[Suggestion] this game would be objectively more fun for a majority players if A2G ESF's were toned down.

If ESF's were completely overhauled to fit their intended role, A2A superiority fighters, this game would be objectively more fun to play for most players.

ESF's completely shut down the borders of fights forcing players to retreat to massive zergs that distill the gameplay of planetside 2 into whack-a-mole.

fights become less dynamic, less engaging, less sprawling, and more frustrating for a majority of players simply because a small group of these players chose to become adequate with the only vehicle in the game that can be outfitted with a universal loadout. The core concept of this game suffers because of this.

A common response I see used by pilots levied at those having the audacity to feel they have reached a point of ability in their chosen ground vehicle to go off and flank on there own being the most effective they can be is:


"if you go off alone of course you'll get destroyed by a single ESF who chose to go off alone as well. it should require a team of people to destroy my single manned aircraft that can be anywhere at once almost instantaneously with 2 weapons of my choosing"

to me its becoming more apparent that many pilots feel that this game is designed for them yet they ramble on about "combined arms".

it doesn't help that AA, a huge component of this game, is unsatisfying, unrewarding, and flat out boring. when i pull AV its because i enjoy it. most people scramble to AV turrets as soon as the bases defenses are being set up because the AV turrets:

• Feel powerful
• look powerful
• are powerful
• are rewarding
• are versatile

the same cannot be said about the AA turrets that do basic damage against aircraft and hilariously plink away at everything else


when myself and others pull AA its because i have no choice. many pilots seem to have trouble understanding that resigning my enjoyment of the game to become a human "do not trespass sign" is not something i want to do for the next 15 minutes because they lost too many times against their air rival and need to **** on a now previously fun infantry/vehicle fight to regain the confidence to try again. and that's what the A2A game is. a game unto itself completely detached from the rest of planetside 2. its a fighting game in which the losers are rewarded with the frustration of those who chose to have fun differently. i don't want my enjoyment of the game to depend on a fight going on above me that i can't intervene in without becoming bored to tears.

i get that you can't beat rguitar or whoever. please don't make our game less fun because you cant get better at yours.


TL;DR

nerfing ESF A2G would make the game more fun for about 80% of the playerbase.

I agree.

I think ESF A2G has a place, but right now ESF weaponry is disproportionately powerful and versatile. Equip default nosegun + Hornets and you can effectively kill aircraft, effectively kill ground vehicles, and you can even farm infantry on the side.

Honestly, Liberators have way more firepower but they're not nearly as frustrating. Ironically, Liberators are way more vulnerable than a single ESF and are way less of a threat. You can hear them coming from half a kilometer away and they're big easy targets, while it isn't hard for an ESF to get where he wants to be, faceroll you, then get away safely.

ESFs are just too powerful. Nothing in the game gives nearly as much power to a single player.

I like AA turrets.

I agree with each air craft specifically focusing on their intended roles. ESF's should be geared toward air-to-air, relying on their speed and agility, because ground forces could tear them apart. The Liberator should be focused on ground targets, with minimal defenses against air to air. The liberator should NOT be able to flip upside down, then outfight an ESF with an A2G weapon. Personally, the liberator (and Galaxy) shouldn't be allowed to flip upside down in the first place. Aircraft like the liberator and galaxy should immediately suffer a rapid loss of altitute once upside down just going off of the design of the aircraft alone.

Ground scrubs and peasants MUST all die!

Seriously - A2G ESFs these days are an utter joke though - you guys should try an A2G ESF sometime, and see how quickly you get evaporated.

If you want to farm your KDR, use a tank.

as predicted ,the scrubs we used to wreck all day in packs of spawncamping Libs have moved into roving squads of ESFs that first gank any enemy air and then proceed to farm ground.

if you really wanted to effect change you'd ask for the A2G xp to be nerfed. it's not like these guys are playing the objective and are going to do it out of the kindness of their heart, anymore than you are willing to play dedicated AA. take away their reason for doing it and 80% of them will move on to MAX units or whatever is determined to be the next best farm.

do you really think these BR 100 pilots are after XP? they do it purely for cathartic reasons. they do it because it makes them feel dominant.

I personally have no problem with A2G. I spend a lot of time (as you can probably tell from my avatar) flying my Mossie. And because of that, I know exactly what I hate. That one guy in the 48+/48+ battle who always pulls his A2G launcher the second he sees me, or the guy who hits me with a dumbfire when I'm trying to attack ground units and hovering like an idiot.

Whenever I have an issue like 10+ ESF's and Libs swarming a biolab, I just stand on the air pads, find a nice ammo box dropped by a kindly Engineer, and start spamming A2G missiles at whatever type of flying vermin that comes within my vision. In my experience, nearly all enemy air gets destroyed, or gets annoyed by me and flies off to some other base.

And at the end, I've got a tidy sum of certs from Lib kills and Scythe assists.

One free A2G ESF can ruin the days of a lot of infantry, but one dedicated AA HA can ruin the days of a fair few enemy aircraft.

of which there are never. ESF's are spammed endlessly especially on emerald. no amount of AA ever puts a dent in amount of ESF's pulled.

The worst part of all is that it's often air that is killing sundies. It's bad enough that they can farm infantry and easily get away safely, but then to also instantly end battles (and the enjoyment of what can be 100+ people) is pretty stupid.

It's one of the reasons bio lab fights are so popular. Air can't **** on them as easily.

Yep, resources are effectively infinite so even if the ESFs die they will be able to spawn new ones endlessly if they want to. They are also much cheaper than an AA MAX, resource wise, even if resources did matter.

