The Lancer is NOT More Effective than the Others in Groups...

The statement that "the Lancer becomes much more effective in groups" is complete and utter BS. The biggest problem with this argument is that ANY weapon is more effective when used in a group. The only way this statement could be true, is if the Lancer suddenly had some way to overcome it's shortcomings and become significantly more effective in a group than the other weapons being used in a group.

Lets play a numbers game... Consider if you could give a number for each weapon according to how effective it is, it'd probably look something similar to the TTK number or damage output number. I'd give the Striker 2000, Phoenix 1750, and Lancer 1500 when used solo against vehicles. Yes, numbers would change for the Phoenix when you include whatever damage output they give it against infantry after the patch tonight, but the others wouldn't really change when you include infantry.

In a group of 10 people, that would make the Striker worth at least 20,000. If you consider that only one person has to expend a single rocket to get someone to use their flares/smoke, that would make it worth even more imo, probably something like 22,000 at least (a 10% benefit). Using those values, that would make the Striker at least 10% more effective when used as a group, but possibly a lot more than that as you'll see below.

In a group of 10 people, that would make the Phoenix worth at least 17,500. If you consider that there is no lock-on warning, that group would probably be as effective as a group worth 18,500 points. If you also consider that you can shoot from within safe cover, that makes the group worth 19,250. Even with an infantry damage nerf, SOE has said they will be doing even more damage against armor, plus they didn't say they were going to nerf it to the point of the Lancer's AI damage, so lets just add another 250 points and bring it to a nice even 19,500 points. Then finally, if you consider that they can arc it around objects to possibly hit something behind cover, that makes my value for the Phoenix worth something around 20,500 points. None of those benefits are huge, but when you add them up it does give the phoneix incredible potential when used in a group. That comes to the Phoenix being perhaps 17% more effective (and possibly a lot more) when it is used as a group.

In a group of 10 people, that would make the Lancer worth at least 15,000 points. To simply be "near" the same point value of the Striker you would need to increase it's effectiveness 47%. To simply be "near" the same point value of the Phoenix you would need to increase it's effectiveness by 37%. Is SOE really telling us that to use the Lancer in a group, we would increase our effectiveness that much OVER WHAT THE OTHER EMPIRES CAN DO WITH THEIRS IN A GROUP? Wouldn't that make the thing OP simply by looking at the numbers? Any weapon that gains a group bonus that is four times another weapon when used in a group (and it would have to be that to be roughly equal) would definitely be OP without it actually being in a group at all. Clearly the Lancer isn't that or we would have seen that right away because for something to be four times more effective in a group, it is no small matter which is easily over looked.

We must not forget that the Lancer leaves a giant trail in the sky for 5 seconds leading straight back to the person who fired it. If a group of 10 people did this, you'd have TEN LINES of light pointing straight back to their location, instantly showing the entire battlefield where a large group of softies is at. You might find it easy to track back with one trail of light, imagine 10 trails of light pointing to a group of people. Game over for them! Neither of the other ESRL have this problem to this degree. They still have it, but nowhere near as bad.

"But it is easier to hit with it!" I'm sorry, fast travel bullet travel time does not make it any easier than LOCK ON or CAMERA GUIDED. We still have to AIM, LEAD, and hit just like any other weapon that shoots bullets. I'd argue, for lower skilled players, it is actually more difficult to use the Lancer than a lock-on rocket or camera guided rocket. Is SOE saying that the VS have a lot more higher skilled players than the other empires? Seems that they must think that to me. (I hope this one really gets you guys riled up, it should!) If fast bullet time did equate to lock-on or camera guided, why aren't there more snipers out there owning huge groups of people? Easy... camera sway, which we still get with the Lancer due to mouse driven movement.

Lancer damage is lower than the other two empires, so you would need MORE people to equal the same damage output when in a group. Try consider it this way... there are multiple videos showing sunderers dropping to three reloads of rockets from the Striker, so a group of 3 could essentially kill the vehicle before needing to reload. The Phoenix and Lancer both take FIVE shots (so 4 reloads) before destroying a sunderer's front armor. That makes it so you need FIVE people to kill the vehicle in one shot from each for those weapons. Lets multiply the numbers into a group of 30 people. Thirty Strikers could destroy 10 sunderers at the same time while the Lancer and the Phoenix could destroy only 6. How can you not see this number difference? Looking at it this way shows that the Striker is 40% more effective than the Phoenix and the Lancer when used in a group.

