The new user/player experience

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by DarkQuark, Mar 7, 2021.

  1. DarkQuark

    I have heard many people talk about the new player experience being terrible. At first I did not give much credence to that but after some thought I have come to the conclusion it is dead on.

    This happened because I logged on a few days ago and logged off in like 30mins because ,for whatever reason, I just got insta-killed one time after another. It occurred to me that for a new player that must be the most frustrating and confusing thing ever.

    Honestly, I am not sure what needs to be done. But I do know that if we can smooth this over for new players and assist with the learning curve it might help folks stick around.
  2. Ak69

    It's the devs hard on for outfits and pushing the redeploy dribble gameplay that mashes people into a meat grinder like headless chickens. That is how they think they can coax players into staying by creating high intensity cluster @#$@s, where a new player like yourself hasn't figured out what is actually going on, so you spawn in, run around sprinting and then get killed.

    I hope the devs read this and remove the train wreck that is outfit content and all the wasted man hours of those working to implement it and the entire culture surrounding it. They want you to join a squad or an outfit so you can follow them and stomp, you must not join these people. Do the complete opposite, though you will make less certs by playing solo, you will help destroy what they want you to do. Avoid joining squads or outfits, period. I will say to continue to play solo, it will make you a more dangerous, cunning, elusive and deft player. You will face people dropping on you in groups of 10 or more and work with the other solo players who are actually fighting rather than pressing U after a base is capped.

    To the OP the reason your getting insta killed is because hundreds of players can warp in and teleport ontop of you, suppressing you into submission. Just don't let them farm you and certainly do not join them.

    Without redeployment there still will be zergs but they will need to move together and protect their sundies, theres no more warping across the map getting the jump, the battle becomes more predictable and grounded in reality.

    Game needs huge sweeping changes and the current devs are not fit for this, they have years of nostalgia with a vision they believe will work. When it won't.
  3. Thalestr

    Game is borderline unplayable to new people and no friend I have introduced to the game has ever stuck around.

    It's a mixture of 3 major things I'd say:

    1) Bad balance and gear that exists almost entirely to farm and ruin the fun of other players. A2G weapons, HESH, etc. There is no reason for these to exist other than to pad stats at the expense of the fun of everyone else. It's not fun to fight against, it's not fun to constantly die to. Ruined fun = new player leaves and never comes back.

    2) Lack of direction. The game is a mess at this point and new players have a hard time understanding what to do, where to go, and what their chosen class should be doing. This isn't helped by having so much of the games mechanics going entirely unexplained, such as the population/spawning system.

    3) Let's be honest here; the game is at it's end-of-life and the majority of remaining players are sweaty as balls on a hot summers day. This reason, more than any other, makes the gameplay almost completely impenetrable to new players. There are so many players that are so good at this game that there is practically no way a new player can defeat them other than by total fluke. Nobody likes being railed INSTANTLY by guys at all angles that they couldn't even see. New players tolerate it even less. They have nothing invested in the game and nothing is stopping them from blowing out the game and getting 20gb back... which most do. The game is more stagnant than a roadside ditch filled with browny-grey water and Makkas burger wrappers.
  4. MonnyMoony

    The worst thing from a new player perspective is that the game has likely got much harder.

    The entry level equipment is pretty much the same as it was at launch, yet long term and veteran players have very many more toys and options than they did at launch (new camo, weapons, ASP, implants, Bastion, Colossus, OS etc) many of which seem to be focussed around farming, and this is before we consider all of the maxed out equipment, experience, skill or just plain sweaty try-hard exploits of the game mechanics that have been learnt and are frequently used by vets.

    The gulf between new and older players now is massive compared to where it was a year or two after launch.
  5. Snow Sheltie

    I hate to break it to you but Planetside isn't a Battlefield clone and it was never meant to be one. The game has an emphasis on large-scale teamwork on day one and to be honest if I hadn't joined an outfit I probably would've quit the game within a couple years instead of when I did, and I only quit the game because the devs made update decisions that made it difficult or outright impossible to play with my outfit anymore.

