[Suggestion] this game would be objectively more fun for a majority players if A2G ESF's were toned down.

infantry are by FAR the biggest infantry farmers, so let's not play coy. you just don't think of it as farming because you can't see the circle-jerk when you're so focused on the cookie.

and while we're here, let's all admit that "being farmed" is something that most players learn to avoid very quickly. some never learn though, and we call them bads. and they get farmed whether they are air, ground, or foot.

Nobody minds losing a gunfight to another infantry player. You just got beat, you can respect that. Because you know you have the same exact chance to kill him, as he had killing you. There's no unfair artificial mechanic putting you at an extreme disadvantage competitively.

Because any combat vehicle should have a significant advantage against a vulnerable infantry unit? By now you should have realised that this isn't a game where counter strike, WoT and war thunder happens to be fighting in the same map. This is PS2.

Cool, so you are radar engineer!
How did you get into that, via Physics or EE>RF engineering?

If it's like New Zealand, it's either through Engineering Science or through 4th year electives in Mechanical Engineering.

make another continent for pilots only

Every time I play, I see extreme danger for aircraft.

You need to get used to the combined arms aspect, or quit. I suggest the former, but then, I also don't know your level of maturity (though it is indicated by your desire to censor your tormentor).

Get a few decades of playing under your belt; you may appreciate Challenge over Scripted-Win by then.

No. The first thing a fighter pilot learns is ground strike.

Now, if AA does indeed rule the battle zone, then yes, the aircraft have a challenge.

To suggest that there is not enough AA in PS2 is preposterous. *However*, to say it isn't used well isn't.

What is your point?

yea with all the AA this game has now the ESFs are not a big threat as people want it to, unless your 2 lazy to care enough to have AA around...

1) Differentiation between "in game AA balance" and "irl AA balance", with a view that irl, AA can, and historically has been rather effective, in terms of killing aircraft. Not as a "deterrent".
in game AA should be designed to kill, not to deter.
The skyguard for example, should win vs the liberator; tankbuster or dalton. Despite the liberator being more nanites, more crew, because the skyguard is (should be) a liberator-counter. The liberator is not a skyguard hunter; it is an A2G platform. Whether that ground is a vehicle or infantry can depends on the loadout. In addition, the liberator can be rather effective vs other air too, yes high skill etc, but still.

2): Skyguard are limited in terms of "adapting tactics", response to post about "adapt tactics if you're getting farmed". With AA being underpowered, and tactics being limited, that isn't much of an option.

3) Long range AA should be effective vs things like liberators and galaxies, more so than vs ESF's.
The point is that a 747 wouldn't enjoy a SM3 missile intercepting it, and unlike an F22, can't try to dodge it.
In planetside 2, the big aircraft are very, very tanky against their supposed counters; both AA and ESF weaponry. Conversely, for such a tanky aircraft, they are very manoevrable; both in top speed, acceleration, pitch and roll. Last I looked a B2 did not fly mach 2. The difference in manoevrability can seem low, thanks to liberators being able to fly "belly up" to engage higher-flying ESF's.
Long range AA should be more effective vs liberators and galaxy's if we want AA to have a similarity to real life;
meaning that ESF's would be the most survivable to AA, by virtue of low, speedy approach, or high fast approach & dive down.
I would also like different max flight ceilings for different aircraft; denying galaxy's to sit outside of lock-on reach.
Only ESF's would be able to fly so high.

I think even if they only reduced galaxy/lib flight ceiling to what 500m and left ESFs with a higher flight ceiling it would be a good step for the game. they fly in 3 Dimensions so the bombers and transports should be vulnerable to attacks from above when they are at their max altitude.

I'd love if they fixed it so aircraft wouldn't be able to pull of moves that would stall real aircraft but libs/gals vulnerable to above attacks by ESFs while at their flight ceiling would be a nice consolation prize IMHO.

Word salad, again. Impossible to dicipher point.

