It should be clear to anyone that the Vanu LMG's, particularly the Orion/SVA-88, are simply too good at what they do. Better than SMGs in close range, better than other LMG's at mid-range, one of the few LMG's that can stand toe-to-toe with a shotgun in close quarters and still have a very good chance of winning. Forget that they have the fastest DPS of any infantry weapons. Forget their superior strafing speed, better sights, incredibly easy-to-manage recoil and cone, all of that. You can have those advantages, it's balanced with the clipsize. HOWEVER, the hipfire is too much. These weapons are simply too good at hipfire, utterly impossible to beat in close range unless you've got a shotgun, and even then you're risking it. Forget their counterparts, SMGs/Carbines/ARs don't stand a chance in close range, let alone other LMGs. At this point, the only downside to these weapons is clipsize and very long range engagments-hardly enough to balance out the fact that they're literally the best in the game at EVERYTHING ELSE. Reduce hipfire accuracy, and we've got balanced LMGs. It's that simple.
I started typing a message where I copied stats from the google spreadsheet, but it's late and I got bored. You are wrong. Stop crying "nerf!". Edit: And that's the stats. Take into account that the Anchor and EM1 have access to Adv Laser, and the Anchor has also superiour ADS accuracy.
The issue with SVA is: -High ROF weapon =>good at close range -great projectile speed+HV ammos+compensator =>good at medium/long range. Add to this: -High accuracy 143 damages LMG's (same accuracy while moving thant orion,MSW-R &T32). -Great magazine size (75 while most of CQC get 50-60). -0.75X move speed mult. -Few horizontal recoil The one drawback is an high vertical recoil. It isn't the best performing LMG for nothing. Solution1: less performing at close range. Transfer its 0.75X to the VX29 Polaris and reduce it's moving accuracy at normal state for 143 weapons (0.4 instead of 0.35), , reduce recoil to 0.35-0.4 instead of 0.45 or add advanced foregrip attachement, maybe reduce its ROF to 652 instead of 698 Solution2: less performing at long range. Remove the compensator and HV ammos, put it's accuracy at normal state for 143 weapons (0.4 instead of 0.35),slow down its projectile to 600m/s instead of 630 but add SP ammos . Actually, the one reason to use pulsar over SVA-88 is the price... Nice for a sideback! (SVA stats are all better than pulsar but the reload time: 4.18 instead 4.225, recoil:0.3 instead of 0.45 and SVA get better attachments: HV ammos & compensator)
Your trying to compare an LMG with an SMG? Every LMG has a faster TTK then any SMG. Horrible argument. Not to mention that I would trade the SVA-88 for the Gauss Saw. That thing is a beast with Adv Foregrip and comp. Every faction has specific weapons that have advantages. Don't feed into the typical MMO cycle of circle jerk nerf's.
The Orion is ridiculous. The SV 88 is still the best even after the heavy nerfs. I notice that they beat even shotguns in CQC. I feel bad for TR, they dont even have the gauss saw to counter the VS.
The Orion is a worse version of the MSW-R, doesn't have adv laser sight or soft point ammo, they both have the same accuracy and same recoil patterns, the NC equivalent sucks but then again GOD SAW... The SVA-88 is basically a pulsar lsw, but trades usefulness at long range (+50m) for faster movement speed ADS and better accuracy when moving. The SVA-88 is in no way comparable to the Orion, is it better in close range then the other 500 cert LMG's? Yes, but is much worse at mid-range then the TMG-50 and the EM6. If I wanted an NC SVA-88, I'd get a GOD SAW, as for a TR I would use the T9-carv. E
Best hipfire for Vanu ist the Polaris VX29 with advanced laser. Had an easy time getting auraxium with it in Biolabs. Just strafe, jump, fire your 100 rounds. Although the SVA-88 is the best allround LMG for Vanu, I like ht eUrsa more. It just fits my playstyle better. But I dont see any reason to nerf it. And @mxiter: never use HVA. The speed increase sucks compared to the massively increased recoil. Got it on 2 LMG, 200 certs wasted. It is only viable for battle rifles. Orion ist great at CQC, no arguing about that. But it sucks starting at medium ranges.
And next we nerf that and that and that, till all we have is pea shooters I would never call a gauss saw the one thing we have against VS LMGs...
Since SMGs do less damage than almost all other CQC options, do you want CQC Carbines and assault rifles nerfed too? Also, LMGs do not hipfire as well as SMGs. This is a falacy. Even the best LMG has a larger cone of fire and TWICE the cone of fire bloom at minimum, per shot, than SMGs, so they can't fire as long while retaining any accuracy either. LMGs do less damage and have worse hipfire than the CQC options of other classes, they're only good because they tend to need to reload less and because HA has a shield.
I uses Orion and MSWR exclusively and they are my favorite weapons, high RPM and can be effective at medium/long range with a grip and burst fire (it's not NC reserved ). About HVA, i uses it on my MT-50 and my gauss saw, i don't feel an huge difference with the compensator and still limit the damage degradation by far: About VS LMG's i fin them all performing over the average by far: http://ps2-stats.com/weapon/infantrytype/lmg/all/per-hour Just the orion is under the average => VS get 50M of the best LMG Why?? Firstly )0.75 move ads mult but it's balanced by the fac that TR get 2 carabines with it and NC get 1 AR more than TR/VS (they just had 1 extra gun with that specification). Secondly) VS get better COF while moving than TR/VS on every them LMG's (0.4 is the standard and TR/NC just 2 weapons each get 0.35 cof while moving weapons, whereas ALL VS carabines getting 0.35COF but Pulsar). it's like getting laser sight and forward grip stock on every weapon (people are using them weapons still???). OR: All PGM players that plays HA roll VS but i don't think so .
