The MAX is not "OP" for a couple of simple reasons. To keep a MAX constantly topped off you pretty much need an Engineer strapped to them constantly for repairing. If you don't have an Engineer you large downtime going to find an Engineer or using self repair. While repairing that Engineer is not contributing to the fight. What I'm saying is that it takes team work to keep a MAX alive and that having a MAX up has an opportunity cost in terms of offensive power. When you view that MAX as a single unit it seems very powerful. When you view it as part of a team it seems balanced. As long as a MAX/Engineer team can easily be taken out by two HAs or two LAs it will remain balanced.
If you want some challenge with MAX, roll a VS Vortex MAX. Your kills and score might be a bit low in the start, but when you start to master the weapons, they are really good even after the latest stealth nerf against infantry/maxes.
A) This isnt a MMORPG, where you hunt phat loot with other carebears. B) This is supposedly a competitive FPS game, where skill should matter in a 1vs1. Right now MAX's, especially NC+Vanu MAX's are just hands down better then any other option if you are gonna fight in a base. One MAX can easily cruise around a biolap/tower instant gibbing any infantry that comes close. And with the nerf to concussion nades its even harder to kill them. If they die, they need to stay dead. And one HA/LA/Engi/inf/medic can do even less then one MAX. Your point? Anything or anyone that is unsupported/solo in PS2 plays deathmatch. Lock-ons? Sure. Regular infantry weapons? Not even close, regular infantry weapons actually needs to hit the target, not just in the vicinity of the target. A lot of newbie players do run around in MAX's and a lot of them die fast, because PS2 has a brutal learning curve - but the newbies die even faster, with even less impact when they play regular infantry.
What you describe is only part of the gameplay, I kill aircrafts and get infantry kills with dual burster at both close and longer mid range. I guess killing, helping to kill and scare off aircrafts dont really count enymore 'cause they are so useless anyway..right? "Always stand behind infantry"...maby whipe of your screen. Many times I get up infront, unload my clips and soak up damage before falling back to get repair. Maby this is something new for you and I guess your Outfit in Planetside 2 is the most organized you ever played. What a typical pub. player comment. Not very experiencd in the FPS genre? I guess defending a base doesn't count for much either as I did the whole video or running up that hill to the sundie, even though I was AA. That was to provide AA cover and help puching out to destroy the enemy spawn.
I think perhaps it is time to take a step back and have a deep breath, before you continue to cast aspersions about other posters. Jkar has some perfectly valid viewpoints and is presenting them for debate, whereas you are just being insulting, I think you should acknowledge this and apologise. Now, to the topic at hand. Several people have mastered the art of the MAX takedown - I know this as I play MAX very frequently. It usually involves a handy block of C4, which can turn a potential KDR of 25+ into 0 with two clicks of a mouse. And of course, as a MAX user myself I have an in depth knowledge of how to defeat them too, including: [] Visual impairment with smoke, flash or EMP, whilst explosives are employed. [] Coordinated rocket fire. Two simultaneous rockets = dead MAX. Not hard, even with rookie players, Proximity chat is your friend here. [] Anti-tank mines, either shot or combined with proximity mines. Deadly against the unwary. [] LA's with C4. 'Nuff said about that. [] Vehicles. Surviving when there are Wraith'd Fury Flashes, Enforcer-Harassers or even Lightnings hunting you is made tricky unless you hide a lot. [] Kill off the Engineer and then just flatten the MAX with 2-3 people with small arms fire. In your video you are constantly being repaired, and that is good work by your team mates. Seeing this, your opponents should have adapted. They didn't, thus your kills kept coming. There's more, but you get the idea. A MAX is not an unstoppable killing machine, and your posts often appear to be thinly veiled "Nerf MAX" opinions. I know you don't like MAXes, I've killed you with Bursters several times this month alone and (to my knowledge) you've never killed me. I understand your frustration at not being able to fly all the time. But please, please be a better community member. N.B. - if you trawl the MAX forums with these threads, you are going to get a lot of people disagreeing with you. The same would happen if I went to the Vehicle discussions and demanded ESF nerfs - you'd be rather annoyed too.