Look. If you're getting beaten by aircraft to the extent that you think its a problem, you and your team are doing something wrong.

Stop blaming the enemy for capitalizing on your mistakes. Look inward and figure out how to beat your opponent. All the tools are in place, and you even have a bunch of teammates that can help too.

Attempt numero tres, even fewer characters this time:

1) In game, balance has precedence over the real-life effectiveness of AA vs aircraft.
This means, AA should be more powerful than aircraft. (when facing each other). After all, aircraft in-game have other functions than attacking AA.

2) AA is not very "tactical" at the moment. "figure out how to beat your opponent etc", sorry, no, the game has a balance issue in terms of air vs AA.

3) Long range AA should be more effective against aircraft like galaxies and liberators than vs ESF. (Short ranged AA should be a harsher counter to ESF's; if able to hit)
ESF should be buffed vs other aircraft.

Sure, if you want AA to work like real life, then I also want A2G to work like real life as well (I.e a single rocket should annihilate a tank, a single bullet from ESF nosegun should rip a soldier apart, and a tankbuster strafing run should decimate a whole armoured convoy, and air versus a tank zerg should be like the Highway of Death in Iraq). Seems fair right?

MBTs, non-Skygaurd Lightnings, Harassers, Valkyries, Flashes, Gals, and non-Burster Inafntry would all rather play without ESFs.

Infantry would rather play without any Vehicles except Gals and Sunderers and without Maxs.

If you just removed the units that most players didn't like, we'd be down to Infantry, Gals, and Sunderers.

Making ESFs A2A would make them unplayable. ALL Vehicle types need to be able to farm Infantry, or they just can't clear enough XP. Exception being Sunderers, Gals, and Valks, because they are troop transport oriented.

If you want to make AA less boring, then make the default Rocket Launcher for every HA a combo A2A Lockon + Dumbfire Rocket Launcher. It should have been this way at launch. That way HA's can use it as Dumbfire and easily switch to it if they want AA, and not be stuck with a Loadout they can only use some.

If you want ESFs to be more affected by AA, then you have to INCREASE ESF vulnerability and deaths to AA and DECREASE ESF vulnerability and deaths to other sources. Currently 40.96% of all ESF deaths are from Accidental Collisions, with an additionaly 6.29% from Other Collisions. All Air is plagued by Collisions. Those are deaths that should be reduced, and instead given as kills to a buffed AA.
source: http://ps2oraclestats.com/monthly-vehicle-deaths/ (select ESF)

You say you don't care that Top ESF/Lib Pilots farm ESFs, but you are missing the point that those kills are pushing average ESF players to farm Ground targets (MBTs and non-Max Infantry mostly). If SOE implemented RADAR that caused all Air to show up on all enemy Faction maps (including Mini-Map) when they ventured more than 1 space inside that enemy Faction's territory, it would solve 4 problems:
1) it would cut down on Air farming Ground inside enemy borders (where it doesn't help their faction)
2) it would cut down on Air farming Air inside enemy borders (where it doesn't help their faction, this would also lead to more ESFs doing A2A)
3) it would push ESFs to operate on battlefronts more
4) it would open the way for removal of redeployside, because it would deter Air from just farming Ground Vehicles driving from a far base to the frontline within their territory (since the entire faction could see them and chase them out of their Air Space or at least know when they're about so they can get under cover)

Hornets are good at killing MBTs and Infantry. They can also kill non-Skyguard Lightnings, but there's the risk of engaging a Lightning because it might be a Skyguard. Hornets can damage other Vehicle targets, but they are not consistent killers. Also, ESFs that run Hornets are at a disadvantage to other ESFs.

Of course MBT drivers hate Hornets. They're one of the few things that can kill them. And Hornet users target them because they are the co-best target for them to kill.

If you want Hornets farming MBTs less, then decrease the damage to MBTs and increase the Hornet's effectiveness vs. other targets. If you want to decrease Hornet usage some, improve the Dual Photon Pods. Dual Photon Pods are not as good as the NC and TR Rocket Pods (firing 2 at once with slow pauses between really hurts their AI ability), make em like NC/TR and you'd see more players use them instead of Hornets.