    I don't know what weapon changes have been made since 2018 but I remember that pretty much all of the default weapons players start with would basically be the best for their class if not for their lack of upgrade options with the exception being the gauss saw (a good gun when used by an experienced player but hands-down the worst gun in the game to give a newbie). I don't know where implants are now but I quit before they started getting out of control. I thought they were a terrible idea since nearly all of them were straight upgrades instead of side-grades like many of the weapons were at the time. I never bothered to express my disagreement to the idea since the devs had made it abundantly clear they didn't care and would push on anyways. I noticed a lot of devs like to do this; ignore dissenting players completely and push on whatever agenda they got no matter how much pushback they get. Usually ends badly for the game in the long run. Remember it's a hell of a lot easier to retain customers than attract new ones.

    I've seen what happens when players receive training on how classes work in a coordinated team setting (something you appear to despise, given your hatred of outfits). If they know how to play the classes, a group of players with new characters can hold their own vs higher leveled players. I witnessed this happen multiple times in my outfit's OPFOR training since we would throw all the vets onto opposing factions with low-leveled characters vs new recruits on the BLUFOR side. Sometimes it doesn't pan out for OPFOR if they go all strong silent type and forget to communicate with each other. The game itself, unfortunately, never provided even close to the quality of training my outfit gave to players new and old. We took the time to train for those who were interested because we wanted players who'll react instinctively in their roles without thinking about it and after doing that for so long I think I could safely say the average skill level of the typical private in my outfit was far better than other, similar sized outfits. It gives someone in a commander's role a lot more options to do more complex maneuvers or outlandish tactics that's hard or impossible to do with a bunch of random players.

    A lone wolf player isn't going to have much success, or fun, in this game. All those times I went lone-wolfing to work on specific directives, I wasn't having much fun. The devs NEVER addressed the simplest quality-of-life updates we desired (more than 5 ranks please? How about removing multiple inactive players at the same time instead of removing 500 players one at a time?). Instead they added updates to address population balance issues that does nothing to address any actual faction balancing and instead made it impossible to play with my mates. That's what made me quit, and it's gonna take a lot to pull me away from other large-scale teamwork games that have been in development since then (and developed at a faster/better rate than PS2).
  6. synkrotron

    it certainly the "marmite" of games. But I'm not sure if it is because of the "new player experience."

    Back when I first started playing, towards the end of 2013, I told my two lads to have a bash. My eldest, to this day, prefers role playing games, or stuff like Minecraft and sim type stuff. The youngest plays a lot of CS:GO. Neither lasted that long with PS2. They just don't like it.

    For the new starters that think they may like the game then the usual applies, and this is mentioned in a number of places across the web and in the game. Try to make some new pals... play in a squad... join an outfit. Even one friend is better than zero friends. And ask questions while in-game. There's always someone willing to have a break from the fighting to help with stuff.

    If I were to suggest just one thing, which would help newbies to make some decent headway, is either reward more ISO-4 to go towards Implants, or make them cost less ISO-4 early on. I have started a couple of new characters in the past few months and you only seem to earn ISO-4 currency through playing alerts or parting with hard earned cash.
    • Up x 1
  7. Ak69

    I didn't mention anything about weapons though, I do have massive issues with outfit resources, they need to be culled, in fact I'm fully supportive of the weapons and hardware, or implants, it just gives you more things to work towards and it's all good for the solo player. Perfect progression, it's the outfits that I'm out to try and destroy or severely cripple in their effectiveness, I won't stop pestering the devs or anyone who trys to challenge me on this, because past the outfits and squad play when the solo player is king, something that this game has never attempted to do, the success will be found, but if the game continues on this same trajectory it's not going to grow.

    Lets break down what an outfit does, they consolidate their players and ultimately use critical mass to overcome targets, that is outfits and squad play quantified into an easy to digest concept. This gives the developers a lazy excuse to hide behind. The mantra is "Well this game is team based and best enjoyed while in an outfit", not understanding that squad play is the natural progression from a good solo core first. If you can't even nail solo, your just banking on squad play / outfit play which is the reason why the game is lacking. Thus the creation of redeployside, the very thing that is killing the game.

    You said it yourself, lone wolf player isn't going to have much success, you're right because it's hard mode in it's current form and is the only reason the game isn't so healthy. You would have not quit had you played solo and the game blew you away, completely eliminating the need for outfits or squads to be great. Again, nobody is going to take away your ability to group with other but not addressing a very simple concept like not making the solo player THE STAR, is the failure.

