[Suggestion] The Ultimate Thread Dedicated to Refurbishing TR as a Faction

Damage. As has been said multiple times.


Knock down damage a tier. Then take a look at increasing RoF / Recoil / Clip size and see what works.

Well, now that we all seem to be semi getting along, I though it might be a good time to try and throw an entirely new idea into the mix.

I present to you,

A prowler ability slot suggestion

Alright, as any of you that have been here since... roughly GU4 or before probably know, the idea of revamping the prowlers ability isn't an entirely new one. However, the argument hasn't evolved much since we originally started saying it... well, sometime deep in beta (possibly even alpha). The issue is pretty much this - besides for increasing our ROF or speed, pretty much no one has ANY idea what such an ability should be.

Which is where this comes in.

But first, a bit of legitimizing for my idea (which I will state AFTER it starts to sound less insane). As pretty much everyone knows, the problem with anchor mode isn't that it increases our ROF, that's what we want and its pretty much the core ideology in our factions weapon design (or, its supposed to be). The issue, is its pretty much full-force abandonment of what the prowler should be, which is a fast moving, hard hitting light / medium tank. Light / medium as in little armor. As in its not supposed to stop moving.

As in that's why we hate anchored mode.

Meanwhile, the NC are running around with an at-will activation uber shield that pretty much trolls anyone who manages to get the drop on it. With the NC's core weapon ideologies being armor and hard-hitting weaponry, there shield works fine for them.

Then, we get to the VS. These guys get a short boost, or pretty much a nitro, for there tank. While this may seem to be strangely at odds with there faction specific traits of high maneuverability and long-range weaponry... its actually not. The VS can quite literally use the magburner to nitro there way up some of the sheerest cliffs on auraxis, and then "maneuver" all they want up there. The magburner, is actually excellent in line with the vanu's maneuverability trait.

Or, it was...

As pretty much everyone also knows, the magriders were nerfed hard after there 1-month long absolute r*pe fest of EVERY other armored vehicle IN THE GAME. Although magburner is probably still working fairly good for the vanu, I'm not actually a vanu and so I don't quite know how things are going over there...

However, there ability does fit in almost perfectly with there factions traits and ideology. Because, at the very least, it allows there long-range weaponry armed magriders to quickly run away from any un-favorable positions (even if it leaves there *** wide open while doing so).

And finally, we get back to... Anchor mode. The TR's weapon ideology is, of course, rapid movement and firing, evading with speed and burying with lead. Anchor mode gets this 50-50, but why settle for that when every other faction gets 100%?

Which is why I suggest this...

Ditch anchored mode... and replace it with a certable on turret AV mini-gun / machine gun.

NOW you probably get why I listed all of that "legitimizing". But really, think this through. The NC's ideology is to take as many hits as possible, for as long as possible, and then to hit back with as strong a punch, AS possible. But overall... the NC's ideology is largely defensive.

The VS, meanwhile, believe in using long-range weaponry coupled with highly maneuverable vehicles. The VS pretty much aim to tire there enemies down from range... and then rapidly close in to secure the kill. Effectively, there ideology is ro wear down there enemies from range, and then close in for the kill. Magburner? Working fine there.

Then, the TR. We believe in rapid movement, to get in close as quickly as possible, and then to utterly annihilate our enemies with fast-firing, highly destructive and close range weaponry. Anchored mode? No... not really working here...

Why?

Because the TR, are OFFENSIVE. We believe in attack, to bury our enemies in a seas of led, to rapidly close distances and destroy. Anchored mode? Or a devastating short-range AV machinegun, much like the Vulcan?

Oh, and to the NC and VS... don't worry. Its not really going to be that bad - for one, you can both either run away really quickly or troll our best attempts to fight you with your uber shield. On the bad side, it might also work much like eskimo suggested for the Vulcan... as in rather then being limited by ammo, its limited by an overheat mechanic.

Yet luckily (for you... ) do to extraordinarily bad terran designs (improvised weaponry from AFTER we crash landed over here...), our tank will "accidentally" vent most of its heat into the mini-gun... so even if were not actively firing it, its still moving to overheat. And do to yet more genius by our high command, purging our entire scientific research teams, it also takes roughly however long your shield/magburner takes to cooldown again.

