[BUG] Strikers hitting my ESF from 1300m away?

So, the distance was 1300m? Infantry is only visible upto 700m, so everything that get launched by an Infantry who isnt visible, will also not be visible for you, even when it hits.
That is the problem in PS2, that you get hit by something in your vehicle, that isnt visible. So how did you know, about striker at 1300m?

Probably not, but it shouldn't be too hard to create balanced artillery.

For example, instead of the usual "one player sits in the vehicle and lobs stuff at other people who can't even see it", we could make artillery an automated vehicle. You drive it somewhere, deploy it, then buy a target designator at a terminal on the vehicle (upon buying the vehicle you get one free but subsequent designators need to be bought each time you die).
This instantly overcomes most problems with Artillery: The player firing it has to be in LOS of the area, and similar to the OS it can have a limited range to prevent too easy shots and allow anyone nearby to retliate against the player and prevent it from firing (but unlike the OS it could have a longer range). The designator doesn't have to be a dart, it could also be a visible laser that takes a second or two to designate a target or area. How visible it is depends on how powerful the artillery is, more powerful means more visible laser. This makes it easier for anyone who gets targeted to see he is being targeted and gives them time to murder you before the artillery activates and starts firing. artillery itself can then fire a magazine of shots, rather than a single one. The type of ammo can also vary. From normal impact shells to missiles that you can guide up to 50m or so away from the original target in case it's moving or something to shells that explode and shower the ground in explosive bomblets etc.

The farther away you place this artillery, the longer it takes for the shells to arrive and the farther you have to travel each time to replenish your target designator upon death. Because you are nearby the target you are designating render range isn't a problem. I think this is a perfectly balanced idea already, and you can also have other variants that are balanced.

I knew the tanks where about 800m away - had just barely rendered. I also knew the mountain from which the strikers were being fired was about 200m higher than the tanks, about 200m to the right of the tanks and about 4-500m behind the tanks - the entire base length of Lithcorp Secure Mine. The strikers where in the mountains behind the spawn room and the tanks were at the base of the mountains near the road in front of the base - hidden in the foothills trading with defenders in the towers in front of the base right near the road leading from Ikanam Motor pool. I was VS and would come out from the warpgate and get my angle as far from the strikers as I could and fire on the tanks with my ESF - from stoneridge reserve that the VS still controlled. As soon as I fired, 3 striker HA's would unleash a salvo of 18 strikers at me and though most would miss/be dodged enough hit that I could not stick around to fire another salvo at the tanks. The tanks were protected by a skyguard, but it couldn't hit me very much - maybe 1-2 shells per salvo I fired. The strikers were the problem.

What's really annoying is that the VS and NC have no AA that can effectively deter at that range.

You're perfectly right, buff Skyguard range

The Striker has had both extreme range and pinpoint accuracy for a very long time now. You have too crouch and single click each Rocket to get this. But doing so and testing it in game, I have been able to hit Base Turrets that were so far that they did not even render.

The drawback is that if the target moves, it becomes much harder to hit them. And if the target does evasive movement (not a straight line) it becomes impossible to hit them.

The Striker's extreme accuracy and range were why I played TR the most. Because it allowed me to break up zergs by hitting Armor targets until they moved. Just getting armor to move then opened up a facing on the bases siege, and defenders could get out of the spawnroom. The VS had Lancer and I would have played them, but Scythe is too slow and since I played ESF solo, it meant I couldn't get away from enemy Reavers even when spotted a good distance away.

With regards to non-lockon (the one it is now, not the one it was when released) Striker vs. ESF, I flew ESF a ton and never found it a huge problem. Usually it was a flare that alerted me to the location of the HA so I could then go and kill them. I may have died to it a handful of times, but that was only when a Striker hit me after I was almost dead already. A bunch of Striker HA's in a repair bug Valk were an unkillable threat, but even then I could just fly away from them and they couldn't kill me.

I used super range, super accurate Striker a lot and it was great for disrupting zerg armor (make them stop camping and move, not actually destroying them) and taking out base turrets and abandoned deployed Sunderers from a distance, and it was very helpful in getting CQC Harassers to go away. I preferred to use Lockon for AA, unless it was an ESF that was going CQC, and even then it just got the ESF to back up and didn't kill it. It was a handy tool, but I didn't get almost any kills with it and only blew up abandoned vehicles.

