[Video] Sky Knight Bushido - Air Game thoughts

Everywhere I've flown, I've accomplished my goals.

I will say this. No 'skyknight' has ever captured a continent. I do so every time I log in.

Haven't come up with any arguments yet? Posting on reddit is irrelevant. Hey how about this: Ask them reddit guys you rever to come over here and come with an actual argument for you. I'm not going to waste energy going to another forum just because you are inept at thinking for yourself and lie your butt off just to keep it unbalanced in your favor.

Odds are I'm a hundred times more useful than you for my faction. But hey, keep thinking you're doing the massive difference. You're not the one knocking the galaxies out, you're not the one clearing sundies and whiping armor before they ever reach the fight. You're just one more body on the ground. Not even a good one at that.

You've flown probably as far as the first tree. No clue what your goal was there, but glad you could make it.

You can play how you wish. But like I said, don't think you've ever taken anything useful.

Like the story

I saw the honor rules back during SF2:WW in the arcade (in US) in '91. It was widely very popular, and started with "no throwing" and often included any number of random rules within different groups. But some of us in the more cut throat groups didn't care and we used everything we could. I never got threatened, but friend of mine did. Most that happened to me was some local guy at a place I was visiting tried to get me kicked out. Once the throw genie was out of the bottle and spread, everyone started throwing at the high level. And it's been a mindset of use whatever is there ever since.

I don't need to throw to beat most people at SF2. But I use throw because it makes for a much deeper and a more intricate game (throwing is like scissors in "scissors, paper, rock"). SF2 was a great game series because the players stepped up to learn and use the full arsernal and pushed the meta and depth exploration, and because the Devs rocked in digesting the evolving meta and depth, and providing gameplay changes that delivered to increase the playability (across demographics) and depth... and those Devs didn't have access to any type of patch system: they couldn't patch until the next full game version came out.

SF2 is a 1-on-1 game, so the best player + best tactics/strat (+ best character for the matchup) is gonna usually win. PS2 is a multi-player game, so there it's much easier for a group to band together and do revenge hits on anyone they don't like for how they choose to play. It's also a game that sees a lot of people lobbying to keep the game stunted and shallow, and a game where the Devs (largely, Wrel excepted) don't keep up with the game and don't make changes to increase the playability across demographics or increase depth.

I am not a good ESF-vs-ESF player largely because I can't aim well.

Ahh yes, the no-throw rule. Still hear that one even nowadays. Heard that one a few times at the shoppette when I was in AIT back in 2006. We used to have a few Soulcaliber 2 arcade machines at Ft Gordon. I'd do the same thing there. Someone says 'don't throw', it told me they were going to block spam, so I'd throw the crap out of them.

What I don't understand is why some think that personal dueling skill is something that largely matters. I mean being able to point the right end of a weapon at someone is generally needed. But I've taken total noobs and had them take entire bases. Or that somehow solo ESF play actually matters.

Look at what jawa said. He said he was taking on entire Galaxies on his own. Without a team, how does he know he took out the right Galaxy (if he even can, double walkers tends to rip a ESF apart if its solo)? How did he know the people that did drop or died with the Gal didn't simply redeploy to another?

You can't make an impact when it matters when you go around dueling aircraft. Its one of the reasons I hate the ESF so much as far as trying to use it. You can't really make a difference in large fights without a team. Sure it can kill a sundy in short order under the right conditions, but any coordinated attack is going to brush you aisde. I know because I do it all the time on the ground. If a ESF is being pesky, I can get rid of them with a variety of options. Its no sweat. Which is why I don't understand the hatred ground has of air.

That's why I think its ironic that ESFs are compared to Samurai. Samurai were considered as if gods of war by the people of old Japan. The reason this is ironic is because they had alot of rules and protocols in regard to each other. But utter brutality to anyone not of their caste. You all see the same thing here. Skynights do this code with one another and have disdain for anyone who strays, and utterly no code for those on the ground. Nothing wrong with that.. but it is.. archaic.

