TTK is too short, make it longer SOE

Useless double post, sry for that

In 2 to 5 secs TTK game? No, I don't think so. We shouldn't talk 1vs1 in these cases, tbh. That's the whole point. Your scenario is unlikely in team vs team

Happens to me reaaaaaaally often in team vs team scenarios, I usually have enough time to get to cover, even when 2 guys get the jump on me at once.

I do think the TTK span is to broad over all.

I do not think SOE would be well received if they just dropped damage across weapons.

I would like to see more effective armor options/choices you can cert up. pick your poison so to speak. Personal defensive systems though limited are already in place, expand on them and it could help a bit and create variety among classes.

This HA player uses Dense Core NW plating and it reduces LMG damage taken while this other player uses Fiber weave Nanite plates on his LA and it reduces shot gun damage. In both cases neither armor brings effective resists to any other weapon. These are stacked onto your current armor so yes you already have some base armor and these plates specialize your role.

Oh please. Compare apples to apples. It took me a whole 1 minute of watching that video to dismiss it. The game has no bullet drop and no bullet speed. If your crosshairs are on target when you click RMB, it's a hit. ****, if there was a Sniper Rifle in PS2 that didn't have bullet drop and infinitely fast bullet speed, I'd buy it in a heartbeat even if it did 1/3 the damage and didn't benefit from headshot multipliers. It would be a massacre.

Longer TTK benefits superior numbers. As someone has already said, if you came around a corner behind 3 enemies in a low TTK game, you'd get a kill or maybe all 3 depending on the skill gap. In a high TTK game, you'd get owned by the concentrated fire of those 3 enemies. Now it doesn't matter if it's a true 1 vs 3, or 3 vs. 6, or 1 squad vs. 3 squads, or 1 platoon vs. 3 platoons, the truth remains that high TTK places HUGE emphasis on simply bringing more bodies to a fight to win.

Superior numbers still rules in low TTK, but the disadvantaged team has a chance to still have FUN. Make the enemies pay dearly to win their base and although it's still a loss of territory, it's a moral victory. The same cannot be said for long TTK games. The only way a disadvantaged force can hold ground against superior numbers is via a choke point, and there are not alot of those in PS2. And to be frank, if SOE were to introduce choke points in every base to justify high TTK's, it would just become an overused gimmick.

One last point: Aiming and movement while exchanging gunfire is not the sum total of "skill". Situational awareness is as much skill as putting a bullet in a pixel. Coordinating your team to cover your back is also skill. Using the right tools at the right time is also skill.

If your definition of skill is twitch aiming, then go and play bubble shooter and compare high scores.

The point was probably less the sniper play, and more of the global strategic gameplay in T:A, a looooong TTK, yet still very tactical game (not even talking about previous incarnations of Tribes here .... )

1) Why do I read here "I want to be able to mow down everyone singlehandedly"?
2) flanking a group of 3 in a huge field, huge number of people game is nothing difficult, and nothing super tactical. Yet apparently this easy move should reward people with an instant win. I hope the tactics everyone seems to be so proud of is more than simply getting the jump on others....

PS1, a horribly long TTK game, seems to have proven otherwise, I've seens tons of little groups fending of far superior numbers, thing I see far less in PS2 where 90% of the tactic is only to be able to bring more people on point

We should have both skills required

Not every fight is a platoon vs platoon 50vs50 fight, keep that in mind, and flanking a group of 3 people when they're defending a SCU (for example) can turn a battle's outcome anyway.

Both are required right now

How is T:A 2 shot sniper so much LOOOONGER than PS2? I had to slog thru the TR default 2 hit kill sniper rifle until I had enough certs to unlock a proper bolt action. And, via hearsay from someone in this thread, TTK in T:A was higher becuase everything did explosive damage to be able to compensate for the very fast movement, which in turn justifies a high TTK.

