technocracy vey close to the modern military system. For example, I aced the ASVAB with above 98 percentile but I still can't serve because I'm blind in one eye. This gets me a label known as "4F", medically or physically unable to serve.
For the Technocracy, the common deciding factor would be IQ for example. Technocracies are rules by officiating leaders in their fields; posts that can only be held if you're literally just "that good" at what you do. The average citizen would not have the IQ to promote to that level.
The only way to break that barrier is through cybernetic evolution (something the Vanu wish to achieve) but then you kind'a cease to being a government and our more like a "system" governed by programming which is... ironically... back at step one - animals with pre-programmed instincts. The only difference is that the synthetic beings can actually change their instinct on the fly at will to adept to change. Animal instinct can do this too? It just takes a few generations of failures first XD

EXACTLY

It goes both ways my friend.


BTW, I appreciate the conversation! It's been fun so far.

If only there was a faction that didn't claim that they owned ****, believes auraxis should be for the benefit of others, but there are ****heads destroying it we have to stop (NC TR VS) I would join that faction

BTW It has not been proven that the molten core is a result of pressure from gravity . IMO the core is nuclear (Fission not Fusion ) So claiming mars cannot be terraformed is a pretty bold statement. Grass can grow almost anywhere . Start with the hardiest grasses and see where it goes. That is if we are actually going to mars and it isn't propaganda to condition our belief systems( plato's cave)

1 - I never it can't be terra-formed. In the first sentence I said that I agree it's possible, it's just very consuming to do so. Just for 1 world. The TR were terra-forming a majority of Sol. That's an insane feat that requires suspension of disbelief.
2 - It has been proven. Mass = Gravity. Higher Density Mass = more Gravity and thus more pressure. More pressure means more heat. Not only is this proven, but virtually everything we know uses it. The Big Bang expanded so quickly and was so stupidly hot because of how dense the universe was. The Sun's fusion cycles require it's mass to work. If the sun was much less dense (and thus less gravitational field) its fusion would be far different and incapable of producing elements like IRON. http://science.howstuffworks.com/fusion-reactor2.htm
3 - Experimentation proved the theory. Hell I see it every day almost. When I do an engineering audit of the forges at my facility, the steel billots is compressed by the hammers so violently that they HEAT UP from the pressure of being slammed between the two dies. Also this: http://firstlook.pnas.org/planets-magnetic-fields-come-from-more-complex-inner-flows-than-thought/ and http://www.universetoday.com/14664/...hs-magnetic-field-build-your-own-baby-planet/
In the first, liquid metal was proven to be a little easier (but more complex) to keep heated than previously though. The latter is the popular test using Liquid Sodium which silenced nay sayers once and for all that yes, convected molten metal does in fact create a planets magnetic field.

LUL CUZ TR HAZ BEST GUNS WOOOO

On a serious note, TR wants to reunite with NC and VS under their totalitarian regime which neither NC nore VS want.

The rate the VS cult scientists wanted to and did research Vanu Tech. Would have created a surge of High powered weaponry that could disrupt the balance of the TR empire, creating a NC faction that could actually break away instead of being funded by Nanite-Co and CocaCola

Just repeat all that to yourself. Does that sound like something this guy would say:



Or this guy:



It's not really difficult to figure out if it sounds like hard science or cult fantasy.

B/c Lasers & Dubstep are so 2011

Fine the Terran Republic accepts the VS's apology and surrender, please form an orderly queue at your nearest incinerator for Re-education.

You can't reeducate people if they aren't willing to tell you where all their rebirthing stations are and how can you know they all surrendered and submitted to the TR?

Because the VS are freaking stupid, the TR will never ally with such fools

Haven't read the lore at great length, but I sort of wondered why Vanu and NC don't team up against TR.

They're both frustrated with TR's control-freak tendencies. Wouldn't NC be more or less indifferent to the VS desire to research their alien crud without interference? NC might not be 'on board' with Vanu, but with their whole 'freedom to do what you want' vibes, it seems like at worst NC just wouldn't care what Vanu was experimenting with unless it got really dark and extremely unethical.

Unless of course, it's true that the VS is more cult/fanatical than just logical scientists and intellectuals seeking to benefit humanity.

If those two were to have a strange lovechild that's who would be saying it. The VS are supposed to be a melding of religion and science. I made a post on it here.

I've wondered this as well. We'd become Vanu Corp.

Indeed. Our experiments can only get dark to a certain extent since we always have nanites to bring our purely voluntary test subjects back to life, and nanites to do the experiments themselves.

It's kind of both, see my reply to ColonelChingles.

Look, if you dilute science with mythology and religion, you can't call it a hard science anymore.

If I say, "oh, I observe that when I release an object from my hand it drops towards the ground", that is a scientific observation. But if I append that statement with, "oh, I observe that when I release an object from my hand it drops towards the ground because there are tiny long-dead invisible gnomes pulling it down" what I said is no longer remotely scientific, even though it was based on a scientific observation.

In terms of the VS, it's one thing to observe that there are indeed ruins and technologies leftover from a long-dead civilization. That's not in dispute. But where it goes from scientific to crazy is when you start hearing voices, believe in telepathy, and start worshiping random deities.

As for your reddit post, I would point out this key difference between PS2 and most forms of Buddhism: in Buddhism you seek to advance yourself through overcoming your internal desires and drives, but in PS2 you are rewarded (namely by acquiring certs and EXP) from engaging in and orchestrating conflict.

So I would say that one of the other comments on reddit provides a better analogy: Valhalla. Where life is about joyous (albeit pointless) conflict where wounds don't really matter. That's what PS2 is... combat reduced to a form of harmless entertainment.

In Buddhism you live to escape conflict and combat... but in Valhalla that is essentially the point of your existence. From that, I would conclude that PS2 is closer to Norse mythology than it is to Indo-Chinese belief.