What is with all the constant hate of the Infiltrator ans obsession with anti-armor weapons?

You want C4, Anti-Armor rifles, permanenetly 100% invisible cloak, lower cloak sound, shotguns, Thermal vision, Anti-armor EMP grenades, A hacking tool that can hack vehicles and generators etc.

Why is it so hard to just accept the class for what it is and play accordingly?

People say the Light Assault is a better infiltrator than the infiltrator. What is the actual difference? The LA Flies, the Inf cloaks. The LA have C4, the infiltrator have mines and the Hacking tool. And then different weapon setups.

In what way can the Light Assault support the team any more than the infiltrator? Yet you never hear anyone complain that the LA cannot support the teammates.

Recon and infiltrator classes have always, in all game, been the most Strategic and tactical class. You have to use your brain when playing it. Reaction time and a steady aim is not equally important.

The Infiltrator is by far the most distinguished of the classes. It separates itself in most areas, from the regular ones.

So why is it so hard to swallow that the infiltrator can not counter enemy Armor? Is it really so tough that you have to use your skills to circumvent them, instead of just being able to Leeroy charge up with 2 boxes of C4, like every other class?

Why are you so obsessed with being able to kill enemy armor? There are tons of other things you can do instead. Why do you focus on what you can't, instead of what you can?

The cloak gets a lot of hate. It's not perfect, you say. It doesn't need to be perfect. You just have to, once again, use your brain. Play on its strengths. Stop complaining about its weaknesses.

As you have seen from my videos, i can use the cloak, despite its transparency, to near perfection. So obviously the cloak is capable, and highly potent. You don't need it to be 100% invisible, in order to remain 100% undetected.

The hacking tool gets drowned in hatred. Why? It's extremely useful. One infiltrator can disable a whole Watchtower defense system, and even turn it agaisnt themselves faster than 5 Heavy Assaults can destroy it.

What more do you want? Hack vehicles? Once again, why do you need to fight enemy armor? Why do you not play the role as it is: A support role. You help your teammates destroy the armor. Not by damaging it, but by making it easier for your teammates. The Medic can, but generally doesn't, kill enemy armor. He makes it easier for the Heavy Assault to kill it instead. The infiltrator cannot destroy vehicles directly, but he can make sure the enemy does not get any more.

People want the Stalker cloak. What do you intend to use it for? Alright, you are invisible. You are inside the enemy base. Apparently just killing people or taking out key targets is not enough for you. What do you intend to actually use that Stalker Cloak for?

You want to support your teammates? You can do that in more ways than any other class. You just need to think about it. I can pull at least 5 things off my head right now that i can do to completely turn the tide of a battle.

This whole subforum is just one long list of people who are so unhappy with the class. And seemingly everythigng about it. I just dont see why.

Or well, i see it. Partially. I see a lot of people who simply cannot accept that the class does not play the way they want it to play. They complain that they are not 100% invisible. But why do you need to be, if the current camo, evidently, can be used practically as good as if it was 100%. What do you actually intend to use it for if you get it?

The Infiltrator is, in my opinon, the most skill-based class in the game. And i see so many people here complain just that it takes skill to use it. They want the shoortcut. Instead of learning it, they want to have the victory handed to them on a platter.

So, what is it actually about the infiltrator that makes you think it is so useless? What is it that all the other classes can do, that you can not (Except for destroying vehicles)? Is there actually anything? You are so obsessed with being able to do more. But what is this "more" that you speak of?

Sure, the class needs improvment in some areas. But this whole thing, trying to change the whole class into something different, it just is not necessary.

And finally, since people think that the Cloak and current class is insufficient. I want you to give me a challenge. I will use the current cloak, and the current tools the Infiltrator have at its disposal, in order to complete what challenge you offer me.

You want me to infiltrate and creep around scouting for enemies?
Some people have been expressing a desire to be a scout. No problem. I can do it as it is now.

You want me to sneak up and assassinate people undetected? I already have videos of that.

