There is a link between the rise of "infantryside" and the downfall of the games popularity

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Scr1nRusher, Jul 26, 2016.

  1. DrostenVS

    I think the biggest problem was straying too far from the setup in the original PlanetSide. They shouldn't have crammed all three empires on cluttered islands. PlanetSide 2 continent locking isn't as rewarding as conquering entire islands and pushing empires back to their sanctuaries.

    I also miss having to hack capture terminals on bases, draining bases of nanites, flipping non-lattice-linked towers that are highly defended, max crashing spawn tubes or gens, bridge battles at Andvari Dropship Center on Esamir (PS1), jump jets on my MAX, super fast MAX auto-run mode (the PS2 version (Charge) is no substitute for it), and many other things that were changed or omitted when they made this sequel.
  2. ColonelChingles

    The balance is that in competitive play ground assault vehicles have essentially no role. The only things that matter are infantry, MAXes, and ESFs. Sunderers are primarily used as spawnponts.

    It is currently not fun to play tanks, which is why so few people do it. Ideally, you know that the game is balanced between air, armour, and infantry if people spend roughly equal times in all three fields.

    As it is, I, a "tanker," only spends ~20% of my time actually tanking. This is because tanks are so ineffectual at doing anything that most often I'm ordered to leave my tank behind in platoon or squad play. It is a huge problem that an infantryman on the point is more valuable than a 100mm armoured fighting vehicle.

    Essentially, taking a base should be impossible without using vehicles and infantry at the same time.

    This is done by opening up bases to vehicles and strengthening vehicles against infantry.

    Imagine hypothetically that infantry would do zero damage to vehicles but infantry were the only ones who would capture points. This creates a situation where both infantry and vehicles are necessary to capture any point. Infantry are needed to stand around a point and to kill enemy infantry to keep them from standing around a point. Vehicles are needed to kill enemy infantry and the vehicles that are trying to kill your own infantry.

    This creates a situation where both infantry and vehicles are required. If you show up to fight with 96 infantry and the enemy brings a single tank all your infantry will die horribly. Because you failed to use combined arms.

    On the other hand, if you show up with 96 tanks and no infantry, you will not be able to take the point. Again, because you failed to use combined arms.

    Now having infantry do zero damage to tanks is a clear exaggeration, but the overall point is that a balanced game requires vehicle play alongside infantry play. Not that vehicles are simply an option, but that they are a requirement.


    What prevents base defenders from going back and organizing a quick armour/air reaction force?

    The attacking enemy is at a strong disadvantage: they have destructible spawns. Unlike the defenders who can spawn very close by, attackers need to rely mostly on Sunderers (with the possibility of spawn beacons) to sustain their numbers.

    An effective counter-attack is to spawn AP vehicles and focus down the enemy vehicles. Then you can knock out their Sunderers. Coupled with a reasonably strong infantry push inside the base (or simply wait for attrition), this is the best solution to an enemy attack. It is infinitely more preferable than fighting all the way across a base on foot and assaulting Sunderers as infantry.

    Now if the defenders don't want to pull vehicles, then that's really the fault of the defenders for not employing the proper tactics. It would be like complaining that you couldn't defend a base without shooting or something. Not taking advantage of all your tools is silly.
  3. guerrillaman

    How many ants/stealth sundies do you know just stop and do nothing as soon as the see an opposing mbt?

    None except those facing prowlers. They can just run away.

    I don't know how many times I have run into prowlers shelling my ant with GK and AP so I just sit there. Its really stupid. I can at least try to get to safety from a magrider... from a (GK/AP) prowler? Nope. Three seconds... wiped. Maybe 5 with shield.
  4. PYROxSYCO

    I like the term "Combat Ecosystem", This game revolves around all elements working together. If this balance is changed in favor of one over the other you can have a serious problem.
    • Up x 2
  5. FeralBoy

    Bingo!

    I am of the opinion that anything that is born eventually dies, and thus has an inevitable and unavoidable decline.

    I am not going to type walls of text trying to further or diminish anyone else's or my own hypothesis' on the reasons for this game's diminishing population. I don't feel the devs ever truly considered longevity as a prime method of lining their wallets with your money when they designed this lost shell of a game that once was PS1, and thus it's all moot anyway. The damage and premise was already cast long before it ever hit Beta.

    I will however point that the OP has said in other threads that the only reason MBT's sit on hillsides is because of C4.
    And I think he was actually being serious.
    Chew on that a few times...
  6. Scr1nRusher



    but it is true.

    Vehicles are punished for pushing up(This includes AMS's) by C4.


    forcing them to hold back and bombard, which then leads them to get killed by out of render distance infantry AV.
  7. FeralBoy

    It is not true. We didn't even have C4 in PS1 and MBT's still sat on hillsides in that game.
  8. FeralBoy

    My point was you are exaggerating the effect of C4 and minimizing the intended effort of MBT's "softening up" a bases defenses. That is all.
  9. FeralBoy

    Players will sit in MBT's and rack up easy kills on soft targets from range because THEY CAN, not because C4 forced them out....
    don't put the chicken before the egg.
    • Up x 1
  10. Scr1nRusher


    I don't have to exaggerate C4, I just have to look at the history of it & the ripple effects it has caused.



    Base design also has played a factor.
  11. FeralBoy

    Schitty drivers and the occasional caught off guard driver are punished by C4. As they should be. No amount of LA C4 brick mailers will ever stop a concerted armor column. EVER.
    Every unit in this game except for Liberators and Gals face the possibility of a OHK oops I over extended myself. That is how it should be. As a long time player of PS1 and a late returner to PS2 I will not go quietly hearing the nonsense that campers on a hillside camp because of C4.
    MBT's camp on hillsides because it's EASY.
    • Up x 1
  12. FeralBoy

    That is actually true. I agree,
  13. FeralBoy

    Did you ever play Planetside? I'm not being facetious. Almost every base except for Tech plants required shelling from range to destroy base turrets and remove infantry from the outer concourse before the courtyard became accessible and ultimate awesome insane indoor infantry hallway fights could ensue.

    Softening up a base was sound tactics even then. Not C4 or Boomer or AV mine related.
  14. Who Garou

    I didn't dig through all of that to see if you listed what sever you are on.

    If anything - on Emerald, there is more aircraft in the game now than there was before the patch.

    Ground vehicles have always been used on Emerald, and I have seen no decrease in the use of ground vehicles in-game play.

    Perhaps you are in an area that precludes or limits the use of vehicular combat.

    if anything, it sounds like a server specific issue. If you think more vehicles should be used, I have to ask if you are using vehicles yourself? ... and are you having an issue finding gunners?
  15. Scr1nRusher



    Theres alot of factors to this, which is why I brought it up in the OP.




    It has nothing to do with personal stuff, contrary to how many that have been reaching for straws.
  16. freeAmerish

    Please DayBreak Tanks should only damage Tanks!
    I can´t get out of the spawnroom while 20 Prowlers waiting for me...
  17. Scr1nRusher


    If your base is that overwhelmed.... then spawn at another.
  18. Rebelgb


    Brilliant.
  19. Cymric

    I am not familiar with server smash meta, but don't you need your own air and vehicles to defend your galaxy and sunderer spawns in server smash?
  20. LaughingDead

    All you would need is air. Air is mobile, provides spawns and provides all the tools to kill everything. With air, why bring tanks?
    • Up x 3