Though they do have an Orion with faster reload and an adv laser sight... Don't feel too bad for them
OK, some points on discussing issues, be they work related, political, or just balance pewpew on an internet alien planet: If someone raises a ludicrous issue, you do not discuss it. You dismiss it. You do not give it credibility. And never, ever concede anything trying to appear reasonable. The person who raised the ludicrous issue just gained an admittance that there is an issue. Now, obviously people prefer to "cry nerf and let slip the dogs of balance", instead of reading numbers. Here is the spreadsheet again. Compared to the SVA-88: The GD22S has lower vertical recoil, same first shot recoil multiplier, pin point ADS accuracy, the same hip fire accuracy and slightly less DPS. The Anchor has lower vertical recoil, pin point ADS accuracy, the same hip fire accuracy, and slightly more DPS. Also, the Anchor has access to Advanced Laser. So, here are two weapons with the same or better potential for hip fire, and superior ADS performance to the SVA-88.
GD22-S have less damages/magazine, less DPS and no the freaking 0.75X ADS move mult. The Anchor/SVA-88 DPS difference is about 7DPs... have less damages/magazine, not the 0.75X. Pin point accuracy for those weapons are effective while immobile, so never. First shot multiplicater is the less important stat of a weapon especially for close/medium range weapon. Both don't have HVA and compensator attachement and are much less versatile than SVA-88, especially at medium/long range. All VS LMG's get accuracy bonuses while TR/NC just get 2 equivalents advantage. The fact is that VS's LMG represent 50% of the most effective LMG of the game. It's actually the most imbalanced weapon type of the game. I'm OK with the Orion, it trades advanced laser sight and SP ammos for 0.75X move mult. T9Carv also don't have SP ammos/ALS but have a larger magazine and less accuracy.
You're bringing the Anchor into this? I love it but it's weaker than the 750rpm/143dmg guns at close range and annoying to control at medium. Pin-point ADS accuracy on the first shot maybe, but the horizontal recoil to the right is very harsh compared to other options, it doesn't perform nearly as well at range as, oh, any other NC LMG. Claiming the Anchor is comparable to the SVA-88 just doesn't help your credibility either. The whole reason the SVA-88 is so nice to some people is that it's so predictable to control. I mean I guess some people have bad motor control and can't adjust for its vertical recoil by pulling down harder, but it doesn't really pull to the sides very much. And, of course, moving faster while ADSing is hugely useful. The SVA-88 beats every NC LMG on ADS speed and bullet velocity, and, in a real fight outside the spreadsheets, only two of our guns can compete with both its range or damage output, the SAW and EM6. The Anchor's effective range is actually shorter due to getting annoying to use in ADS, and the EM6 has the worst velocity of any LMG. The SAW S and GD-22S are easy to control but do slightly less damage and lack ADS speed. Also, GD-22S has the second worst velocity of any LMG and no ammo attachments The SVA-88 is very versatile gun. It does enough damage to survive up close with the HA shield, keeps you mobile while ADSing, very easy recoil pattern, high velocity. It's easier to use than the Flare and its damage is better than the Ursa. Sure, at the ranges where the SVA-88 is better than other VS LMGs, a number of NC LMGs are just as nice, but those will all be clunkier to use up close either because they hipfire worse or, more importantly, don't have 0.75x ADS speed. I'm not calling for an SVA-88 nerf (I already debunked the claim that LMGs hipfire as good or better than SMGs, lol) but come on. Anchor and GD-22S aren't even on the same level of versatility here, although the GD-22S is remarkably easy to control.
If you want 0.75x ADS modfier get an NS-15M, its also very controllable but lacks DPS. Bullet Speed and reload times are top notch. If you like CQC, use an SMG or shotgun. And you may nerf every Vanu LMG if you give us an NC6 Gauss SAW. Deal? I'd really like 100 shots per mag @ 200 damage. I have an even better solution: learn the strengths and weaknesses of your guns and use them accordingly. And stop messing with the empire specific traits. If you want accuracy go Vanu, if you want the hard hitting guns go NC and if you want high RoF + large magazines go TR. Last thing I want is everyone using NS weaponry.
Fair points by Mxiter and Psykmoe. I also prefer the EM6. But I have to disagree about the first shot recoil multiplier. It is one of the most important traits. Too high, and burst fire is problematic. One of the reasons I and several others prefer the SVA-88 is because of the first shot recoil multiplier. It makes for a predictable recoil pattern, where the initial kick is not that much higher than the subsequent vertical recoil, and it is thus easier to compensate for, especially when burst-firing. That and the ADS movement are the SVA-88's main advantages. And most of the NC weapons have good to excellent first shot recoil multipliers, while only two per VS and TR. Anyway, I prefer the Ursa these days. The slower RoF makes the recoil even more manageable, and allows for easier adjustments in aim.