I intentionally elaborated that the same applies in a 3 vs 6, or squad vs 3 squads, or platoon vs 3 platoons. The point is superior numbers bring more firepower that gets focused on inferior numbers for an easy win. You have to worry less about positioning, about watching your back and having pre-emptive warning of incoming danger, or crossing open spaces since you can just soak up the damage that would otherwise kill you in a low TTK game. And who's talking about open field combat? That is hardly the sum total of what a player experiences in PS2. In fact, if you get flanked and killed in CQC while in open field combat, you have already failed at "skill" long before you got shot.

Yes and they accomplished this via chokepoints. When the game world HAS to be designed in such a way to give inferior numbers a fighting chance, it becomes a gimmick.

Shooting skill is STILL a large part of the game. Especially at medium to long ranges. Short TTK's just allow the OTHER parts of the "skill" equation to shine in the other situations.

but they do exist, you cannot dismiss these case making the whole "flanking, tactics, etc.... " more a case of total random than forethough, and anyway in a 10 or 5 men squad engagement, it's still very easy. PS2 is super open world.

Importance of the outcome doesn't make it more difficult to realise. It's still easy in 80% of the situations.

Oh, I mostly agree, I don't advocate for a huge change at all
Just,
1)we're reaching the point where the power weapons released begin to loosen the aiming skill requirement, and
2) I see far too much people in these kind of threads acting like their superior tactical knowledge make them soooooo superior to the bunnyhoper pleb who dares talk about brainless thing like "aim" or "movement".
When what I witnessed in both types of games don't show me an ounce of difference between both populations.

Mind you, I come from an ultra-realistic, simulation-like background, being a fan of Falcon4 online back in late 90's, and the ultimate Operation Flashpoint fan since the release of their demo. I've seen plenty, plenty of the OSK, realistic TTK moments, and though there were some epic ones, on average, the level is none different than twitch games I've played later. As I said, I've seen live some incredible moments in twitch games competition (been following the ET:QW comp scene for a while, for example) which easily topped the tactical involvement I saw in ArmA.
Reading amrchair generals know-it-all about what makes a game tactical itches me to go write an answer. Perhaps a pueril reaction, but meh...

No. Right now ps2 has the highest TTK I've ever seen in a multiplayer fps, and I like that because it makes headshots much more useful than in a Cod style game, and it also makes death less frustrating: you don't die so much from a few lucky shots. Said that, I won't be for a further increase in TTK because in my opinion it would make the game much less tactical (won't be able to kill enemies because they didn t paid attention to their surroundings), will create severe imbalance problems with OHK weaponry (and if you suggest to remove one headshot kill for bolt actions I will consider you an idiot) and will also cause some realism issues( having a person surviving a direct rocket launcher hit is not realistic and also ridiculous). You can't compare ps2 to tribes ascend: played it, and it's a game in which juggernauts(basically heavy assaults) have a 30 round explosive, one hit kill mortar, and snipers don't get nor decent damage nor headshot bonuses, and bullets are crap because they are so slow and so lacking in damage that only explosive weaponry standa a chance

Yes, it's easy because 80% of the people who play this game have zero situational awareness (or they're blind directly)

1) Well, but that's a problem of those specific weapons, I don't see how translating that in increasing TTKs across the board could be good, increasing the TTK of LMGs, Assault Rifles, Carbines, Pistols, SMGs seems like a terrible idea.

2) Thing is, right now both that "superior tactical knowledge" (which really is being aware of your surroundings and not being a mindless zergling, nothing else) and aiming and dodging are important, and that's good.

at mid range TTK will increase naturally because you have to AIM and hit that target!
a solution that could be found in weapon design EX: a weapon designed around long range combat will kill faster then a SMG at range and vise versa if it was CQC.

Shouldn't that be ADD..ADD..ADD

Okay, firstly, sorry for bringing back this old, bad, dead, dusty, trash thread, but I've been away and I don't like it when I have 34 alerts after a vacation.

Secondly, the squad TTK should = the ttk of each player in the squad combined.
Sounds to me like you just want to make defending even harder/ want to be able to cap a tech plant in your 3 man squad.
how about no.

Also, if you think planetside requires teamwork you're flat out wrong.
grab a shotgun, max jump jets, go to crossroads watchtower and wait.