What is it that you want to do, that you feel that you cannot do now? Tell me, and i will prove you wrong.

Long, but well said.

I always felt like a pawn waiting to get blitzed by a rook (tank/lib) until I rolled my first infiltrator. I have since dumped almost all of my money/certs into this amazing class. I frequently have 20/2 runs and have brought my K/D ratio up to .99 from .40 (medic drug me down so fast).

I have 600+ headshots and have only been playing Infiltrator since the first of the year. I have completely shut down bases from the very edge of my rendering distance. Whether it's medics rezing, engineers healing, or heavy's with their lock-ons. I have taken out sniper nests because they sit close with their semi-autos. I have shut down vehicle spawns by sniping the Barnies and Elmos as they create their tanks and planes.

To anyone who thinks this class is under powered, I say, "Please, spread the word!" The fewer snipers there are to deal with me, the more carnage I can cause.

As we have stated a million times, the problem is not that we cannot do something. The problem is, with the exception of sniping, every other class can do what we can, and better for most of the cases.

How to deal with vehicles:
http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...nk-line-as-an-infiltrator.81300/#post-1054252

But only works if the enemy is not paying attention after the first couple of shots and only around bases.

How to CQC:
http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...cqc-with-semi-autos.83557/page-4#post-1113758
http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...awesome-non-sniping-infiltration-video.80128/

A LA infiltrating
http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...-infiltrator-than-an-infiltrator.79952/page-6

And I can give you a video for pretty much anything.... I even got a 12 kill by blowing up a fully loaded galaxy with my infiltrator. So, yes, most things can be done. The galaxy kill was with my drop pod. I have also infiltrated a air tower behind enemy lines while wearing my dual burster max, and blew up a few planes before a couple of heavies got me.

The thing is, for every 1-2 videos or stories you see for infiltrator being able to do things, there are 100s for the other classes doing the same things.

This class is balanced around sniping. We all agree that is well balanced at that. The problem is, our hacking ability, requires us to get outside our optimal range. We have to be able to effectively infiltrate to be able to hack. The tool we are given is our cloak. but as you have read, the best way to use the cloak is to not use it at all and use cover instead. So, can we get a different ability instead of our cloak?

Except that is not true. No other class can completely disrupt a whole entrenched enemy squad, while completely undetected.

No other class can completely stop the Tank-reinforcements of a facility for several minutes. Or completely disable the enemy AA.

THe infiltrator is by far the deadliest and most disruptive class in the game. No other class can cause so much chaos as the Infil.

If a MAX comes around the corner and opens fire, sure he can kill a lot of enemies. But they are quickly replenished. And the enemy knows that when the MAX is dead, the threat is neutralized. Everyone saw it alive, everone see it dead.

However, an infiltrator with a silencer, sitting in a bush. The enemy watch their teammates drop dead without a single hint aso to what the threat is, or how to deal with it. The soldiers will be too busy tryign to stay alive to shoot at your friends. The medics will stop healing and pull out their gun.

And if someone actually manages to kill you, most of the time nobody else will notice. The enemies will still be paranoid and try to look for you.

So no, when it comes to disruption and break entrenchments, no other class is as good as the infiltrator. No other class can cause so much havoc, simply due to the fact that they are undetected.

Try this: find a good spot near a vehicle terminal and snipe anyone who tries to get a vehicle. People will be running around like crazy, trying to find out who is shooting at them. If someone is stupid enough to try to get a vehicle, he is dead. In the meantime, your friendly armor is casually advancing on the base.

If the enemy gets killed by a Light assault on a watchtower, they will head straight up to the roof and look for him. He cant hide forever.

But you can't fight what you can't see.

It really is this in a nutshell, and took me a VERY long time to find my way, 1500 deaths or so before I put down my expectations and started thinking clearly. In the last week or so I have radically changed my stat trend.