How is the Lancer a LOT more effective in a group BEYOND what any other organized group could be? The answer is simple, it isn't. I'm sorry but the lancer is a terrible weapon because it does terrible damage due to a terrible design. This give the Vanu two weapons for our HA that are that way (they never did fix the Lasher like they said they would.)

Please don't argue that the weapon becomes even more OP when used as a group. I've a degree in Math and I can tell you, that this statement and assumption is false and completely invalid when applied to almost any case/weapon in this game from both a Mathematical point of view and a statistics point of view.

You forget that our's targets mountains instead of vehicles. Seriously, I pretty much does.

Skimmed until I saw that you think the Striker is accurate.

lol u silly

Wow it is funny how the TR say their ESRL is garbage until you look at real stats such as:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AmUavphHXmIxdFhHUzJfN1VYalRnWS0xMnBUdTJpM1E&gid=25
Numbers pulled today show otherwise gentlemen.

Plus you two people seemed to have lost track of my argument:
The Lancer is NOT more effective than the other ESRL when used in groups.
(At least it will never be to the point where it would be equal without more changes being made.)

Want to revise your previous statement? I guess I'm just better than you are.

Everybody is spending all their time on the forums theorycrafting about the lancer, and nobody is actually taking it out into the real world (err, I guess game world) and using it. Well I am, and I'm loving it. It's not nearly as awful as everyone wants it to be, and it's pretty damn fun to boot (not nearly as fun as the phoenix, though).

Did you not see the video I posted just above you? Seriously?

But the theorycrafters are the guys saying its good. Show a vid of it being useful.

The Lancer is a good weapon, you can't math up the scenarios its good in. Enemies do not get a chance to react if you're good with it. I see that you've fired it a total of 85 times, way to really get to know the weapon. It's versatile, it's fast, and they don't get a warning. You buff the damage and it quickly becomes OP in solo hands. Please try things legitimately before you badmouth them. Theorycrafting it's damage in relation to the other ESRL's is nonsense. You don't get 3 seconds warning or sound warning you something is near.

This weapon has a higher skill-cap that most won't give it the time of day to effectively utilize, this game needs more of these IMO.

Striker need not too much skill to use. Its is autoaimed. Lancer is skillshot.
Problem is that skillshot has lower DPS, and shorter actual range than autoaim.

You obviously know something we don't. Show us how its done then.

On you video, i just saw a guy wich thought that the lancer was a 6 clip AA machinegun.
You just aimed at aircrafts and was obviously outnumbered (8 infantries against 5-6 aircrafts)

On the striker part, you followed a zerg who pushed in VS territory while the VS were busy with higher group.

Of course i can spend my time at aiming an infantry with a striker, or an aircraft with a phoenix, tells that the weapon is crap because i use it in bad way and whine on forums.



Try to destroy an MBT quicker with an other lancer.

Oh, the video where you just use it to shoot at aircraft? I stopped watching when you said "the charging doesn't really work in the game."

Did you see tanks in the video? I didn't.

Speak English.

Then who cares what you think?

Wow another person who lost track of the fact that I'm saying that the lancer is NOT better in groups like Higby says it is. Plus did you ever stop to consider that I may have used it on multiple characters? Used it in situations that you simply can not track by looking at my stats? Did you ever stop to consider that I get data from methods other than using it? People who assume that the only way to gather valid data is through personal one-on-one interaction with an item are complete idiots. I hope you aren't one.

Get this thing back on topic guys. The whole thing is about the fact that the lancer's shortcomings (and yes, it does have quite a few of them documented my multiple sources across multiple days from multiple methods) are NOT overcome by using it in a group any more than any other weapon can be used in a group.

I needed a tool to open this can of soup, so I went to the store and bought a calculator. OMFG THIS CALCULATOR IS HORRIBLE.

You're absolutely right, I should have told those 6 full galaxies, 3 liberators and multiple mossies to hold on while I change my rocket launcher. I'll be sure to use the yell in chat next time.

The striker or the phoenix would have been much more useful in that situation but instead I had a lancer.

I saw in the striker part
Just to tell to use the weapons in the way they works:
-Charge 1 for close range
-Charge2 to for medium range
-Charge 3 for long range
Charge 1 isn't jack all trades.

Would mean launcher, sorry, i'm tired.

If you get a striker or a phoenix at this moment, that wouldn't made any difference.