Bam, 200 free certs without even trying.

^I say this w/o owning a shotty on my main BTW, I do have the first gen PAS on my BR30 or something VS alt.

And what you said in the beginning, about the battlefield becoming more and more deadly? there's a solution: be deadly.

that is all, please nobody else post in this stupid thread, ty.

Minimum TTK in PS2 is less than 0.5 seconds, that's 500 milliseconds. Lets assume that the average ping or round trip to the server of the packets being sent to and from the client is about 50 - 200 ms. That would mean that on average, the minimum TTK is 5x the time (100ms avg round trip) from the client to the server. Furthermore, when player reaction is considered, i.e. the time it takes for the information being sent to and from the server to be translated into sound or graphics on the players client is likely a few milliseconds or less. So, the minimum TTK is barely enough time for the attack being done to a players character to register in some way on their client.

And you say that a TTK of 500ms or less is too long?

I know that many of you don't like being confused with the facts. You want to spout hyperbole and impugn the poster and talk about player "skill" being the reason the minimum TTK seems too short all of which are laughable in the face of the facts I have just related to you. One of you even tried to make the minimum TTK of a group some multiple of each group members minimum TTK which is equally spurious.

The fact is that the minimum TTK of any squad or platoon is the minimum TTK of their support members, i.e. medics and engineers, often the most vulnerable. When the engineers and medics are all down, its over. So, if all of the medics and engineers die in the minimum TTK, then that's how long the group stays up.

For example, during outfit training, I taught a trainee squad an important lesson with two C-4 charges. I was playing a medic, I dropped one charge at the top of a flight of stairs. They spotted it and destroyed it. As soon as they did, I dropped another and boom they were all dead, all 4 of them and I didn't take any damage at all.

THERE WAS NO SKILL INVOLVED IN THEIR SURVIVAL OR MY VICTORY, IT WAS SIMPLY A WELL PLAYED GIMMICK OR TRICK ON MY PART.

With a minimum TTK of 400-500 ms, there is no skill, no positioning, preparation, tactics or teamwork. On a crowded battlefield with a minimum TTK so low, the only skill involved is simply being better at using some AE spam gimmick or just getting the jump on the other player. The next time you catch someone off guard, or get off a lucky grenade, don't pat yourself on the back too much because you are next.

Thus a question for you SOE devs:

What kind of game do you want PS2 to be?

A game of luck and gimmicks where a players fate is the result of random chance or a game where players can to some extent, work together to control their own fate through skill and teamwork?

False. Unless the enemy can shoot you through your cover (you did take cover, right?), or kill everyone by exploding your TS server (you do have voice comms, right?), positioning and preparation are not affected by low TTK in the slightest. Superior positioning comes BEFORE shots are fired. Not during a fight.
Preparation? Also before a fight. Not during it. You mistake common twitch skills for actual tactics.

Also, a pro tip - don't headbutt tanks.

@Blackweb: Specially because most people land all the shots with perfect accuracy lol (avg accuracy for fullauto is 20-25% depending on the weapon), if it was all luck everyone should have a K/D of around 0.9x (because of TKs/suicides), since in the long run luck is neutral, that's not the case.

In lots of fps TTK is a lot lower than .5 seconds, in COD MW3 some guns like PP90M1 killed in .1 sec more or less. Plus 0.5 is low enough to give the upper hand to a player who sneaks behind an enemy, and it s high enough to give you some time to react. In fact all those TTK numbers are theorical, because it's highly unlikely to fire a full auto weapon without bursting and having all the rounds land on the target. That's especially true in this game because of the COF mechanics, so you don't have pinpoint accuracy while ADSing with most weapons, while in COD and tons of FPS if you aim your bullets will hit where the crosshair is pointed, and thus the only factor reducing your accuracy is recoil. Then in planetside 2 skill is also tactical choices and good placement, often BEFORE a fight. Said that, keep in mind that is only my opinion, and you are free to have a different one: so please calm down and avoid to insult each other