I can only speak for myself of course, but for some reason I really struggled to figure out how to use both my fighter craft and my infiltrator. I honestly don't know why, because it's all so clear to me now.

If I had to sum up why things are working for me now, it would be what I quoted from you.

Thank you for your post. I wish I had read it a month ago.

TL;DR.
Knew what you were saying anyways. Thing is, Infiltrators need something to make them viable. It doesn't have to be everything, but it still has to be enough, which is why we are throwing everything at the Developers in hopes that accept something.
There are no "strengths" to play with this class unless you're sniping, which isn't the point of this class. All sorts of unnecessary weaknesses too.
Its quickly becoming the Infiltrator motto but: "You can do everything right and still lose." -Dr. Euthanasia

And everything you are stating is what we all agree we do best. Sniping. I posted my stats, so you can see that is what I do best. I can keep the enemy from pulling vehicles from crossroads for as long as I have ammo, or some plane with thermal finds me. I can keep the ridges clear at crown, or the turrets from being repaired on amp stations. I know how powerful the sniper class can be, and that is the part that everyone agrees with.

They could give LA the hacking ability and make it more effective, while not changing much on infiltrator play style. Most of our kills are already from sniping, at any range. Some peeps are really good with pistol/knife, but they would be good at that combo with any class.

For a class that needs to get close and personal to use hacking, we are lacking the tools to be able to do it any better them any other class. A infiltrator should have an advantage at infiltrating, the same way HA has a shield that works, and Medics have healing that heals. If he medic heal gun only worked if you were already at full health, it would be kind of pointless, right? If our cloak only works if we use cover, or not use it at all in CQC, since the noise gives you away (16-20 meter range on the noise), we can also safely say it is useless, right?

You want C4, Anti-Armor rifles, permanenetly 100% invisible cloak, lower cloak sound, shotguns, Thermal vision, Anti-armor EMP grenades, A hacking tool that can hack vehicles and generators etc.

I can see where people are coming from with a lot of these requests, giving the infil more tools to do a different job than what they really are suppose to do. many people feel the infil is a unfinished class and some of it i can agree with but infil is very much at this point an elitist who could have been a HA with some awesome fire power but no, could have been an engy with some nice tools but no, that's not what an infil is, he is a loner (most of the time) who sabotages the enemy when he can and where he can.

Why is it so hard to just accept the class for what it is and play accordingly?

mainly because people don't know what the class really is i think.

Recon and infiltrator classes have always, in all game, been the most Strategic and tactical class. You have to use your brain when playing it. Reaction time and a steady aim is not equally important.
The Infiltrator is by far the most distinguished of the classes. It separates itself in most areas, from the regular ones.

I think everyone brings a lot of the other classes mentality to the infil and none of them work because the infil is so different/ rifle,pistol utility slot and hacking tool with a 10 second cloak it is pretty restrictive compared to the other classes cornucopia of options but i know it can be done with time, effort and planning.

So why is it so hard to swallow that the infiltrator can not counter enemy Armor? Is it really so tough that you have to use your skills to circumvent them, instead of just being able to Leeroy charge up with 2 boxes of C4, like every other class?

it doesn't help that effectively every Armour that runs HE runs infrared or thermal sights to instantly see all activity, maybe a way to somewhat circumvent this would be nice in the future but i don't expect it to happen.It's mainly the mentality in the game that infils are easy kills compared to every other class.

Why are you so obsessed with being able to kill enemy armor? There are tons of other things you can do instead. Why do you focus on what you can't, instead of what you can?

mainly because people want to play infil and be able to deal with vehicles like other classes and that is not going to happen even down the line from the looks of it.

The cloak gets a lot of hate. It's not perfect, you say. It doesn't need to be perfect. You just have to, once again, use your brain. Play on its strengths. Stop complaining about its weaknesses.