Yet, look on the bright sides. For one, we've discovered that certs are actually a fairly good coolant. For 2, our design teams really aren't that bad (the 3rd purge is always the lucky go). Rather then forcing us to use the F button to fire, they assigned the firing key to the right mouse button... once activated with F. Unfortunately, it apparently never popped up to them to then re-assign the scope key... the 4th purge must be the one!


Oh, and before you guys start to dig into this point - this wouldn't actually be that hard to implement. Why, you might ask? Well, because... its extraordinarily likely it already exists.

Case in point -



That, of course, is not a prowler. Nor, even, a know vanguard model. As far as I can tell, this model was scrapped either in pre-alpha or alpha. Possibly, but not likely, as late as early beta.

Of course, I present to you evidence of the models for a machine gun (and likely all the code necessary to make it work), merely for the vanguard. But lets think this through



If it exist for the vanguard, it almost certainly exists for the prowler. Those huge, gaping holes probably aren't there for nothing, after all.

So,

tl:dr

To replace anchored mode, I suggest that, rather then just adding in a "Click F to get more ROF" ability, we give the prowler a truly unique ability, a certable machine gun / mini-gun. The reason why which one to give us is up for debate, is that there's actually fairly good reasons to believe that SOE already has a fully modeled, and possible even fully functioning, prowler turret machine gun somewhere in its files. So not only would this truly be in line with the TR's faction traits and ideology, it would even be rather easy to implement.

So, does anyone have anything they'd like to add?

1. The Striker requires much less Skill than the Lancer or the Phoenix by a mile, you look in one direction, wait for the green box to appear and click . That is the extent of skill put into the Striker, looking in the right direction. With the Lancer if you're skilled you can snipe armor from 600m away and snipe aircraft out of the sky with almost no travel time. With the Phoenix you can chase down a tank that hides behind cover, and shoot at things behind cover if you know how to maneuver it, you can also 2 shot infantry with it while being to hide behind cover. If you think locking on to something by looking in the right direction requires skill, that's not the type of skill I want in TR weapons.

2. The Vulcan is Gatling gun in ROF and look, but not in function. The Gatling gun back 1800's even had a higher magazine/belt capacities of around 105 and shot anywhere from 400-1,400 rounds per minute. Does the Vulcan in game behave like the one on the SUV in the video? Is it as fun to shoot as the one in the video? No on both counts

3. The Vanguards ability doesn't compliment the Vanguard? Lets think about this, for a moment. The strongest tank having an ability that makes it stronger doesn't compliment its ability to be strong? The Magrider's being able to be mobile and escape bad situations to avoid damage doesn't compliment its strafing nature to avoid damage? The Magburner could use a duration buff, but the Vangaurd shield is downright awesome and is not dull.

4. With how easy it is to C4 or Flank a tank in battle which are rarely 1v1 battles, and with how many players are in a game, I could think of no more devastating disadvantage than being locked in place and have to wait to undeploy when you're actively being attacked from the rear. It's the worst disadvantage in the game for a tank to have, and especially for a big boxy, easy to hit from behind tank.

5. The Prowler needs a temporary ROF boost ability, with a cool down. An advantage with no disadvantage that only has a cool down. It will be just like the other two tanks in that sense and that would be fair and balanced.

Great thread. Just read all 16 pages. It's a shame some people have mistaken this for a "buff TR" thread.

I understand this thread to be about (re)design ideas to make the game more fun (specifically when playing as, or even against, TR) without a net change to balance. Related fun things include: team identity/philosophy/feel/unique-ness when playing a team game, interesting mechanics other than the RoF, CoF, recoil and reload stats, asymmetric game balance (exploiting strengths and weaknesses, and succeeding because you've done something well rather than locking on, clicking 5 times and then have no further influence on your success... I'll try to relate to this stuff as I go.

In response to some of the ideas in the original post:

General infantry weapons stuff
I think it is terrible for the TR identity that the NC and VS have faster firing weapons. RoF is supposed to be a TR thing. Average RoF stats don't mean anything when some the most TR-like weapons don't belong to the TR. It's like the TR having a heavier hitting LMG than the SAW. I actually like the fact that the TMG-50 is the TR's 'like a SAW but not quite'. The NC's and VS's fastest firing weapons should be like a TR weapon but not quite (i.e. not quite as fast rate of fire but with their faction trait to balance it).

