The Ultimate Combined Arms Thread (Tanks vs Infantry)

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by EliteEskimo, Aug 15, 2013.

  1. Jachim

    "You know what's like urban terrain? [insert something completely not like urban terrain at all]."

    Is that all you have for argument? And then some anecdotal evidence of how you can instantly kill AV turrets (that are firing at you while you're firing at something else, getting several hits in before you can locate them in the far distance in between other similarly colored terrain and maybe occasionally their rockets will actually, you know, render).

    Armor, currently, is completely outmatched by infantry. AND it costs 450 resources. SOE's argument for increasing its resource cost is how much resource you can get while in it, which is completely thrown off by many people having 100% resource boosts, etc etc. Those without them are literally screwed and cannot play what they want to play.

    What if you couldn't play your play style all the time and were forced to not be an engineer and flying air all the time? The prevailance of AV weapons is a far greater concern than AA is for you mossy pilots. There are only a few weapons designed to take out air. Bursters being the big one, and lockons following that, sure Rangers, and the occasional other AA gun on a sundy or something but really, your main issue is Burtsters. Also you have to worry about enemy air.

    Tanks have to worry about C4-spammers dropping from the sky, or popping out from cover somewhere instagibbing suicidally. We have to worry about mines (mineguard helps there, thankfully), we have to worry about (For TR) Lancers, Vortex (lol i know), Comets, racial lockon and dumbfire, NS dumbfire, NS Annihilators, Phoenix and Ravens... apparently it's worse for some with VS/NC worrying about Strikers etc... We have to worry about libs daltoning us from max ceiling. We have to worry about ESF's strafing behind us for massive damage. THEN we have to worry about enemy tanks, harassers, cheapo lightnings, sundies...

    There are so many counters for the infantry, so much so that every major battle in this game turns into human wave attacks rushing each other across open terrain, ducking behind hills waiting for sundy support to come up (only to have it C4'ed or mined to oblivion of course) unable to defend those sundies because their armor is destroyed within the first few minutes of the engagements and any dedicated armor user is forced to run around like a ******* lemming on foot until their timer/resources are back.

    That is not combined arms. That is pre-industrial armies throwing bodies at each other without the fancy formations.
  2. Jachim

    Your theoretical time when both gunner and driver are not distracted by, say, ENEMY ARMOR?

    What then? I guess you get C4'ed and nothing you can do because instagibbing tanks is such hard work for the poor light assault. :( If he dies, he loses so much resources oh wait...
  3. Jachim

    problems with the drop pod system.

    Do tell. What problems are there with the drop pod system, good sir?

    The problem is absolutely with C4. I'm fine with a squad of enemies dropping into a Sundy pile or a bunch of tanks and trying to take them out, but they shouldn't be able to by themselves. There should be no easy way to viably kill a tank by yourself. If there is, then there is an absolute imbalance.

    You can skip the complaints about how if C4 is nerfed all tanks will immediately drop what they're doing and fire only on the enemy spawn point ignoring everything else because they've used that excuse before too and it's laughable.
  4. Ender

    Wait, are you trying to say its BS that a tank can't lockdown Primary Base Capture Points with HE spam? Combined Arms Warfare does not mean your tank gets to participate in every single aspect of the game. If you want to help your outfit, get out of your tank every once in awhile. The primary unit in Planetside is infantry. Infantry can utilize armor/air/turrets/etc, but they do not become these things o_O. You are still allowed to get out of your vehicle and contribute.

    I'll never understand why people choose to pigeon-hole themselves into one style of play in this game. Then they get mad (I'm not implying you're mad Eskimo) when something changes about their style because that's the ENTIRETY of their gameplay experience. Soon after comes the this game is trash i'm quitting blah blah blah, it's boring, there's no meta, stupid devs my idea was better, garbage garbage, its the same thing over and over, how dare you nerf/change my style. Here's the thing....It doesn't get boring if you try out all the aspects of the game and switch from time to time.

    You can play tanker, but don't expect to be able to always be relevant. You can play Air Extraordinaire, but don't expect to be able to rocket pod everywhere. You can play infantry (several types), but don't expect to one shot all the people in air/armor. You can also join squads/platoons/outfits and completely alter your gameplay experience for the better....or worse.

    Eskimo, get out of your tank dude. Granted, AV turrets do need a fix :p
    • Up x 4
  5. Thrustin

    Ah, so you are implying that you only get C4'd in a 2 man tank, when distracted by enemy armor. In other words, the light assault was playing with the enemy armor in a team, to destroy you. Or the least, there were more than one person involved to take down your tank. Something which you previously stated you would like to see in the game, correct?
    In addition, even if you were to nerf C4, in such a situation where you are damaged by enemy armor you would've been blown to pieces anyhow.