I think the cloak get's a lot of hate because it is the only option and very rough on anyone new to the class without dumping in a lot of certs to make it more viable the transparency and the use of the short charge and sound it makes get's on a lot of people nerves

As you have seen from my videos, i can use the cloak, despite its transparency, to near perfection. So obviously the cloak is capable, and highly potent. You don't need it to be 100% invisible, in order to remain 100% undetected.

my questions is how long have you been playing infil? and how certed is your infil? because a lot of people try infil get destroyed because it effectively take a good 10 minute instructional video on how to play the infil, unless you put in the time to learn the in's and out's of the infil.

The hacking tool gets drowned in hatred. Why? It's extremely useful. One infiltrator can disable a whole Watchtower defense system, and even turn it agaisnt themselves faster than 5 Heavy Assaults can destroy it.

ok that's just flat out wrong man, the ha's would blow up the tower faster than the infil can hack everything.

What more do you want? Hack vehicles? Once again, why do you need to fight enemy armor? Why do you not play the role as it is: A support role. You help your teammates destroy the armor. Not by damaging it, but by making it easier for your teammates. The Medic can, but generally doesn't, kill enemy armor. He makes it easier for the Heavy Assault to kill it instead. The infiltrator cannot destroy vehicles directly, but he can make sure the enemy does not get any more.

it's not going to happen the dev don't want to deal with the implications of vehicle hacking and it should be more put more in the for front more often so people know the dev's are not doing it.

People want the Stalker cloak. What do you intend to use it for? Alright, you are invisible. You are inside the enemy base. Apparently just killing people or taking out key targets is not enough for you. What do you intend to actually use that Stalker Cloak for?

people love options even if it is a worse option they want options and i can't blame them. Hunter cloak is all we got and honestly if the stalker cloak had more transparency issues and a longer cloak time i think people would just call it flat out better and honestly i couldn't blame them.

You want to support your teammates? You can do that in more ways than any other class. You just need to think about it. I can pull at least 5 things off my head right now that i can do to completely turn the tide of a battle.

...im sorry you are wrong, engy can and does more things to support the team than the infil can, yes the infil can hack turret's and terminal, including vehicle terminals but when it comes down to the wire the engy day in and out does more support for the team in general. I can tell you are angry at all of the hate the infil get's and it seems pretty close to your heart and you are probably making this in a haze of anger right now.

This whole subforum is just one long list of people who are so unhappy with the class. And seemingly everythigng about it. I just dont see why.

all other classes have more options than the infill right now, and they don't see any coming down the pipe any time soon that's why they are throwing idea's and hate like it's going out of style right now.

Or well, i see it. Partially. I see a lot of people who simply cannot accept that the class does not play the way they want it to play. They complain that they are not 100% invisible. But why do you need to be, if the current camo, evidently, can be used practically as good as if it was 100%. What do you actually intend to use it for if you get it?

The Infiltrator is, in my opinon, the most skill-based class in the game. And i see so many people here complain just that it takes skill to use it. They want the shoortcut. Instead of learning it, they want to have the victory handed to them on a platter.

at least make it easier on new players so the more skilled at the class can really make the class shine in it's niche.

So, what is it actually about the infiltrator that makes you think it is so useless? What is it that all the other classes can do, that you can not (Except for destroying vehicles)? Is there actually anything? You are so obsessed with being able to do more. But what is this "more" that you speak of?

i don't want to be an ***...but...resupply, heal,repair, lay down covering fire, max tanking rounds. to name the majority of what the other classes can do that the infil can't do that make them more appealing the majority of the time.

Sure, the class needs improvment in some areas. But this whole thing, trying to change the whole class into something different, it just is not necessary.

I agree the infil needs love, but slow love planed out love not just insta super infil next patch.

And finally, since people think that the Cloak and current class is insufficient. I want you to give me a challenge. I will use the current cloak, and the current tools the Infiltrator have at its disposal, in order to complete what challenge you offer me

You want me to infiltrate and creep around scouting for enemies?
Some people have been expressing a desire to be a scout. No problem. I can do it as it is now.

You want me to sneak up and assassinate people undetected? I already have videos of that.