    The reason why outfits are nasty for this game is because of the core mechanics. You can solo cap a base or an outfit can zerg a base that's defended simply with critical mass, the bases are not bases. They are poorly thought out even since beta and even after all the changes as well. If outfits can teleport around and crush bases with zergs, there must be a punishment for this, rock, paper, scissor. The failure is that bases are not bases, they should require significant effort to siege, not just trigger some shields and jump on a point. A counter to zergs that can punish if not done carefully BY the solo players, forget about useless outfits for once ( useless because they are killing the actual game ). In order to defend a base right now, you don't need skilled players, you don't need tactics or any sort of strategy, all you need to do is have more people. Don't delude yourself, We have only won a fight because we had more people. No outfit can overcome being rolled over by more players, non of them, they simply realize they need to leave and they run away, teleport and attack elsewhere. This is not a meta, but labelled as one.

    I'm not against zergs, in fact it will happen regardless, I'm asking that the core game be changed so that zergs ( which most often is outfits ) will also have a natural predator, one of the most dangerous threats to outfits and zergs is the total removal of redeployment, stronger bases and empowering the solo players to be effective against this sort of attack. Sieging a base should frustrate the attackers, so actually taking a base is a massive feat even with numbers. This is why outfits need their role shifted from base zerg cappers to civil engineers that are working FOR the solo player, not the other way around.
  8. Ak69

    The newbies arn't chasing rewards. They don't even understand what implants to use and they don't care, what they actually care about is wondering why there was 100+ players around them and then simply vanish, leaving them at a base undefended being seal clubbed by those that know what's actually going on.

    If you want the new player to understand what the game is really about right now, it would say something like this.

    Hello, new player. You should just follow the people around you and make sure you are in the group with more people at all times. Often these players will press the U button a lot, especially after a base is captured or pushed back, just do the same and try find them again. Bases are not important, they don't mean anything but simply an arena for players to congregate to , so they can fire ammunitions at each other.

    Join a squad because you can track them better and you can piggy back on the zerg, you will have very little impact as a solo player, you also get cool stuff for following the group. Don't try and defend bases you see that are being taken, you're probably outnumbered by a group, but you can try troll them from behind sheilds if you like, else find that large group.
  9. Grandizer

    I started around mid 2019 and as as everyone else before me that never played at launch, was a new player also. Coming from Battlefiled EXCLUSIVELY since Modern Combat on Playstation 2 , BFBC, BF1943, BFBC2 BF3, BF4 I can tell you the new player experience is rough because this game makes you adapt to entire new type of gameplay. If I can do it so can any new player.

    The hardest thing I had to toss out the window is I cannot run and gun and take out an entire capture point by myself. There is no throw a nade, switch to grenade launcher, blow a hole in a wall and take out 2 campers, run in and hip fire my way to a cap. This game is 360 degrees and not footed into a blinded line if sight where you know enemies will never be...enemies can be anywhere.

    The key to me getting better was DEFINITELY getting into an outfit so you learn about the bases, the point capture preferences, what bases to ignore. Team killing is reduced as there seems to be more awareness and mutual respect to your surroundings where blueberries will just stand and run in front of you when you're engaged.

    The issue to me is the lack of slowing down when a new player comes in, not watchin g their placement and not picking their spots. IF you slow down and become more aware of where the enemies are and where they are coming from, you won't be fodder. Trust me I was struggling to get kills when I started and I was frustrated but I kept at it and adapted better
    • Up x 3
  10. OneShadowWarrior

    I am there cash cow after 18+ years of playing the game and I completely agree. The true essence of the game lies within the solo player. I said it from the very beginning and then they got a wild hair in the *** for Outfits, Outfit Wars, Platoons and Squads.

    I have said it time and time again, I don’t have a clue who they are listening to, but I don’t have to spend money to support endeavors I don’t agree with either and that spigot is staying shut as there is no incentive to spend on lack luster developments.