    I can do the same cheese moves with mines, to an even greater effect.
    The issue lies with people not rendering when they drop pod in and the fact that you are instantly able to move, thus can easily bypass enemy lines by exploiting the beacon system and switching up the squad leaders so you can squad deploy almost always.
    In PS1, people didn't drop pod so fast, they slowed down shortly before arriving on the floor. In addition, If I recall correctly, you couldn't steer the drop pod and you would always spawn outside a base. So it was impossible for you to drop into a base.

    In other words, if you would change the system to following:

    -Fix the rendering problem
    -Make you wait until the drop pod opened its door until you can exit
    -Make drop pods destructible/able to shoot through it and into the enemy soldier within
    -Fix the issue with switching up squad leaders so you can constantly drop pod in. Same with beacons.

    You will never ever see these things occurring again, and less cheesy moves of people annihilating sundies by constantly drop podding in. Tanks would blow up drop pods before they even open, and infantry near sundy would shoot the pod to pieces before the doors open.

    You and a lot of other people here on these forums are suggesting band aid fixes. The game has seen enough of these and they are the reason it's in its miserable state. Try to see the bigger picture next time.

    I easily take out a tank myself with either tank mines, spawning a tank myself, spawning an ESF, solo'ing a lib and tankbusting your behinds. You are too fixated with C4.

    I don't recall ever mentioning anything close in that direction. If I have, I apologize, it is a rather weak argument.
    • Up x 1
  6. Tristan

    Yea, I agree that someone shouldn't be a dedicated anything. I just said that. In a game where you can cert into and play anything at will, resources allowing, playing one thing all the time is a poor choice. The way someone could want to play the game is to run around as an infiltrator with a scout rifle never using the cloak. I'm still going to call it dumb.
  7. EliteEskimo

    Ender considering I don't even have Auraxium on my HE Turret with my Prowler after playing 250+ hours in it, and the fact I'm using AP more and more these days, I suggest you drop the strawman argument of me wanting to lockdown a base with it. BWC's Rampage members 99% of the time either pull HEAT or AP and we love to kill armor, but unfortunately armor is not always present for us to kill. Infantry get to participate in every part of the game right now, there is nothing they can't do that they need a tank and often time they don't need Sundy support between bases because how close many bases are. If you see tank up close you one shot it by yourself with 2 C4, or go pick it off from ranges it can't fire back with a Lancer or AV Turret. I believe that all the bases with walls on Esamir can still be rocketpodded or hit by Liberators so effectively it is tanks that are getting screwed over here so there is cause for concern here. Tanks are having one of their very few roles removed, courtyard support, and honestly this walled off BS shouldn't even be coming in until they come out with the new resource system and ANT's to make up for this lost role. Unlike DasAnfall BWC constantly has an armor task force up with MBT's, an air task force up, and multiple infantry task forces up. So we have people who specifically like to be Tankers, Pilots, and Infantry within our combined arms outfit all providing support to the overall outfit. Guess which side is the only one which at times has nothing to do when a base is being flipped? The Tank Task Force.

    Furthermore Ender if Rampage gets out of our tanks, after 5 minutes on the ground 450 resources are gone and we don't get those back. So your suggestion of merely getting out of my tank is not helpful. I'm really good in a Max, but I'm not getting out of my tank if I don't have significant resources coming in to replace the significant 450 resource loss. Furthermore Ender on Maps like Indar or Amerish a player for the most part never has to get out of their tank because they can impact the bases. This is especially the case with Indar. With Hossin's Anti-Tank environment coming out and Esamir going from Tanker Paradise to Tanker Hell Hole with bases really close together and walled off I see a complete lack of insight in regards to Armor game play.
  8. Tristan

    I fixed that for you.
  9. zib1911

    This is all opinion, I don;t give a **** if you don't like what I do. I don't give a **** if you think I am stupid for doing it.

    Your being a child calling people dumb for doing something you don't like. You need to grow up and accept that other people enjoy different things then you. If you have some point to bring up other then making this little post calling people names then please state your concerns or stop trolling.
    • Up x 1
  10. Tristan

    No, I'm being a realist trying to show you that you're doing it wrong.

    I think I've found the real problem: You're not nearly as good outside of your tank as you like to think, and I'm not sure if you realize it. Here are your max stats.


    Here is your top infantry weapon stat. It's 11 spots down your weapon board sorted by number of kills.