It's true the Strikers didn't kill my ESF, but then we couldn't kill their tanks or sunderers either with air because we had no chance of getting close enough or staying long enough to do more than tickle those tanks and sunderers - 3 HAs and 1 skyguard could keep 7 Scythes and 2 Libs from getting any kills. To be fair, the sunderers and prowlers did switch to AA when we tried. If it had been 3 NC or VS HAs going AA, it we would've killed them all off because the lancer and phoenix are simply weaker against AA w/o the lock-on ability of strikers.

That's a box of worms if those calculations are server side, especially with the ridiculous ping players have on Connery and how fast aircraft move.

It also seems like flak does something similar, as every other pilot I shoot needs twice the lead of the next guy. Or maybe it's rng cursing me that day. Did I ever tell you how much I hate that weapon?

Maybe Pythagoras is to blame...........the distance to a target that is 400m away on the level is 500m if he is 300m above you ("the square on the hypotenuse......" etc etc).

I thought about it too. Seems like distance (for lock-ons) kinda subtracts vertical value from horizontal one resulting in more range for lock-ons when you are significantly higher than your target. In practice when you are 500m from your target and 50m higher the effective range for lock-on is 450m and it should be about 502m meaning that the higher you get the further your lock on works.

Just a theory but it feels as if lock ons have more range when I am higher. Fun note: it does not seem to work the same way with aircrafts unless I am on the same level as they are.

Where did you get that number? It's 300m. That's it, that's why lock-ons were set to that range, because the prvious 450 let HAs shoot you without being seen. 300m. This has to stop.

Another one. At least you had the old number correct. Critical Mass changed the max range for lock-ons to 300, same range that infantry render to vehicles.

I just got the number out of my head for the sake of making an example. Still, I must chack it with waypoints what is the actual range I can lock on with Annihilator. For sure I can stand at the A point building in the Crown and lock on to vehicles leaving TI vehicle pad. If I'm not mistaken it is more than 300 meters.

The problem with 300m max lock-on range is that vehicles and aircraft can shoot SPOTTED infantry from huge ranges and infantry cannot use lock-ons to retaliate AND the infantry launchers cannot equip huge zoom scopes like vehicles can. Archers, Strikers, Lancers and Pheonixes, being the only real way to retaliate against long range vehicles. Without scopes though, Strikers and Lancers are at a big disadvantage to long range vehicles.

As for being able to fire lock-ons beyond infantry render range, it is only fair because it takes several seconds to lock-on. The short range gives aircraft, particularly ESFs, too much of an escape window.

Not true. Where are you guys getting this information? Honest question.

Lock on time gives A2G aircraft plenty of time to escape. 450m is basically the flight ceiling around much of these maps, and running from a lock on is almost guaranteed certain death from an enemy ESF. This 300m range was a critically necessary change. Now the problem is letting G2A be a serious deterrent within that defensive range. Or better yet, let it be a lethal threat if the weapon becomes skill based.

I fly ESFs and hit infantry at huge ranges with rocketpods when they are spotted by friendlies. I also run lock-ons and never get a kill except when the aircraft I engage are already engaged in A2A combat or are like BR 20s.

I dealt with a lot of enthusiastic enemy outfits deciding to camp our warpgate with a "deathstar unit" (Warhammer reference: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Deathstar_Units) built to kill all air leaving the Warpgate. It's a basic case of stacking the power of coordination and broken unit synergies, against the army of deaf, mute mime non-organized players. The trick is often to think outside the box to kill it.

What continent did this happen in, what area of the map, and what was their exact unit composition? Also, was any of your 10 players communicating with each other, either through a squad/outfit, or through text chat?

Most solutions involve flying to a ally base, spawning as a counter unit, flying back, parking, and then using that counter unit to kill them. Back in the day, you could just land and use an AV Mana Turret. Now, based on what you're describing, I am thinking I would try Infil with Sniper Rifle, as HA with Striker is stationary and easy to kill. A more thorough option, is to Spawn a (Stealth) Sunderer and park it either near them (but not where they see it) or at a location near an elevated position to snipe/av them from with Infantry (again, drive and deploy so they don't see it).

