That .025 horizontal recoil difference is what allows the TMG-50 to be good at both medium and long range, but pigeon-holes the Flare into medium range only since no amount of skill will let you compensate for the additional recoil. The TMG-50 also has a lower first shot recoil, making burst firing more predictable, and a faster recoil decrease, letting you recover faster between bursts. Both traits further increase its long-range superiority over the Flare. The Flare OTOH is slightly more accurate during hipfire and while moving during ADS, but it's not a close range weapon. So one could say that it's a bit less sucky at short range. So the TMG-50's stats are simply superior where it counts, turning it into a good long range weapon. The Flare, OTOH, has a mix of traits giving it an identity crisis and a lack of purpose since it's not really spectacular at anything.. They may have many stats in common but they certainly aren't clones. The Ursa is pretty good for long range work though. I'd consider buying it, but I already have the SVA-88, Flare, and Eidolon so my HA already has all engagement ranges pretty well covered.
The Ursa though is a fun weapon. Completely different style to the Orion/LSW/SVA, yet devastatingly effective at mid and long range, and surprisingly not sucky even at CQC. The low RoF is a blessing in disguise, when combined with the excellent accuracy and high damage per round. Cool model as well. Perhaps give it a try when it comes to sale again (that's how I got it, same day it got the model make-over).
I've always been to the opinion even in PS1 that vanu has a lower pop. The game is always dominated by NC and TR, mainly on colors is my assumption. So because of their lower pop they should have better weapons, after all that is their whole gimmick, a higher technology. It's not like their weapons are so OP you can't kill them, but some of them are better. The Orion should be better because for every Vanu heavy their is 2-3 NC or TR heavies. That said I have no problem killing vanu, and I actually prefer to fight to them because I think my okay style matches to their weapons better. The Orion, in my opinion, is probably the best LMG, but I never feel constantly overmatched or think it should be nerfed. And back to my original point, look at the server pops or continent pops, or continent caps, Vanu are always at the bottom. I have played NC since PS1 and only had NC characters, so my bias obviously isn't toward the Vanu. The TR and Vanu have better LMG's for cqb, but the jackhammer beats both of those, including their heavy weapons, and the Anchor competes with the Orion at CQB. More power to the Vanu as far as I'm concerned die to their low pop, and it's not like anything they have is that much better than the things you can get on other factions.
Pretty broad generalization for a game with multiple servers. I play on two where Vanu has the most pop (by differently large margins) and on one where it's pop is rather low.
Compared to the other factions the Orion is a really good weapons to start with, but the Guass Saw is 10x better. Now the SVA-88 I think carries alot of bullets, more than needed. I think reduce the mag size to 55 and it would be pretty much be balanced.
Sorry OP, but you're wrong. You need more knowledge of the spreadsheets and general game mechanics to be able to make a fair assessment. The Orion and SVA-88 are not meant for hip fire. The unique feature of these two guns is their 0.75x ADS. They're best used for shorter range (but not CQC), where the 0.75x ADS has the maximum impact. Also... Orion has the same TTK and RPM as both the T9 Carv and MSW-R. Gauss SAW has the same TTK but lower RPM means it's not so good for hip fire; that's the disadvantage of NC though not a VS advantage. The best hip fire LMG in-game is in fact a TR weapon: MSW-R. It has the same RPM, bullet damage and clip size as an Orion, yet it also access to an advanced laser sight and soft point ammunition. Best CQC LMG in the game. However, it's not overpowered either. It's one of TR's unique advantages.
TR has two 750 RPM LMGs, VS has one. Of those two, one is the Orion with better attachments but no 0.75x ADS, and the other has a 100 round magazine and is free. The TR definitely still hold the edge there. Their -S LMG is also a 698 RPM gun, which is really good (same as the SVA-88, although with less advantages but more attachments), and they have one of the better 652 RPM guns (for all the good that does anybody). Where it counts, TR is still top of the bullet spam heap for LMGs.
You are right, but I am looking for something that is faction defining. Like no bullet drop, I am not saying it's anything crazy but it's cool because it is unique to the vanu, neither TR or NC have that. NC have the SAW for example with damage that has no equal on either TR or VS. TR compared to NC of course have the higher rof, no problem there, but when it comes to distinguishing from the VS there is kind of nothing that stands out you know, that's what I was getting at there is nothing that you can point out and say "that's a TR thing no one can match it". This is regarding to infantry weapons.
Having 40 rounds per mag on TR carbines and ARs is a pretty big deal, IMO. I've stopped using every single VS carbine but the Pulsar C specifically because 30 rounds is just too small for a 143 damage weapon in a game full of 100-bullet-hose-toting, Nano5+Resist+Medkit-wielding HAs. Even at point blank you have to reload after every kill. (500 armour + 500 heatlh +250 Nano5) / (143 * .55) = 15.89, or 16 shots to kill 1 HA user with Nano5 + Resist. Every single VS carbine but the Pulsar C and every single AR but the Corvus have to reload after every single kill when going up against these enemies. The TR weapons (and the NC 167-damage weapons) don't have this issue.