What is it that you want to do, that you feel that you cannot do now? Tell me, and i will prove you wrong.

I have already brought up quite a few examples that makes them unique and viable.

This seems to be such a general idea, and i cannot understand why.

"It shouldn't be a sniper"

"This is not how the class should be played"

etc.

So what is actually the point with the class? Infiltrating? You can already do that? Scouting? Perfectly viable. Tell me, what do you actually want to do with your class, instead of just saying that what it is is not enough.

And why is the point of the class Not to snipe? Because it is called Infiltrator? Because it have a combination of tools for both sniping and infiltrating? Why do you look at it as one bad-mix class, instead of a class with multiple oportunities?¨

The Medic have a healgun and a Rifle. He can play as a self-healing soldier, or as a support revive. A poor comparison, i know. But Why is it so hard to just combine what you have into a useful cocktail?

Then you are obviously not doing it right. Or you are tryign to pull off some random stunt that doesn't contribute. Once again: What do you actually want to do with the class?

From the planetside 2 class wiki:

Their covert nature gives them a unique set of strengths. As any shadow or heat shimmer could be an Infiltrator lying in wait, the fear they instill in other soldiers is as deadly a weapon as any. Whether they’re relaying critical information to their empire, laying in wait to strike a target, or preventing an enemy advance, skilled Infiltrators will make sure the only traces they leave behind are enemy corpses.

Let's look at this piece by piece:

Right now, the only "strength" we have is headshots, and that is nerfed by render distance. Certainly cloak is unique to us, but it's hardly a "strength" or there would not be so many forum posts asking for even the tiniest crumb more, even in terms of a DURATION cert. Let a BR 20 Infiltrator stay invisible longer than a BR 1 infiltrator. Hacking MIGHT be a strength if it were not for the fact that (at least on Mattherson where I play) most teams don't even bother to repair their turrets after conquering a base.

There is currently no mistaking a cloaked infiltrator for anything else, especially with the cheap and ubiquitous IRNV. At the very least, let us buy some cosmetic items to change the cloak texture to match the terrain better. I'd pay good money for cloak patterns like the average player buys a snow camo for esamir and a giraffe camo for the NC.

The extent to which I can instill fear in other players begins and ends with "Wee! Look at me! I can zig-zag!" No matter how many I kill someone who tries to sneak up on me with a well-placed proxmine, nobody is at all afraid of me or my class.

Only if I'm a squad leader with /orders certed...

Ok, you got me. This much is working as advertised...except for CQC. I can't really even hide behind barrels reliably. Good luck waiting outside a destroyed generator for an engineer to show up, unless you just spent infantry resouces on a proxmine.

THIS is why we want vehicle hacking or C4. Even a MEDIC can prevent an enemy advance better than an infiltrator can. If I could just prevent a sunderer's AMS from functioning for 30 seconds, I'd feel a WHOLE lot more useful

This is why we want a more reliable CQC cloak. While I would not say no to the melee-only 100% permanent cloak, I could live with quite a bit less. I just don't think what we have now is really any better than what any other class can do -- namely go the WHOLE way around a base and hope nobody is at the back door. Certainly this does not describe your play stile at all with the "kill and bail" methodology. They know you are there, they just get bored chasing you when they can just turn around and kill 5 people in the time it takes you to sneak up on somebody else.

I only want a better cloak and C4, don't take every complain you find about the infiltrator and make it sound like it's what everyone wants.

Why I want a better cloak? because the current one is a liability, you can preach all you want about how to use the cloak correctly, I kill infiltrators all the f*cking time because the cloak sound tells me where I should be looking. The cloak is only useful for getting rid the of spot mark. I hardly use it and I can't tell the difference.

Why I want C4? because even the medic can deal with armor, why the f*ck infiltrators can't?

The Infiltrator sucks. That is simply the problem. It is the weakest class in the game by a large margin. It needs to be fixed. What could be fixed you might add? Look through the 83 pages of threads on the Infiltrator Forums.