The M7 Chaingun
This just has to be the fastest firing infantry weapon in the game. I can't understand why it isn't. I actually use the MCG a lot as it has a unique mechanic to it that makes it fun to use even when I know an LMG would probably be more effective. It also feels like I'm firing loads of bullets so it's sad when you realise you're firing slower than an NC carbine . I'd happily take hits in other balance areas for increased RoF. I'll come back to this later.

Striker
This is sad. It looks cool, the animations are good, the rockets are red - all good things. Unfortunately it's just so boring to use, has no unique mechanic unlike the other ESRLs, and your success with it depends more on what your target does than you. I like the delayed laser guidance optional-cluster idea.

Prowler
Agree that the turret should be centralised. Not sure on lockdown. I like that it gives more dakka which does fit in with TR. The mobility problem is an interesting one. At the moment speed is not really that much of an advantage in combat so losing that advantage doesn't seem like that big a cost to me. If a lock-on's turning speed was slow (allowing a fast moving tank the chance of avoiding the rocket), or if the turret rotation of other tanks was slow (making it difficult to track a fast moving tank) then this would change my opinion.

I'm a little disappointed that most people, with a few exceptions, are limiting their ideas for TR faction identity and balance to RoF, CoF, recoil, reload and other boring stats. Balance and unique-ness can be achieved in other ways (although I worry that this sort of thing will never happen because no-one can see the disadvantages on a spreadsheet...). Here's a few ideas that aren't necessarily original.

Faction specific disadvantages coupled to the advantages
I think the idea of TR having the overheating mechanic on a lot of their weapons is a good way to balance RoF and larger magazines. All large clip, high RoF weapons should have this in exchange for more RoF. I think a more interesting weapon mechanic for the VS would be that they have smaller magazines/batteries with their fast reload. However when the battery runs out the weapon can still fire but at reduced damage like 25%. Could even remove the magazine element altogether and just have ammo that replenishes at a certain rate as if the battery is recharging. Sustained fire with the heavy hitting NC weapons could cause increasing damage but increasing recoil. I'm not saying these ideas are perfect but they're the kind of thing that would make the factions feel more unique. I know this is meant to be TR specific but I think a large part of making the TR feel unique is making the other factions feel different in other ways too. Having faction specific disadvantages is a much easier way to balance faction specific advantages and also make the faction feel unique.

Chaingun
Increase the rate of fire but make it underslung and the user barely able to move when spinning it up (I really think ADS should spin up without firing). Give someone the advantage of a slightly overpowered weapon but make the disadvantages that they're completely exposed when using it (and actually cant fire it behind cover). Make it noisy when spinning so that even spinning it up gives away your position. I also like the idea of a single, non-reloadable, but resupply-able magazine and an overheating mechanic.

Vulcan
Make this similar to the chaingun idea above. You could even give it recoil as I think it'd enhance the dakka feel of it.

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to get involved in the discussion as I'm starting to get bored of playing TR. I hope SOE are brave enough to make the changes needed to keep the game fun for everyone. It'd be sad if they felt they couldn't do a lot of this due to the FTP model meaning that people have spent money on the 845 NC carbine and they'll be angry if it went to 800.

I think that the lockdown ability should be kept. Though weak in offense except in sieges (it is called siege mode for a reason), it can be amazingly powerful in defense, where mobility is not so important. Having a siege tank like the one from SC2 must feel awesome.

However, new abilities without cost of speed is necessary. I personally believe that every tank should be able to equip a coaxial machine gun, so it cannot be a TR-specific ability. Perhaps there could be a "reload mechanism overdrive" which greatly increases reload speed for a duration, but after that ends reload is much slower (due to overheating). In addition, there could be shaped charges on the side of a tank which explode outwards to decimate enemy infantry and possibly vehicles. These charges would be rebuilt by nanites, but it would take a while due to the complexity of the polymers.

This is a very detailed and thoughout response and I commend you for going through the effort of reading all 16 pages of the thread. I feel you have a firm understanding of the issues with the current TR faction traits. I'm happy to see that you've agreed with a lot of my suggestions too. The only thing I didn't think belonged was your suggestion that Gatling guns should have recoil. This is only because it was the genius design of the Gatling gun which allowed it to shoot fast without recoil which is what made it so popular to use on helicopters, Humvee's, and Buff Austrians.

Loved your post. I've been playing more NC because they seem to have more weapon options. Being able to choose between GD-7F, AF-19, and GD-23 offers considerable variety where the TR is lacking (especially with carbines). My favorite class is LA and the TR carbine selection is very disappointing.