    There was a time you joined a squad or community because you had fun with those people. Now the mentality of Outfits is what is your Kill/Death Ratio or winning at any cost, usually at the cost of others.
  11. OneShadowWarrior

    They’ve lost focus that the game should be fun at the cost of a few to justify the many.
  12. CarlAdam

    I started playing this game because I liked the trailer and gameplay videos of it, I knew it looked fun in the gameplay videos and while I did suck at the beginning I knew I could reach the same level of fun with some practice, for me it was jumping into gunner seats or spawning my own tank and following others around.

    I don't see the point trying to cater to people who will quit within a few hours if they die too much, they have some sort of mental problems anyway.
    This game should focus mostly on polishing and fixing bugs to keep its core playerbase which can only grow if you keep them satisfied.
  13. Thalestr

    This is a great way to make sure nobody will ever take what you have to say seriously.
  14. CarlAdam

    ''The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. then quitting the game''

  15. Ak69

    You don't need other people to teach you any of this, it's basic observation skills that comes with playtime. What you're trying to say is you followed them around to see what they did, well you can do that anyway. Squad play and platooning has taught you it's a much easier way to play because you always have people around you, so you saw more success in numbers.

    If you have 2 equally numbered platoons on each side, both focused on team play, it's only at this exact equilibrium that you can claim you had more skill / team work from a victory, everything else is just numbers. Squad play is not about team play, nor is platooning or outfits in general. Your sole goal is to outnumber the other side. This is why the current meta favors zergs, it's the critical mass that's needed. The counter to this is redeploying to cap areas where you have the numerical advantage.

    Bases should be the counter, not redeploying. Bases should be feared.
  16. Snow Sheltie

    Gonna be a little hard to address everything you posted since it’s a bit all over the place (my post is a worst mess) but I’ll give it my best.

    Since I know virtually nothing about the outfit resources since they were added since the last time I played, I honestly have no comment or stance on them. Quite frankly, all I wanted done outfit and platoon/squad leading-wise was just some plain quality-of-life improvements. Things like more than 5 ranks, the ability to remove multiple players from the outfit in one click so it’s not a chore to remove 100+ inactive members. How about an actual working drawing system for the PL/SL that actually shows up in the bloody minimap? I’m absolutely convinced the devs have not put any time into playing their own damn game in order to see the problems a number of us have complained about for years. Outfits didn’t need any special tools or items, they just needed improvements to the administrational aspect so they’re easier to manage.

    Now, I was initially impressed with this game upon launch. My first experience was being unceremoniously drop-podded into magrider armor column, shooting an engineer who was repairing one tank, and being blasted by the tank behind him, and then spending about a month on Esamir trying to learn how to fly before finding a platoon that communicated with each other instead of playing like they’re in a silent film. My solo-time in this game, however, was as enjoyable as some Battlefield game, which is not very much. These types of large-scale games don’t really bode well to solo play because they were designed for team play. PS2 by its nature was never meant for lone wolves. They were never meant to be the ‘star’ of the show. It makes about as much sense as trying to go solo in Squad; doable but undesirable. The only way to make a solo player the star is to change Planetside 2 so much that you end up with a completely different game.

    The reason why solo play is punished so severely in Planetside 2 compared to something like Battlefield is because everything scales so dramatically in this game. There’s so much freedom for players to move from battle to battle (which is far truer in nature to a mmorpg-type game than the standard fps game). There’s no matchmaking (I despise matchmaking) or servers (player-run or official) with a population limit of x vs x-number of players running a map in a small location. The result of this is that battles can (and often do) scale dramatically. Its how we ended up in scenarios of 40 HE prowler tanks bombarding the spawn point (and subsequent base redesigns and nerfs to mitigate this issue). Its how half a dozen flak maxes can turn a base into a no-fly zone. Before they added 101 ways to kill maxes, it was how max crashes were such an effective shock tactic to break a stalemate. As a side-note, the number of people I’ve seen blatantly using cheats is a grand total of 3; aimbotting doesn’t work too well vs a literal army including walking tanks and real tanks. They also probably tend to disappear into all the background static in larger fights.

    Part of the reason battles often turn into numbers games is because of the dramatic scaling of force 50+ players can cause and this is due to the aforementioned game mechanics. The only thing really keeping things in check is friendly fire. Against those types of numbers, giving a solo player too much power is pretty much impossible to do reasonably.