One really, REALLY important thing that you haven't mentioned. There was a game called PS1. That game had a class called an Infiltrator. This is PS2. This game has a class called an Infiltrator.

Alot of the issues that people are having, especially veterans of PS1 is that it feels wrong. The class just feels wrong for them. PS1 Infiltrators had cloak up permanently and could shoot while cloaked (that can't really happen in PS2 with changes to TTK), but even so was very, very bad at killing people. What it excelled at was slow passed, guile based chaos, ideally not even giving the enemy a hint that an infiltrator was around.

When PS2 was announced, I'm sure a great number of former PS1 players were unbelievably excited (I know I was) to see the updated game and mechanics. What we got was an amalgamation of two classes, the sniper and the infiltrator. Hunter cloak is balanced entirely around sniping, and it does its job well. But what we were promised in beta (and I believe at launch though I'm not entirely sure on that one) was a version of the cloak that allowed people to play like a PS1 Infiltrator, low power, high avoidance, basically transforming this into a much slower game for the infiltrator, but making them require more information (troop movements, vehicle avoidance, targets and the like) to function.

Watching your videos (have you ever tried as such with an NC infil or TR? You could probably do the same, but I think you'd have a slightly harder time simply due to the VS actually dressing correctly for infiltration and having a better cloaking sound), you do make a form of infiltrator work. You use fast paced, avoiding LOS and enemy expectations to attempt to make up for deficiencies in the cloak. Indeed, it does appear to work for the most part.

But, and this is important, it doesn't evoke an infiltrator to me. What you seem to be doing in your videos reminds me of a skilled player in deathmatch, but nothing like an infiltrator who should be slow, methodical with the occasional burst of energy. Its nothing like the PS1 infiltrator, and this I believe it's biggest problem (apart from everything else ) is that while we expected some updates to the mechanics, such as the loss of firing while cloaked due to updating the game and adjusting values like TTK, we expected the *core* of the infiltrator to still remain. It doesn't. It's a mere shell of its former self and that pains us everytime we play infiltrator (my only class) and are forced to deal with a confused cloak (requiring you to hurry due to short time, but making the cloak exponentially worse by doing so) and we cast our minds back to PS1.

I honestly would be fine if the stalker was nothing more then a cloak that didn't reduce energy while not moving, keeping the exact same for everything else (with my primary stripped of course), but this is not an infiltrator. This is a sniper whose long range cloak you have managed to leverage through some skill and enemies weakness (a very infiltratory thing to do mind you) to allow you to rack up kills in CQB.

TL;DR You can't name a class the same in a sequel if you're not going to keep the core of it (you can change mechanics though)

Ztiller, we're pretty much fated to be mortal enemies, so I'm going to keep this quick because I really don't have the time to write a back-and-forth argument with you about everything you just said.

This right here is an outright lie. The way you play the class has nothing to do with being undetected. You run straight into people and then run away if they see through your cloak. Just because you escape alive and lose them shortly afterwards does not mean that they didn't see you, and if someone feels threatened by the fact that they just let an Infiltrator slip past their lines, that's all the knowledge they need to make your life very, very difficult.

Nobody would just let you go if you had C4 or anti-tank mines. They would raise hell to find you before you reached their Sunderer. While idiocy and incompetence are definitely huge contributing factors to why your methods work, you can't just ignore the fact that these people aren't afraid of you getting away and killing them, because death is a slap on the wrist at best and the role of an individual, no matter how skilled, is rarely going to be pivotal in a game of this scale. The most common way for a single man to turn the tides of a fight is to destroy an essential spawning option to the enemy team, or alternatively, to provide one for his own. Unfortunately, the lifespan of a Sunderer spawned from a hacked terminal can often be measured in seconds, so we get left in the dust yet again.

IMHO this looks like a troll thread.