But as I said, modern thinking, and using teamwork, tactics, and strategy largely mitigates these dueling pilots, much like it made the Samurai extinct.

There's three things needed to be successful in PS2, or any multiplayer game:

What you know.
What you have.
Who you know.

What you know is your personal skill and knowledge. Skyknights tend to think they have alot of this. And they'd be right, they are knowledgeable and well practiced in the air. Many have played the game for some time and know much about that. I will dispute this fact. I don't even need to look at someone's stats.. I'll take them at their word.

What you have is the equipment unlocked and the character using in general. Many of us have been playing for years and have very well developed characters. We're all on equal footing here except for the brand new player.

Who you know is the most overlooked. Who you know is the team you play with. This includes friends, squads, platoons, outfits, alliances, and even your server's faction in general to some degree. Basically your own little network. This is where things get interesting.

You see you need all three. You could be the best pilot or machine gunner in PS2. You could literally be god's gift to the game. But if you lack the people to support you. You aren't getting very far in the grand scheme of things. Now if all you're doing is dueling. Well then you have a very simple version of the game to play. A network isn't needed.. but you do have a small impact.

But if your intent is to make a difference. You are going to largely lose compared to someone who has all three aspects. You can destroy gals or sunderers. But those are easily replaced by a coordinated group of 48 or even 12 in many cases. Everyone's impact is multiplied in the team. So even a new player with a small amount of unlocks is going to have more of an impact with a team than a dueling ace ESF pilot.

This isn't to say that dueling is wrong. This is to say there are going to be VERY different players playing. When I'm running with my squad and I see an aircraft twirling around with another. I don't have time to determine if they are dueling and leave them be. That enemy aircraft may turn into 12, I don't know who's grouped and who isn't. So I take them down.

My buddy who flies Galaxies really well, won't give two craps about dueling ESFs and will likely skywhale both as he comes in to drop off his transports. We we swat aside any ESF or whatever that gets in the way. And use any tool Daybreak has given us as I said all is fair in love and war.

So no one should tell me that I am wrong. I have a goal, I have a group to work with. And we're going to perform that, honor or not. We expect the same in return. I don't need some stranger's approval, my methods are well liked by my allies and team alike. They work, they're effective, and well they're fun for us.

Oh boy! The stat padding try hard wants to bring up statistics that are completely unrelated to the topic at hand, because he doesn't have an argument on the merits of honor, because no such merits exist.

Fine, I'll bite. Let's talk about our stats. Shall we?

So, Dasanfall has an interesting take on the game statistics, and from the outset its plainly obvious that these statistics are interpreted to justify the kind try-hard elitist behavior exhibited by Mr. Honorable over there, who has only participated in 1,969 battles since 2013. Only 346 of those were actual facility captures. Why? Because, he spends all his time farming kills in a Reaver, and being "honorable." The one thing he's lacking most is the aspect of being an effective player who contributes to his faction's success.

Maybe if the NC had fewer "honorable" elitist idiots TKing each other in search of the almighty KDR like Jawarisin, maybe they'd have a higher alert win rate on Emerald (where Jawarisin plays).

My advice to you is to leave the statistics at home. You're *not* actually as good at this game as you think. Keep your VS toon out of my squad, please. I want a unit, not warriors. You don't lay down enough fire to support a squad, and you only engage when you are most guaranteed a kill (which isn't really honorable, is it?)

I can dumb down the game and play "no throw" with people if needed. But it's such a smaller and more stunted game to play that way.

Well, I think you have to look at it within different forms of gameplay.

In the Hardcore Organized game and Server Smash meta, ESF have a role, but it is narrow. And it is not what most Skyknights are doing (unless they are specifically taking out the enemy Air performing their narrow meta).

In the Casual Organized and Casual Unorganized game, ESFs can have other roles, but again it generally is not what most Skyknights are doing. (NOTE: most the hatred of Air is coming from this group)

Not all battles in PS2 are Hardcore Organized, Server Smash, Casual Organized, or Casual Unorganized. And so the role an ESF can play and their impact will vary relative to the type of battle it is.