    Now correct me if I’m wrong, but your overall grievance with the game seems to boil down to the redeploy mechanics, particularly your closing statements. I agree with you the redeploy mechanic is a problem in the game. I believe that severely limiting the redeployment mechanics would go a long way into forcing platoon and squad leaders to make better strategic decisions. However, (shoe on the other foot) will this be a detriment to a solo player’s ability to get to fight? Its my understanding the redeploy mechanics are where they’re at because the devs want to make sure a new player or solo player can quickly jump into fights without the hassle of driving/flying/walking to the nearest combat zone.
  17. DarkStarAnubis

    New player experience is awful. I feel pity for them for so many reasons:

    1. Any sane new player would think "PS2 = MMOFPS = big battles with plenty of people killing each other = let's join the biggest, raging battle I can find on the map and have fun ..." WRONG. Deploy where too big battles are taking place is forbidden,, it is anti MMO.

    2. The poor player looks at the map and shakes the head. Why not there? Let me think... Okay maybe I have to select "Join Combat" and I then will enter in a big fight. WRONG. Chances are he will join the defenders of a base 10 seconds away to be capped or spawn nearby an already flaming Sunderer about to explode and surrounded by enemies. Game over

    3. Okay, where should the poor player go then? THe poor player spots a spawn option and uses it, just to find the base completely void, nothing going on there. After a few thinking, a stroke of genius "I got it!!! I must use a vehicle to reach the other base where the big fights are taking place." So the player exits the spawn room and go to the nearest vehicle terminal, hears a strange noise and it is insta-gibbed by a lurking infiltrator with a power knife waiting exactly for that. WRONG again. Game over.

    That is just an example of how the game does anything possible to deter players from playing more... No wonder retention rate is abysmal.
  18. Blue_Lion

    Perhaps a new player tutorial solo session campaign. Basically a set of solo player maps, with built in voiced instructions to do things like watch out and take cover. intent to teach them the basics of combat before throwing them in the meat grinder.

    upon completing it charters under level 40 get a unlock of some of the essential gear/implants needed.

    That is about the only thing I can think of to improve the new player experience.
  19. ZDarkShadowsZ

    The new-player experience has been bad for years. The game is getting really old and many players who have been playing since beta are still around. Even those who've been playing since 2016 have a big chance to survive and be good at the game because they still have years of experience.

    I remember a few years back I really wanted to try Battlefield 4. So I bought it when it was on sale and dirt cheap. My friend wanted to play with me, so he bought it too. I was really looking forward to it, except, it turned out to be a complete disaster. Many players who'd been going since launch, or had been playing for years, still played it. They knew all the game mechanics, the tips and tricks, the cool hidey spots, all their gear was fleshed out. It was impossible to get into because I would just die around every corner. In the end we gave up because it was just not fun.

    That whole experience is what I imagine PS2 is like for new players. A nightmare.

    PS2 does a poor job of explaining anything. Why is there a giant ship firing at me? Am I able to shoot at it with my AA? I'm firing my rockets at it but it just doesn't die.

    There needs to be more interactivities on the HUD. Popups that explain things like, 'Hey this is a Bastion. You can only destroy it by shooting the hardpoints' and actually show where those hardpoints are. I try and do my part in /region messaging people letting them know they need to shoot at the hardpoints to destroy it, but of course only those who understand English will know what I'm saying.

    Another thing is that there needs to be more explanation into the benefit of choosing things. Why should a new player invest in X suit slot over Y suit slot. Older players know that using flak armour is a great way to protect against explosives. New players are given it for free, but they don't know when is a good time to use it. Again, more interactivities on the HUD are needed. For example, a player is constantly dying to explosives without flak armour on... there should be a pop-up saying something like, 'Are you dying to too many explosives? Equip flak armour and reduce damage by....'.

    At the moment all new players have are one-liners on the loading screen and the maybe chance that an older player is actually going to bother helping them.
  20. JibbaJabba

    Cyrious videos Surviving your first (and second, third) hour of planetside is pretty spot on.

    There is too much in this game to "new player tutorial" our way out of. The fastest path out of the new player experience is to get a social connection of some sort to a veteran.

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