One major thing I take issue with in your post is that as of right now Infiltrators don't do much utility wise to help the team. They can slice turrets and turn terminals but at the end of the day I personally believe there is much more potential in our hacking tool. I feel like the CQB infiltrator's role in the grand scheme of things is limited.

A big reason for this is the games overall lack of a meta-game, but I do feel like the CQB infiltrator suffers a particularly strong lack of utility for a support class.

Also, and you only touched on this briefly, the sound on the cloak is self-defeating Even more so the fact that the sound is faction specific, creating imbalances and making de facto better infiltrators based on factions (can't have separate but equal). If, for some reason, the sound absolutely has to stay (but I do think that's poor design, especially considering how quiet jet packs are for some reason) then they should at least make all the sounds non-faction specific. That way the imbalance is removed, and also I feel like the ability to identify the faction of an infiltrator simply by ear is not a necessary hamstring on the class. I, personally, would like to see the volume decreased as well but that's more opinion than anything else.

I generally agree with everything else though. I think a lot of these posts that talk about anti-vehicle functionality would just like us to have neat gadgets that have neat utility.

For instance, I think it would be neat if we could set a gadget down that would target the nearest enemy vehicle and put a lock on it. Never fire, just a lock. Something to kind of function as a psychological ward. Maybe even bait flares.

Just so we can give a little something more to the team.

Simply put, an offensive action should always require more effort than a defensive one. This is why I tend to accept the infiltrator class as is. Being able to get into a base's core and disable defenses and terminals probably should be the most difficult feat in the game to accomplish. It currently is, and I feel that's how it should remain. But that's our 'Hail Mary' play. As it stands there's quite a lot an infiltrator can do, both offensively and defensively, better than any other class, especially with how the game is evolving.

One in particularly, I wish other infiltrators would join me in keeping the base's Heavy Assault AA/AV groups either suppressed or pushing up daisies. Becuase with the increasing number of lock on rocket owners, snipers are becoming necessary to thin out defending HAs, to give allied tanks and aircraft a smoother approach. By doing this you're supporting both, and the larger scale game. And we're set up to do this better than any other class. You can even do substantial damage to a MAX suit sending them for either cover, reducing their air coverage, or an engineer (who you can kill too) thereby weakening or even creating a break in their AA/AV defenses. Of course the MAX suit tactic won't yield a lot of certs, so despite being extremely helpful, it still requires the player to be particularly altruistic.

As for those saying we're useless in AV need to focus on engineers more. Seriously, only shoot engineers, let everyone else go, everyone else gets a pass except for engineers, and medics but only when they're trying to revive a dead engineer. Killing the fodder will call too much attention to yourself too quickly. Watch for black smoke, then drop the driver or gunner when they get out to fix. I've seriously left empty tanks sitting in the road from at attacking base to a defending one, which makes hilarious traffic jams if they retreated too far back for the defenders to scrap. For the rest, the longer a tank is damage the easier it is for your teammates to kill or the longer it will stay out of the fight all together.

The largest issue with the class, from a PS1 infil's perspective, is that they have boiled the class down into what in the original game was referred to -- with great derision -- as an AmpTard. That is, the class is all about picking off kills now. Either as a sniper, or as a bouncing 'cloaker', who relies on having to bounce around and more or less move like a spider monkey jacked up on Mountain Dew, rather than on thoughtful, patient movement.

The lone concession to the old PS1 type of gameplay is hacking terminals/turrets. However, this isn't made overwhelmingly strategic since the terminals most likely to be used by the enemy are inside their shielded spawnroom.

In PS1, the class was more akin to a game of chess; thoughtful, methodical movements working towards a tactical objective, that while not wholly easy to achieve, once achieved caused fight-shifting ramifications on the battle field. I'm talking about dropping generators, blowing spawn tubes and terms, hacking the CC of an interlink and taking out the radar for a few seconds (and later the viruses, which took things a step too far IMO). It wasn't about just trying to 'assassinate' players -- an objective that doesn't make any sense in a game where all players are essentially equal; it was about letting kills go by with an eye on a more important objective that you alone could pull off.