I am not a fan of either the Hardcore Organized game meta or Server Smash meta (I feel it uses too many shortcuts [Pinpoint-Rapid-Infantry-Movement tools], infinite Medic revive, etc.] and not enough mixed unit or ground terrain between maps or more vulnerable play... which I feel stunts the potential meta)(I appreciate them both existing, but I think the meta underserves their potential for depth and breadth, and underserves pan-Faction play), but I recognize that these groups have the tools, plans, networks, and people to potentially carry out individual specific objectives in the game often the most effectively (if they have enough in numbers needed). I just don't enjoy the gameplay, so I don't participate in that. But if people love it, and that's what they want, more power to them at this point.

Instead, I tend to play the (less directly impactful) Lemmings game of helping set up my Faction to succeed. This often involves moving in Sunderers into key strategic advance positions so that my Faction can mobilize into areas or anchor pushes onto enemy space. If a Hardcore Group comes along while I'm setting up, they'll often use my Sunderer as a fallboack or flanking/rear position after their insertion and setup in the base. I also set up Fallback Sunderers (in case an existing advance Sunderer is removed) or Sunderers in positions at other facings to provide flanking, rear, and alternate insertion attacks.

My Lemmings game also includes helping break up zergs and sieges on ally bases. Often done by placement of a Sunderer on a good rear/flank line-of-sight position to spawn at and clear off Air, then Armor, then ground from a facing of the base and thereby provide a route for the besieged to push out. Sometimes I will use an ESF to do this (especially on NC who lack extreme range AV), especially if the attackers are few or if they are reliant on key support that can be knocked out with an ESF.

Other areas a solo ESF can be a real factor in Faction Objectives:
* fly from base to base and knock out ally Vehicle Terminals (to keep enemies unable to use them to spawn Sundys to anchor their pushes)
* equip Scout Radar radar and park under a bio lab (in engagement that are not already easily won)
* fly to an enemy base, get out, hack a Vehicle Terminal, and place a Sundy in a key position (and other sky Taxi uses)
* clear a bio lab platform of defenders for those trying to setup and make a push into it
* a2g in small battles
* clear off a2g enemy ESFs in a spawncamping zerg. Then clear armor off one facing (Especially useful for NC, because they have no extreme range to clear off armor from rear ground positions at extreme range), then disrupt infantry.
* q-spot key enemy positions or advance flank or rear pushes. Voice/text aerial recon to see enemy positions or movement and relate them to allies.
* disruption
* fast and pinpoint knock out of weak-link key support or enemy counter nests

Ronin would probably be a better comparison for them. Or Duelists.

I think it's the choice of gameplay that makes these pilots less meaningful to the game's broader objectives.

I actually think it was gun powder ("the great equalizer") that doomed Samurai (and Knights).

I largely agree, but it really depends on your objective as a player.

If they ignore the objectives of others and the formal objectives of the game, and instead define and choose their own objective, then it shakes up what is important in terms of satisfying that rogue objective(2). It can become very relative.

I think it's quite common for a sizeable demo of players in this game to chase their own rogue objectives. At at those times, it becomes a very mixed bag in terms of what is needed to be successful.

I agree within the context of the core, formal Objectives of the game.

And we are not playing in a segregated game, that divides players from each other on some criteria (skill, playtype preference, etc.), so they have limited recourse in dealing with you (or others like you) for how you play. Though one is to complain about it or critique it (lobby against it) on these forums.

You're absolutely right here.

When I stated that some might complain or even critique how I play.. they forget that they are playing with others who have vastly different playstyles, goals, and agendas.

For example.. if you've followed anything I've said in the last two years you might have noticed that I don't have very high opinions of lone wolf playstyles. At no point in time have I ever tried to tell them they are wrong. Only that they well.. should understand it isn't a single player game. IMO the squad is the epitome of what PS2 is, and how that squad interacts with others, both enemy and friendly.