    This'll probably come off as a troll post, but it's sincerely meant to help you see what Ender and others are trying to say. While you have some valid points, like the engineer turret being one of the most overpowered things in this game, your views on this are very clearly biased due to how unwilling you are to participate in any part of the game that exists outside of a vehicle.

    Edit: Fixed the stats image to give numbers context.
  11. ProfessorHobbes

    On the subject of AV mana turrets. I don't see them as the most OP weapon in the game. When it comes to using them at very long ranges, I find that unless the vehicle is stationary or you are a VERY good shot, it's very difficult to hit anything. Plus, constant spam of these weapons at super long ranges is something I almost never encounter. Sure some good players do this, but I've almost never seen someone shut down an entire armor push while playing. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it's not a common thing.

    I like your idea of the range decrease though because it is very easy to implement, but I see one problem with this. The AV turret excels at range. That is when this thing becomes useful. When we start losing a base I retreat to the next one and start using the turret to hinder the enemies push to our next base. It's very effective...until the infantry arrive. ONE sniper is all it takes to shut an AV turret down. Even if he misses me the first shot or two, there is no way I am stupid enough to get back on a stationary turret with snipers in the area. Once that infantry push gets in range the weapon almost always becomes useless, unless you happen to encounter a very stupid group of people. Not to mention an infantry on an AV turret will render farther for a sniper than the regular infantry. When I look on a hill while sniping, the turret users are the first thing I see and the first thing I kill since they are so easy to take out. Get in one of these things in render distance to infantry is basically putting a big "KILL ME PLEASE" sign above your head.

    Could the AV turret use some tweaking? Sure, but turning the weapon into something similar to a Phoenix where it has a limited range completely kills the weapon. Bottom line, someone using the turret at long ranges is using it properly and effectively; out of range of enemy armor and snipers. They are playing smart. Take this away and I see no point in using the weapon any more. Why sit on a stationary turret, with only a 300m range, that renders farther then any other infantry, when you could grab a weapon like a lancer, or striker, or annihilator? Post was longer than intended, but thought I would throw in my two cents.
    • Up x 1
  12. zib1911

    Prove that to me, that one sentence, if you do that I will concede your right and I am doing it wrong.
  13. Tristan

    If the design of the game intended for individuals to stay in vehicles at all times, there wouldn't be timer or resources limiting it? This is really simple.
  14. Ronin Oni

    There will be a resource overhaul and auraxium deliveries in the near future.
  15. Delta102

    I understand where you are coming from and agree with your philosophy, but the problem I have is that right now infantry do everything better than tanks or aircraft. Infantry may not pack the punch tanks have but they have significantly more staying power with the capability of engaging targets over significantly larger distances than tanks or aircraft while being effectively immune from damage. Tanks and aircraft should dominate the open ground between bases not infantry.

    To that end I disagree with EliteEskimo and only wish to see the long range capabilities of infantry reduced while leaving there cqc options such as deci's and c4 intact.

    For example to counter a tank column its better to just drop a squad bacon and then land in an advantageous position and pick off targets with strikers/lock ons or lancers than it is to mount a counter charge with tanks of your own. Infantry are easier to organize and require significantly less cert investment on top of being more survivable.
    • Up x 1
  16. Tristan

    Sounds like solid tactics to me. Maybe you should combined arms your way into sending your air squadron over to rocket spam the infantry up on a cliff?
  17. Delta102

    Air can't function for more than a few seconds in any fight over a platoon.
  18. Tristan

    Exactly how long does it take a squad of skeeters and libs to explosion the crap out of a group of lancer users on a cliff?
  19. Delta102

    If it was just lancers sure wouldn't take long, but if its lock ons, say strikers, air wouldn't be able to do any meaningful damage before being wiped out and put on timers while those infantry killed would just be ressed up. It only takes a a few players with lock ons to scare away even the best of pilots. I only included lancers as an example they aren't the only weapon shutting down vehicles.
    • Up x 2
  20. Tristan

    I'm sorry, but this is pretty willfully ignorant. Flying alone, I can zip into a pretty large battle and have enough time to receive a lock, pop flares, hailstorm an infantry or two, and zip out before anyone can relock me. Flak can be a different issue, but it's mitigated by the fact that groups like yours are capable of throwing full squads of air at targets.

    The idea that you can't wipe out a squad of infantry behind your armor column with air is silly. Anyone who gets locked can flare and spam at least one or two people. Anyone who takes a lot of flak can peel off and come back 10 seconds later. There is more than enough time for a group of air to wipe out the ground in the situation you suggested. I would have expected someone in the outfit of Combined Arms to get this.