[Suggestion] Tone down the AI damage of Hornet missiles

There is a pretty big balance problem right now with Hornet missiles (The ESF anti vehicle guided missiles) against infantry.

For instance if you are a dual burster arm AA MAX-suit with fully certed flak-armor you can still get oneshotted if the Hornet hits you directly, effectively making the AA role completely useless. As a comparison the AA MAX has to shoot at the ESF for about 10+ seconds to bring it down even using pretty much point blank range damage.

The AV damage (against vehicles) seems pretty balanced, they fill a role, but the insane AI damage needs to be toned down.

I've had a few friends who were new to the game quit in disgust as they tried to pull a MAX suit and only have it oneshotted from one enemy ESF at 200+ range before they could even hear it. The missiles have next to no sound to them, making it extremely hard to heard as they zoom in straight for your supple fragile body.

Suggestion would be to EITHER lower the damage against infantry by half (yes half) to remove 1-shotting ability of a MAX, or make the missiles overall slower (25% maybe)/more audible/loud sounding (like Raven maybe) to give some kind of heads up at least.

Wat?

Also, you are talking about reducing all AI damage, but every example you explain talks about MAX suits only... and if you are standing still in a MAX suit as a A2G ESF strafes you on his pass...... but even then....

The current resistance table doesn't say what kind of damage model a Hornet has so I can't do any calculations for them. However, they count as an anti-Vehicle weapon.

And the MAX can count as a Vehicle.

yep, this right here is the fundamental problem of people wanting maxes buffed vs. ESF's. If they're vehicles, they deserve to die to rocketpods and hornets, and they don't deserve the ability to camp in spawnrooms. If they're infantry, then they deserve to die to AI noseguns and Zephrs (and rocketpods too).

I'm fine with the damage of Hornets against infantry MAXes. Even though they're AT weapons, what sort of weak-rear AT weapons designed to penetrate thick tank armor wouldn't be able to kill MAXes or thin-skinned infantry? Sort of like AP cannons versus infantry. They absolutely should kill, because what can penetrate MBT armor can probably penetrate whatever's on a MAX.

I mean it's not like Hornets even have much splash damage or radius or something. They essentially require direct hits, making them very inefficient against infantry.

Just to note, they can't actually oneshot a max. You need two missiles to hit to kill the max. It's still possible, but takes a fair amount of skill.

So... when being struck in the face by an aircraft-mounted missile system, you want to survive?



What is your face made of?

Nanites.

If you want to talk about "realistic" weapons:
Why is it okay for light aircrafts like ESF to survive rockets or FLAK?
Why is it okay for a tank/heavy aircraft to survive several rockets without any problem?

He doesnt demand something "realistic" but some balancing that is necessary in his opinion.

Nanites?
In all seriousness hornets are fine as they are, to kill a MAX with them requires a large amount of skill and precision, it also requires the MAX to stand completely still. It puts the pilot at considerable risk as he/she has to keep the nose pointed directly at the MAX for the entire duration of the missiles's flight time. The pilot either has to be hovering or flying directly towards the MAX and the ground, both are the 2 situations you really do not want to be in as a pilot.

Its hard to pick hornets over rocketpods as it is, hornet is the last thing I would nerf.

And I do use hornets as a finisher if I don't get all my banshee hits in on a max, but if hornets were any weaker I would switch to pods.

And a no to lowering the velocity..
on a decline, some tanks can achieve 80 kph.
Sure, the hornet would still fly faster, but come on, it is supposed to be a anti-tank missile. It should go way faster than a tank.
LOLPODS have already twice the velocity , an aircraft can fly way faster than them..

You know what would be cool (IMO of course):
drop LOLPOD velocity to 125m/s too..
but make all (ESF? aircraft?) rockets inherit the aircraft's velocity. *
Or half the aircrafts velocity if 100% inheritance is too powerfull; okidoki.

*small issue with "all aircraft": besides ESF, other rockets are on turrets, like on the valk.
Of course, vector-wise inheritance means inheriting movement in the direction the aircraft travels, not where the turret is pointing. A liberator's rockets shooting backwards could suddenly fly quite slowly, valk missile gunning would become even harder..



Bombs could be a fun addition to the game... but the hornet missiles are clearly missiles.

As someone who has played both sides of this (but more on the MAX side), you should almost never die to hornets. When you see an ESF with its nose pointed right at you, as it has to be to hit with those hornets, you strafe a bit. If the first missile hits, just charge away. If you're not running charge, well, you made a choice to limit your survivability.

mmm dat heat round

In a game where the damage system is doesn't try to resemble real life it makes perfect sense. This game already have all kinds of hidden armor and damage types. Making infantry survive these missiles isn't out of the order so to speak.

It could even be that the shield system can divert impulse of death causing explosives/projectile but can be overwhelmed easily by rapid fire weapons. Which could explain why a machine gun still mows down infantry but a vehicle mounted missile intended to hit vehicles might suck against infantry.

I still wouldn't change it, but its an interesting idea to think of what we can make these nanites do.

So...
When being struck in the face by a massive ball of plasma, you want to survive?

What ALLOYS are you made of?

P.S. That's what plasma does to you IF IT HITS A WALL 5 meters away from.

Yeah, just strafe sideways while unloading flak in their face to blind the crap outta them.

They'll miss the direct hits, you'll take minor splash, and they'll likely end up dead for sitting in dual flak for long enough to guide hornets in.

The max is clearly stuck somewhere between being infantry, and being a vehicle. And they are infantry farming machines with the ability to be rez'd.

Gasolene, metal and bacon?

Their RoF is so bad, and velocity, that standard nosegun > Hornets for killing infantry.

It's not a problem in any sense of the word.

Might as well make direct tank AP rounds not kill when hitting infantry direct in the face.

Sure we could for some absurd idea of "balance" but it would be beyond ridiculous, and it still isn't really efficient.