Sounds like a gigantic case of " I picked the faction whos playstyle doesn't fit my own."

A simple fix to weapons seeing as SoE has combined most faction traits among all weapons.

1. Make all weapons available to all empires. Everyone starts out with the 3 "free" weapons and can buy whatever they want.
So now if you think another faction has something good you can just get it, cert it up, and go use it. Hacksaws on my TR max would make me soooooooo happy. Onslaughts on my VS and NC max would as well considering I play all 3 factions.
Pretty simple I think. Prowler still needs work, Terran looks need work, and yeah pretty much everything stated here.

Please read the my initial post in full before commenting. The TR are not following their lore and are starting to feel very "meh" in design and function in multiple ways. I would appreciate if you could make thought out constructive criticism posts in the future.

So the TR want all of this... ok.

I can't wait for a player to do this for the Vanu Sovereignty and then watch as every TR player says "no".

Oh, my bad. I thought you were referring to the MCG. I'm totally cool with the Vulcan getting those changes, although its damage/round will need to be significantly reduced. Imagine what a 10-second burst of Vulcan fire would do. It would also need a limited ammo reservoir, otherwise the other factions will rightly decry the "super infinite spam chaingun OF DOOM" as OP compared to their limited combat potential and necessary fire discipline. But using overheat as a unique reload system would be pretty damn cool.

Well, start a thread. I'd like to see unique Vanu weapons that aren't machine guns with blue bullets. Go on, chop chop. This is discussion of TR assets, and possibilities. It's not demands, it's ideas. It is at the brainstorming stage of the discussion. Get working on your Vanu discussion, and I'll try to avoid making BS posts (like your one I'm replying to) in that thread. Hell, I'll be productive!

If you can't be like Zorro and contribute, go away. How hard is that for people to do?

Well, if someone wants to suggest a change to VS that would be fine. So far no one has, and I can't think of anything that really needs changed (Magrider might need some buffs though).

Well I won't be one of them Shockwave, and I'll even fight some of the TR/NC trolls away too. Making the factions more cool and unique benefits everyone after all since it makes for a a better gaming experience.

Btw, any thoughts on the design ideas I posted?

+1 to the OP's post even thou this will be read by the devs like "Ah you mean VS is too good in your mind ... ok we fix it by nerfing all VS to lower level thus returning TR uniqueness" ^^

One thing I really think might fit into this is more burst-fire oriented weapons. I have recently gone back and started using the Trac-5 S Burst, which was the first weapon I bought back when I was starting out. I eventually acquired more specialty weapons and used those a lot more, but this weapon is a lot of fun. I also feel that it kind of fits into this kind of TR mechanic. Burst fire weapons can be both accurate and have a high ROF, while also having controllable recoil. Maybe bursts which fire more than 3x bullets, or have certable options for different burst modes. I know a lot of weapons currently have this as an alternate fire mode, but it's not generally quite as effective as the bullet hose because of the weapon design.

I feel like it fits well into the high ROF, accurate mode which matches the TR description, while also being kind of a fun mechanic.

They better not be that careless about this. This needs to be done in a careful way while paying attention to the Lore and faction traits, I already stated what traits I think the Vanu should have multiple times. Vanu's factions traits shouldn't make them a weak contender by any stretch of the imagination.

You can't give the Prowler any more DPS. It already has the greatest DPS of all tanks by a significant margin.

The lockdown mode is incredible and underused. There are too many TR players who seem to be in some kind of strange partisan fantasy when it comes to their faction. I play all three factions and imho you have the most powerful infantry weapons, the best ESF, the highest DPS tank. The Striker and your new Max weapon and phenomenal.

I am sorry, but the last thing you need is a buffed tank. It's just absurd.

Agreed, burst could be a really good alternative to giving TR high damage guns, go with bursts that have crazy low first shot multipliers, but really high recoil. (So in burst very little recoil, but as soon as it's over you get a ton).

Not a buffed tank, just an ability that compliments its stated ability to "run circles around other MBT's". I have 200 hours in my Prowler and I despise Anchor mode. It's straight up situational, likely to get you killed on the front lines or if anyone interupts your 1v1 fight with another tank, and it's not a straight up buff ability. I want an ability that compliments that tank, not one that goes against its speed trait.