In addition, Hornet usage is pretty low. Most ESF Pilots use Rocket Pods or AI Noseguns for G2A:

ESF: Average Uniques: Hornets
=================================
VS Hornet Missiles (VS)...........................318
TR Hornet Missiles (TR) ...........................306
NC Hornet Missiles (NC)...........................181
source: http://ps2oraclestats.com/monthlystats/ (select ESF Weapons)

ESF: Average Uniques: Rocket Pods
=================================
Dual Photon Pods (VS)...........................990
Hellfire Rocket Pods (TR)........................1469
Breaker Rocket Pods (NC)......................1206
source: http://ps2oraclestats.com/monthlystats/ (select ESF Weapons)

ESF: Average Unique: Anti-Infantry Noseguns
=================================
Light PPA (VS).......................................986
M14 Banshee (TR)..................................807 (and dropping)
M30 Mustang AH (NC)............................678
source: http://ps2oraclestats.com/monthlystats/ (select ESF Weapons)

gosh i wonder why that could be.

To fully represent live servers, there would be one walker and an 1/8 of a ranger (so no ranger). The rest would be basilisks, furies, and bulldogs.

Now that is no fun and no challenge to the ESFs. So, we will instead replace every basilisk with one ranger and one walker. 1 would use ammo, 2 would use blockade, and 3 would use repair. The utility slot would be FS. The performance slot would not be up to driver choice and the only option would be racer.

Lightnings would use Skyguard with optic of choice and Maxed out everything. Performance slot would be racer chassis. Defense slot would be side armor (NAR is useless in this context). Utility would be FS.

Meanwhile the ESFs would all be packing stock noseguns, hornets, FS, composite, and a performance slots of choice.

My money is on the ESFs no matter the continent. I can reliably fly 5-20m above the ground on any continent and pretty much ignore all AA that isn't right next to me. The ESFs will always pick off the Lightnings first with Hornets. Using a 2-2-6-2 strategy the ESFs could easily take out 1-3 lightnings a pass with hornets and noseguns. Exposure time would be 4 seconds max, and they would attack within seconds of eachother. After the Lightnings are dead the obvious focus would be the sunderers. Repair first, then ammo, then blockade. When attacking the blockade sunderers they would attack 12-0-0-0 so that the blockade sunderers would not be able to use their rear armor advantage. Easy kills.

The way to format the ground troops for the largest chance of surviving is best summarized by a picture.

Green=Skyguards
Orange=Blockade
Cyan=repair
Red=Ammo

This setup is somewhat fluid, but plays to each vehicle's value and strengths. I still highly doubt you could pull this sort of thing off against a sentient enemy. Not a bad idea for a scenario though.

it isn't used well because it sucks to use.

using AA is asking players a simple question. "do you enjoy not having fun?"

and if you were to rank which vehicles players find the most annoying in general aircraft would be in a class of there own.

making ESF's A2A would bring them in line with every other vehicle that sacrifices versatility for one intended role. if they they're outfitted for one job, like A2G, they shouldn't get to do them all. our gripe with air, and something i should have made more specific in the OP, is their undisputed dominance over all the ground vehicles. air vs. infantry is a different discussion. to fight air as ground, you have to specialize, to fight ground as air you don't. its that simple.

they already have a combo launcher that works as intended. the general consensus in this thread is the desire to nerf A2G and AA. right now ESF's are this weird limbo where they aren't playing the same game yet still play a huge part in it. now if this really were a "combined arms" game this wouldn't be the case. either make aircraft operate at a level approximate to their resource cost, or let them play there own game far away from ours.

anyone who gets good at anything in this game is hard to kill. the best harrasser drivers are hard to kill. the best sunderer drivers even more so. you must not play tanks very much if you think few things kill them.