Liberator has 3 people. Should it be on even terms with 3 infantry? No, it should be stronger, right? But a Liberator is dedicated anti-armor, not anti-infantry... Then why should an ESF which is crippled at air superiority (A2G weapons suck at A2A) also be crippled at A2G? Especially considering that an ESF is not necessarily dedicated A2A. They have anti-ground weapons for a reason. Besides, their closest comparison is an attack helicopter, which is anti-ground, FYI.

I gain entertainment from PS2, even as an infantry player, because it is a combined arms game. I don't want to play infantry-only fights. I want to worry about enemy ESFs and Liberators and hope we have friendly air superiority. I want to worry about enemy MBTs and hope we have our own, or Liberators.

You realize it does take a certain amount of skill to farm ground--I can't do it worth a damn (I get like one kill per pass if everyone is standing in the open and not moving like an idiot, and then a Burster chases me away). And even just carrying secondaries, you're weaker against air superiority ESFs because they have either ABs or lockons.

Except...A2A is not their ONLY intended role.

They are also A2G, with Multiple weapon systems to deal with both Vehicles and Infantry...

In fact if we look at the weapons available to ESF, I would say their intended role is A2G not A2A, since they have about 6 weapons for those roles, while only about 3 for A2A...

If you have an issue with ESF in an A2G role, then you should do one or more of the following....

- Spawn an ESF that is primarily focused on A2A, to combat and destroy those A2G ESF attacking your troops...
- Spawn a Liberator with a Shredder and a Walker in the tail gun to kill ESF...
- Spawn a Galaxy with a Walker on the top and rear guns, or just ram them...
- Spawn a Skyguard to kill or deter those ESF's
- Spawn a Dual Walker Sunderer to Kill or Deter those ESF's
- Spawn a Ranger or Walker Harasser to kill or deter those ESF's
- Spawn a MBT with a Walker or Ranger on the top gun, or pluck them out of the sky with 1 AP round
- Spawn an AA Max
- Equip one of the TWO G2A lock-on weapon
- Jump into an AA Turret to kill or deter those ESF

Getting farmed is choice....

I run with the 2nd highest VKPH nc outfit on Connery and even ESF's with Hornets aren't an issue.
Half of our maingunners are accurate enough to pop the dirty lil buggers clean out of the sky in one or two AP rounds.
And even when that fails, I'm always in a skyguard or MAX a few paces behind just in case. ESF's aren't scary anymore.

No what I'm constantly watching my back for is A2G lightassaults. And by "ground" I don't mean I'm in a vehicle either.
I never hear them coming, unlike ESF's, and they've been running that new Implant making them Sensor-proof.

It's kinda pointless to make so many A2G options, and then give everyone loads of AA options to deter air. It's like giving everyone invisibility, but then adding a special helmet that makes them visible. Getting rid of the A2G weapons on ESFs and getting rid of most AA weapons as well would not only make air relevant in large battles, but also make things much less messy. The way things currently are is the result of too much versatility.

I have no problem with the ESF's having A2G weapons, however, what makes them a little bit OP is their capability to hover and fight. Take real world aircraft that make gun runs and drop a nice 500 lbs JDAM; they fly by spray their target or drop their payload. When would you ever see an F-35, for example, hover in order to shoot its targets with its main gun? Never. The ability to hover is intended to provide a more versatile craft for take off and landings, hence the term Vertical Take Off and Landing (VTOL). Where do you see 360 degree Swooping, Hovering, and Simultaneously Fighting in VTOL? Aircraft like the Harrier and the F-35 were created to offer the aircraft more options for landing and launching, which is how they should be used.

Now, I get the belief that the ESF's are supposed to be the futuristic helicopters, but an aircraft was already created to fill that role, and that's the liberator. ESFs can still have their ability to hover, but they shouldn't be able to maneuver the way they do. The ESF VTOL capability should only be used for that very role: Vertical Take Off's and Landings. If it's going to provide any sort of A2G support, then it has to operate like it's RL comparisons - Fly by. That's why we call them "Fly-Bys." I get the whole discussion of the weapons not being powerful enough to be of any use for flybys, and I would get into weapon systems and loadouts for the ESFs, but I believe that's a different page.

The only viable anti air option that this game currently has is the Walker, and even that feels ineffective unless you do dual walkers on a battle Sunderer. The best option i can think of is removing the skyguard and bring in a vehicle based purely on AA, kind of like the anti air tank in battlefield which is very effective against air. The ranger is pointless to have for how bad it is so that should just get removed or get a serious overhaul.

People are STILL having problems with ESF's?

Ok. Can we fly at 1930km/h too please? I'm not trying a real strafing run at 350km/h.
That would be a lot more fun, but the tears of infantry players would flood the entire game (they can wipe out our whole zerg with no warning because we didn't bring a radar-guided long-range SAM launcher!) and I seriously doubt the game engine could handle it.

Dual-burster MAX has 3 second TTK on ESF at min damage range (which is far longer than any A2G weapon's effective range). Ever wonder why there are never any A2G ESFs in big battles?

kind of like how every other vehicle has the same issue when attempting a universal loadout?

my AP tank with a walker is useless against other tanks. the only thing a walker can do reliably on my tank is shoo away a single ESF from pestering me for 30 minutes.

while a hornet/nosegun combo can basically engage any threat reliably.

Hornet/nosegun loses to dedicated A2A ESF just like an AI/AA vehicle loses to AV vehicles. In fact they're pretty much identical. Both lose a specialized secondary while keeping their generic primary. Are you weaker for the loss of your Enforcer than I am for the loss of my afterburner? (Or just as likely my Tomcats)