You guys and your blind obsession with making Skill Based AA, and empowering it.

Skill based counter systems are a disaster. They only help a very small % of players (high skill players or hackers), they are often "win-more", they don't help the average battle to deal with a problem adequately unless they have a skill player(s), and if they have a skill player(s), then the average battle handles the problem much too effectively.

Add in that the Air would have no way to determine what the skill-power level of the AA waiting for them will be before they get to a location, and once they find out they will either camp the location MORE (because no skill player is there), or LEAVE and just go find a location missing a skill-or-hacker player to farm. It's the problem that MMOs that make 1 class needed for a group have: it creates a bottleneck where most players are stuck in a low power output until they can get (and keep) one of the few key players they need.

PS2 ALREADY HAS skill based AA, it's called the ESF. And most players can't use it as (and hate it as) AA, and it's been a disaster for the game.

See my post #22. I'll add that it was a Connery 48-96 v 48-96 fight.

..... I'll have to pay more attention to that spotted infantry situation. I spend most of my flying time doing A2A and not farming infantry. Those lock-ons really are a terrible weapon and need to go. They're worthless 1v1, teach pilots bad habits, and instantly put an end to any fight once one side stacks them. I'm completely for easy to use weapons, but those things are cancer and combined with Coyotes are a big reason air is as ****** as it is these days.

Just FYI, It's actually post #23. But I appreciate the reference.

Were the VS getting warpgated? What bases did you still hold? Was it just the TR, or were the NC deep in your territory too? Also, what was each Faction's Continent Pops? Did the HA's have a Sunderer or Beacon to re-deploy from?

Lithcorp Secure Mine is a very hard base to take back from the warpgate, if both sides have even forces. They have all the cover and elevation, and you are totally exposed Air and Ground. It gets much easier if you can get Sunderers setup from *behind* the base (southeast), where attackers can swarm up the hillside and have an elevated position to lock down foot traffic through the base.

Air approaches on that HA position are tough because of the need to limit time of line-of-site, and the viable entrance and exit approach routes. One of the safest entrance approaches is to circle around low and behind the mountain range to the west, and then hook around West Foothills Airdock and (or even further east) and pop-up close and unload on em from there. But that leaves your exit routes greatly limited, because you want to use the moutain peaks right there to break los immediately, and then continue outside the fov of all the enemies around. So that leaves you flying low and east around the mountains to North Grove Post.

Also, just having one entrance route makes you predictable and so the enemies can line up AA the instant you pop into view. And you can't just reverse the entrance by coming from North Grove Post, because it doesn't provide the peaks don't provide the same los break heading south.

This is just a very bad location to try to do Air attacks. And a 48-96 v 48-96 fight is already a dense packing of enemy units that makes Air very poor, albeit the peaks do provide some methods to do approaches while limiting window of los and predictive/reactive AA.

And all the above, is *if* you have safe approaches along/behind the mountain ranges north and west of Lithcorp Secure Mine.

You best bet is to get a Stalker Infil into Ikanam Motor Pool, spawn a Stealth Sunderer, and then get it high up on the hills overlooking Lithcorp Secure Mine. Then ally Infantry can see it and spawn there to setup overlooking the base and swarming into it. Or, at the least, you can then progress on foot yourself to knock out those HA or at least provide intel on them (number, Sunderer or Beacon, tactics [which peak using as cover, etc.], etc.)

If your 10-man Air Team was all decent and miced up, you could just run a train on em from West Foothills Airdock Overwhelming their sustained DPS ability to deal with all of you.

But ultimately you to respect that Air can't solve all problems. Does anyone think it should? And sometimes the enemy can setup a Deathstar that Air cannot deal with. Sometimes you gotta land and use a non-Air counter. And sometimes there is just nothing that you can do if you don't have the numbers/resources, or they've setup in a particularly intractable position/formation.

Talking G2A lock-ons, not Coyotes or tomcats.