I don't expect everyone should play that way. Hell even I don't play with a squad all the time. Sometimes I like to dink around in what I would otherwise call a 'useless' vehicle. Even though I think MBT's are largely useless.. I have a certed out Vanguard and Prowler for those off times.

But you have skyknights trying to push their playstyles on others. And that just makes no sense.. additionally its quite useless as air.. sorry to say, isn't the most flattered playstyle in PS2 (which I agree, for the wrong reasons).

It doesn't bother me that pilots like to duel. Some on the PTS. Some on empty parts of the continents. I don't care. I really don't. Do what you will. But don't complain if I see your cert pinata and take a shot at it with dishonorable tactics simply because you're either bored or drifted into what I consider my space.

Because see PS2 as PVP. Meaning all is fair. I will gank you. To me its no different than a high level druid in WoW who shapshifts at a high altitude to hit an opposing player with instant cast spells trying to kill them.. before they fall and splat on the ground themselves. Why do they kill themselves to kill another player? Because they can. Its PVP. I'll do the same thing in PS2. If you're an enemy.. I will fly or run into you. Even if it means my own death.

Its PVP. I don't give a damn about my stats. If you don't want your stats ruined by my antics.. we'll not much you can do there. Its just going to happen. Its life, its not fair.

I'm on board with most of that.

I still don't agree with the notion that PS2 isn't a single player game. I see PS2 (like many MMOs), as a Single Player, Duo Player, Small Group, Large Group, Super Large Group, and/or Outfit player game. I see all these group coexisting, and I think that demo mashup works best for the game.

I don't like the MBT role (or rather lack of one) in the PS2 Hardcore Organized meta. But that's just an extension of my dislike of that meta (again, not a dislike of Hardcore Organized play, but of the current/ongoing meta for it).

At this point, I feel players can try to enjoy PS2 for whatever they can get personally out of it. I think SOE/DBG is pretty terrible at building out a worthwhile structured end game for PS2 (and a narrow demo but solid one for their other games). PS2 is more of a unique sandbox for players to mess around in. Even many of the Hardcore Organized players have lost interest in the PS2 end game.

You might notice I've played all factions o.o You might also realise that the only diference between you and me is I don't need to stay for capture exp because I've got better ways to get it. Once a fight is won, I'm out. You might also realise, looking at my stats that I took quite a long break where I didn't play.

Then again, there's a reason why I got good stats and you don't. I'm doing work, you're not. And for all your big-mouth. For every kill you get per minute, i get 5-6. So even if my k/d is twice yours; I'm killing people five to six time faster than you.

To say it simply, you're a good meat shield on the batlefield, and that's your role. So far seems like you've been great at it. Keep it up.

I don't get why I'm quoted here. But in case this was addressed to me. I'm not looking at your stats, but unless you've got 35%+ accuracy with 40%+ HSR, your aim is just as bad on the ground. The only difference is the only ones aren't you aren't all clones of JHFO.

It's not like aiming is an innate skill. If you bothered to learn, you'd learn and you'd improve.

Anyways, still not so sure why I was quoted. But best of luck

I don't really take anything. I'm more the destroy kinda guy. But feel free to hack turrets all you want. You're super "useful"

Ground slewing a noncombatant pilot or shooting a noncombatant while they are falling in the air might have equal honor exp points.
What if pilots had a load out of a parachute, med-kit, and a pistol?
Well that would take away from the PlanetSide flying and fighting uniqueness. But surely would prove what type of player you want to be.
I like the chaos we have now.
I also like to let someone go when I know they were teamed up on and wave a white flag. But I never expect that in return.

Just as a fair warning, if you bail from an ESF, I can and will pancake/clothesline you in my Valkyrie. Even if you equip safe fall.