He has something to say and I'm insulting? Did you even read what I just replied to? So youv'e killed me a few times, maby you are a really good player, or maby you just play the easier way of playing? Try flying instead and see how well you will be doing. This is a post about balance and if he disagree with my opinion than say it in a mannered way, or get a respons you deserve.
Interesting that you ignored the actual relevant part of the post, where we discuss MAXes. On the MAX forums. I read your responses, but honestly your writing comes over very aggressively.
Well first off sorry if I offended you with my post, but that's what half the video is about and where probably most of that KDR is coming from, staying in a pack of MAX and infantry where you're not really needed because there are already so many people there. Your kill feed also shows the slaughter of a lot of single digit BR players so don't expect much of a challenge from them as you would get from experienced players. Your comment about me being a typical pub player when you in that very video were just a pub player yourself however was out of line if not outright hypocritical. While I'm not part of any outfit, I'm always playing to support my side and I'm playing not for kills but to take territory. I've even got over 200 hours of playing engineer on foot to show for it. Now I took a liking to the MAX and guess what... I still play to support everyone around me, cover people repairing me or freshly revived players with my harder exterior, push out to destroy Sunderers, take the hits for people behind me and cover people from being farmed by air or other ground vehicles.
Personally I think the real issue about MAXs are that they are cheap when it comes to resources. I've played ages many time defending a bio-lab or some facility and never running out of resources. MAXs are BIG exoskeletons with BIG guns. They should be OP but are vulnerable provided the opposition have a little organisation or are bold enough C4 my ****.
Complain that max's are OP and ruining infantry game while surrounded by infantry in a fight using a very mixed bag of all infantry classes on both sides. Complain max's are OP but show a video where only one in twenty players is using a Max. Complain about new max abilities while not using any of them. Show in video max weakness to C4 while mowing down low BR infantry that don't have any. Show a 15 minute video where you only got hit by rockets four times with only one death caused by them. Show some very nice very accurate antiair shooting. The only things I dcan raw from that video is that someone hates Burster max's and is trying to expand that view into a anti max *****. Second is that well aimed burster maybe OP. Not from being low skill as video claims but from being to high of a skill required. That results in bursters damage being balanced towards the average player. Only when you replace that average player with someone who can adjust for range, speed, bulletdrop, and bullet speed does a burster max becomes to strong. Maybe a increase in burster max bullet velocity and decrease damage is in order. That way the average player hits more often offsetting the drop in damage. While skilled player will do less damage with burster compared to before.
I said action games, not MMORPG. Skill always matters no matter the game. Don't be trite or inexact just because it suits your purpose, for that is unskillful. The only time that skill is the ONLY thing that matters is when everything else is exactly the same. Same abilities, same weapons, same latency and technical specs. All other times it is a combination of skill, choice, and luck of the draw. Skill is not simply the ability to be evenly matched. It's knowing when you have the advantage, and knowing when you do not. Balancing caution with boldness. These are all "skill". Yes, there are powerful things that walk this world. And yes, skill matters when fighting them. There are tools that skill can make use of, and tactics to make use of those tools. It is naive to talk of skill and "1 vs 1" as if this was some sort of hygienic jousting match.
And shouldnt skill also mean something the other way around, or do you think its fine to have cheasy easy kill weapons with very little downside in the game? Thats the point, the skill level of which the NC MAX is effective is ridiculous low compared to most other weapons in this game.
You'd have to build an ark if vehicles were only disabled when destroyed until an Engineer healed them up to at least 25% health. Yet, MAXes are just as deadly as tanks, especially to air and squishies. However, they cost far fewer resources, can be pulled from any terminal, can resupply at those terminals to change their role, and can be revived if they screw up and die. Make MAXes die when they are killed.