There is no comparison in PS2. You're asking for us to give you a challenge to show what we want to be able to do, that you can't. But such a challenge is nonsensical. It is impossible to prove our point by issuing a challenge, because there is no mechanic in game through which an infiltrator can impact the fight in even a 1/10th of a degree of the PS1 infiltrator; and that is precisely the issue.


It is not a problem of not recognizing the strengths and weaknesses of the suit, because the suit is not the main problem; the main problem is the lack of objectives. Though the very limited cloak time does turn what used to be a slow and methodical chess match into a quick and ugly game of checkers, and that also needs to be addressed. In beta there was a cert for a indefinite-cloak, but it was removed without comment and that was a mistake, one of many they've made with the class.

I play infiltrator because I enjoy difficult things; I enjoy outsmarting my would be victims; I enjoy making headshots; I sometimes enjoy running for my own virtual life.

It has been my experience that the hunters cloak is adequate for most CQB work, and excellent for many sniping tasks. It is a shame that an invisible and ubiquitous 30 cert attachment hard counters our class ability, but hey, thats life.

There are two things I would like to see the infiltrator do better:
One, is the ability to influence air and ground vehicles, this is after all SunderSide2; it wouldn't have to be a particularly offensive tool either, perhaps a different type of marker which would permanently mark that vehicle on all friendly HUDS, granting an XP bonus for those that kill it, and a small slice for the infiltrator.
Two, is a more potent CQB option,I find it ridiculous that our most potent weapon at point blank ranges should be our handgun. This might change once the SMG is released, but having unlocked all the scout rifles, I would have liked to see some use for them.

-k

Alright, so after reading most of the replies, it would seem that the main problem that people have with the Infiltrator is that it cannot Directly influence the battle. The Heavy assault can push through a defence, directly influencing the field. The Medic can revive and heal, also directly influencing. The Engineer with his ammo and MANA etc.

But the infiltrator is not a direct class. It is an indirect class at core. By hacking a terminal you can effectively, but indirectly, remove 10+ tanks from the enemy lines. You dont get any kills, but the end result is the same as your forces destroying the tanks manually. Sniping medics will not directly influence the battle, but rather indirectly weaken the enemy lines allowing for your teammates to push through.

The same goes for causing disruption and chaos. It is not something that can be measured. But that doesn't mean it is not there.

When it comes to Directly influencing the battle, like destroying vehicles and generators etc, then yes. All other classes can do as good, if not better. But as i stated, that is not the intention of the infiltrator. It is not made for direct confrontation.

I still feel that there are a lot of people who actually don't really know what they want with the infiltrator. I have only gotten a few clear suggestions. Like with the Stalker Cloak, people say they want it, but not what they intend to use it for, or how it should influence the battle more than it already does.

I have never played PS1. I understand that the classes are different, but not how. However, why do you let the way thigns were, in another game, dictate how you play your character in this game? You are obsessed with how it was, to the point where you cannot accept how it is.

This is one of the things i can definetly agree on. Yet i still have not heard anyone speak of how any other class have more objectives.

The sound difference is quite minimal, as explained below. Also, yes i have infiltrated with a NC. I did quite well with it, even on level 1. I was trying to assassinate BuzzCutPsyho, and was strolling around in the middle of The Enclave tryign to figure out which one to stab. So yes, it works. For all factions.

Define "sucks". It is one of the deadliest, one of the stealthiest and one of the most maneuverable classes in the game, on equal par with the Light Assault, but varying with situation.

And finally, a lot of people complain about how the cloak gives you away. I'm not sure how you play, but i can probably count the times that i have been detected due to my cloak on one hand. You talk as if it is a deafening sound that stretches acros the map, while in reality it is more of a whisper. Unless someone is actively sitting around trying to listen for it, they wont notice it. And 99.9% of the times, the enemy is not.