I don't catch people in mid-air, because I know that an annoying number of ESF pilots ride as LAs, because they're using fire suppresion and don't need to be engineer. This lets them carry C4 so that, while yelling about being Honorbrus, they really also want an opportunity to C4 sundies or other aircraft. I don't mind this, what I mind is when I see one of them using yell chat saying "DUDE WE'RE FIGHTING HERE BUZZ OFF VALK" and then watch them C4 a sundy.

Come to think of it, I don't actually trust any ESF pilots. This is explanatory to me.. Maybe I should start running hover airframe and fire suppression/composite armor and start trying to do pop-up rams on dueling ESFs just for giggles.

Yes, I think I'll start doing that. Maybe I'll make a guide on how to do that just to heckle Skynights.

TY, and your sig, I laughed heartily. Excellent example of how you might express your "game within a game, etc. " If you have flown TR or VS esf on Connery, then you've met Kamikaze Scythe....rofl. And obviously he enjoys how he plays...lol. I fly as light assault, so I wouldn't trust me either..and I certainly don't trust those pilots that feel they can run engineer....oh golly no. If you are playing NC, you have far fewer to trust because for some reason, NC is a little blue colorblind.

I, and many others, love the flight model. For me, it wasn't long till it made sense....but being casual about it, just like a newer BR 5 engineer running out of base spawn room, into face of BR100+ heavy that's waiting round corner, same general results, and we've all been there. Just a generalization, but also in esf, that it's NOT all about just aiming, or maneuvers, or coreect loadout for any of a lot of situations, situational awareness, positioning, ammo management, support, brushido, pre-plan of attack. pre-knowledge of forces you will face or specific forces to engage w/loadout, etc.......

The biggest difference between ground and air, for me, is that most often you have a "front", along one or more fights. It really is hard to "hover" over a fight, contrary to what you often hear "OMG, they just ran from our lockons, and we hit em, but they didn't die. They'll probly be back", sitting still, especially w/in 280m of NC phoenix, is death. The sound of AP rounds ripping the air around you, could be anywhere w/in 800m. Try and take just one skyguard w/ur esf, or one burster max, one manned AA turret.... not sure it can be done in what tank or max or turret would consider fair fight. On Connery, when a particular Vanu air squad is at strength, you only have as long to fly as till they see you, just way it is at times, doesn't matter how good you are.

If there's really a problem in this game, is that it's just fun...whether harrasser or esf, capturing points or continents, headshots or splash, formal playtoon and command or you and new friend, jsut laughing and having fun being dicks. Now we not only have CONstruction but also DEstruction, with some folks having not much interest in the other. LMG or other directives, and also "u will have to pry my Orion out of my cold dead fingers...and on. Coolest war sandbox I've ever seen, and not many people would take the time to post or read here unless they kinda felt the same at some level, so ty.

Please do, it'll make a hilarious joke.

Also, who ever cared about flying cert piniatas.

I main the airhammer now, because so many pilots bail, I figure to hunt them down and shotgun them down with a subpar A2A nosegun to really put the spikes under their nails.

I was being facetious(Or was I?)


To Be Honest, you haven't really flown Valkyrie until you wipe an entire squad of maxes off a hillside in a single pass - and their little engineers too! And I care about Valk, because I'm pretty good at it, and more importantly, I have fun flying it in a way that contributes to my team.

This is opposed to say, having 'fun' by obsessing over my stats and arguing relentlessly with people on internet forums and trashing anyone who isn't my clone who doesn't agree with my viewpoint that the only thing that matters is how well one solo plays a team game. "Farming" is not team play. Its just selfish joy-killing. I mean, if thats fun for you, by all means, go right ahead. Just don't have any illusions about whether or not you could be more effective in farming for your team as a ground pounder than as a lol-podder.

Your KDR only tells us so much about your contribution to the team. But why so salty, Dudebroski? They're buffing your noseguns, be happy!

Also I feel that they should change the "Rumble Seat Kills" portion of the Valkyrie directive to be "Roadkills". Any thoughts?

Roadkills been suggested to be added to aircrafts before. Would be funny if anything - don't see anything bad in doing it.