It is true that the extra bullets help out, and add to the effectiveness of the guns, but my point is even if we have guns that have extra ammo, it is not a unique trait. the EM 6 for example can have the 200 mag capacity with extended just like the carv s, but on top of that it does 167 damage which is cool that is the NC thing, the VS have lower capacity but they keep up with the fire rate and the damage, while retaining the better mobility and the no bullet drop trait (again just saying it's a cool thing to have as a unique faction trait). TR just feels neither here nor there our guns are buy no means less effective, there is just no definite trait to them.
I use only the Pulsar C because it's the only one that actually hits where you point it on a consistent basis, but yeah, the combination of low damage and low magazine count is a serious double-whammy. Faster reload times are nice and all, but when they're still measured in >2 seconds, it doesn't really solve the problem of combat reloading == death. The worst is the Eridani SMG. 143 damage and 25 rounds per mag. You -could- put extended mag on it, but it has so little in its favor for ADS firing that it was clearly made to be hipfired, and the adv. laser sight is a critical component of that. It is difficult to like this weapon.
The extra bullet trait might not be so significant on LMG's since there are high mag options on other factions as well, but it definately gives a big advantage on carbines and assault rifles which means you get that nice trait on three classes. And about the fire rate on those weapons, yes VS has one carbine (Serpent) with better fire rate, but on assault rifles TR has the fastest firing one and that thing also has 40 bullets in a mag. Fast firing weapon + small clip is pretty bad combination and thats why even tho I have the VX6-7 I still prefer the Solstice SF. Or Pulsar C. Heck why not even the default Solstice. VX6-7 shakes left and right when ADS and that makes hitting bit longer than hip fire range quite painfull and also means there is a high chance of running out of ammo from the clip before target is dead. Also the VS "mobility trait" on this matter is bit questionable. Yes we have two LMG's with 0.75 movement, but then again TR has two carbines (Jaquar and Lynx) with the same movement speed and it benefits two classes instead of one. On top of that those things also have 40 rounds in a mag..
I'm OK with mobility trait, but "standards weapons" with 0.75X are TR: -TAR -Jaguar -Lynx NC: -GR22 -CarnageBR VS: -H-V45 -Orion -SVA-88 The issue it all 0.75 weapons are close range dedicated but the SVA-88 is an all rounder LMG and that makes it very well performing at close range, even with long range attachements. I would prefer see it on the Polaris wich is a dedicated close range weapons (adv laser sight+SPA) like all others TR/NC weapons with 0.75 bonuses. VS mobility trait is already active by better COF while moving (ADS and hip for LMG's, ADS for AR/carabines) on some of them weapons. NC are screwd anyways by just getting 2 AR with the 0.75X ADS move mult as "standard" weapons. (AR/Carabines/AR) but have generally better weapons at medium/long range (200 damages and 167/600 weapons) .
Orion a beast at hip-fire? Definitely not, it's not bad, but it's not a beast either, and the statement that it has a chance against a shotgun is completely false (unless he misses the first shots of course), the Orion's strength is in its ADS, I use it even in CQC sometimes. That said, if the Orion gets nerfed, I swear I'll switch servers and hunt the OP for a whole month, and I'm sure he won't like that.
The orion don't deserve a nerf, it's a balanced CQC LMG close to MSW-R/Anchor, with less attachements, but better mobility.
What I meant is that everybody has 0.75 weapons. Iam not saying they shouldn't have those, but the point is that it really doesn't make mobility as VS trait. 40 bullets in a mag is clearly a trait for TR since VS/NC doesn't have a single weapon like that. Same thing with the 200 damage weapons, only NC has those. Sure we have the "no bullet drop" feature but it only applys to weapons where it makes little to no difference so.. Anyways I get what you are saying about the SVA-88 not quite fitting for the 0.75 category, but then again having the mobility bonus on LMG is not quite that usefull. I mean in a firefight HA uses his shield which makes him slow anyway so having 0.75 movement there wont make much of a difference. But having the 0.75 on carbines and on light assault which is all about mobility has a much greater impact. Put 10 more bullets on top of that and compare it to the Orion/SVA-88 movement bonus. I would say TR got a better deal here.
Nanite Systems weapons all have 0.75x ADS speed too and they're not CQC focused (too little burst damage to do more than 'ok'). So really, every faction can have a ranged weapon with high ADS speed, the NS-15M just has like 50 less rpm (it says 625 but that seems a tooltip error, fires just as fast as the 652 rpm weapons). Easier to use than the SVA-88 too, since it kicks less.
I stopped reading after you said they were too good.. They do their job, that is all they have to do, which is killing an enemy when they are needed to kill an enemy. I hate when people target LMG weapons as a source of backside pain and I think anyone who isn't targeting the HA with the shotgun and instead doing the mentioned sin against LMG users, should probably uninstall, but that's just MO. Much like you have your opinion on those scary robot dino p33n weapons the VS shake at you