Can we get something out of the way really quickly? KDR is not a good indication of how good/bad something is, only how good/bad the player using said thing is. You can use the crappiest gun on the weakest class in this (or really any) game and if you are sufficiently skilled get a good KDR. Sorry, just the truth. Now, onto the rest. Bursters: OP or not? I would say slightly OP at the moment, but only so because of the simultaneous air nerfs/AA buffs that took place a while ago as a result of "no-skill lolpodders" being OP. They dont need to be taken out of the game or majorly nerfed; something like (as someone suggested) making them easier to hit with but do noticeably less damage would be adequate. MAX: too easy or not? MAX requires a huge cert investment to be effective at any of its three roles barring extremely favorable circumstances. 1000 certs right off the bat for a second AI/AV/AA weapon. If you want a clone of the stock weapon in those categories, which in the case of AI and AV is not the best weapon. On top of that, 200ish certs so you don't suffer from a punishingly long respawn timer. Armor (Kinetic, Nano-accelerator, Flak) of your choice: lots more. Flak is the cheapest but arguably the worst. In all cases you pay a tidy sum. Arguably, you don't need any of these, but MAXes are bullet and rocket magnets. The only class that doesn't go after MAXes the instant they see them nearly every time is infiltrators. Now add in faction specific ability or charge. Got it? Lots of certs. It's like certing up a tank: lots of things you should have to play the class effectively, whereas in general the other classes play just fine right out of the box. Default MAX on the other hand...sucks to play. It is just Not Fun. Upgraded MAX once you have experience...awesome. But. There's always the but. But here really is code for "none of this really matters unless." But you need an engineer. At some point you WILL need an engineer. MAX is the the single most support-dependent class in the game, which pretty much balances out most of the things that would otherwise be OP about it. It's not like playing a heavy where you can carry medkits to heal yourself, have half your health regen anyway with no cert input, and have one of the better AI and one of the better AV solutions in the game all at the same time. MAX has to choose between AI, AV, and AA. Requires 150 certs to get minimal health regen and sacrifices extra health to do so, which thanks to nanoweave heavies and co. don't. You. Are. Dependent. On. Support. Period. End of story. You can lone wolf with a MAX but half the time its like trying to infiltrate a base as an infiltrator with only your knife and pistol. Does it work? Yes. Does it work best or even well? Meh. (Not dissing pistol-knifing by the way. Great fun, just not terribly efficient). So that is why MAXes are basically balanced with a few outlying issues that are semi-OP at worst, at least in the context of this debate.
Did you guys see those BR3-20 guys who just stopped to get shot. Man that really screams over powered to me and tells me the MAX is completely out of balance... Not really. Too many tears.
ESF vehicles can stay in the air after someone learns how to fly them effectively. I've seen many a max pulled against my group last just long enough to fall on their face. It does require skill to keep them alive because you're the biggest target out there and require a support team to do anything other than tank damage from multiple sources before dieing without a single kill. This thread is bad.
Just wondering why you would wanna keep MAXes like that, playing with low framrate? Like I said in the video, I can actually play ok in a max with a low as 40 FPS
I play max and whenever I use dual bursters on infantry its never as effective as shown in this video. I can maybe take one guy down using my whole clip with my crosshairs on the guy the whole time. Most of the shots just don't register or something. If there's two shooting at me the 2nd guy will finish me off. Im thinking the reason is looked so effective in your video is because there were a lot of other people shooting it at your targets also. Finally, it looked like you were in optimal positions with your max most of the time in the video. However, I do agree though maxes need to be limited in some way. Everyone hated on aircraft before the rocket pod/AA burster changes. Now they are in a good place imo. I suck and flying but I never die from AA bursters unless theres lag due to a high amount of people in one area or if I try to push my luck and get too close to rocket pod with AA around.
