I am sorry that you got perma banned. But the difference you are trying to construct between a profiler and other tools is dull. It's true that there is a difference in the way the acquired data is used and presented, but this is not the case for the way the data is acquired. Profilers, Debuggers, ... acquire the needed data by interfering with the code and inspecting it. To make it short, there isn't really any difference between a profiler, debugger or cheat, they all try to get information from the code/execution/program state. You can nitpick about little details all day, but the only real difference is that a profiler uses that data to show you performance stats, a cheat to (e.g.) show you the position of the enemy. Form SOE's standpoint, I guess it was easy to spot you are messing with the game, while it's not easy to figure out what you are going to do with the acquired data. They could trust your statement that you only tried to profile the game, but who knows that you are saying the truth? In the end, it wasn't really wise from you to run development tools on an online game with your main account.
The only reason this exploit is deserving of a permanent ban is if you post like OP did. Glad to not see ya.
Good points thought the post, nice to talk with somebody with an understanding of the topic. If you look at it that way, yes. Their main function is to inspect the code, but then again similar behavior does happen with certain anti-virus software, particularly if it's running in sandbox mode for example. The important distinction is the lack of ability to inspect values at runtime. Vtune has a "hot" collection phase and a "cold" separate analysis phase. It's not that it would be a suboptimal tool. it simply doesn't have the functions. From their offices it's impossible to tell whether it was ollydbg, vtune, some legacy anti-virus or maybe a piece of invasive malware, I know. Misguided as my attempt to help might have been, I think there's enough circumstances to support the story that this is just a case of a user poking his nose where he shouldn't. You give the impression know a lot about this stuff srolf, so, no strings attached, what do you personally think this was?
If you are serious about your account you don't use glitches and exploit and whatever can get you banned, therefore I think it wasn't too clever from your side in first place. Although if I had authority I wouldn't ban you permanently because you did only one stupid thing.
Sagolsun, I've read through what you've posted here and I think it should be obvious to anyone that you're not a cheater. If for no other reason than that you used your main account while running the profiler. Not something an actual cheater would do I think! I hope that SOE will see sense and reinstate your account.
I remember getting rammed by a cloaked tr lib while flying my scythe a few weeks back, reported him along with the rest of my outfit, and yes it might have been you as we both play on miller exploiters get what they deserve, make a new account and start all over, and don't make the same stupid mistake again
You could have easily tested this in the VR training room..... but you did not. You "tested" this on other players. You could have tested this with friends, but you did not. Next time you plan on testing something for a game, it would be wise not to experiment with unwilling players. Find the bug, reproduce the bug, report the bug.
Sagolsun is not a cheater. He might be too nosy and too interested in the inner workings of software, but he is not a cheater. I played a lot with him, seeing as he is in my outfit, and he is a great contributor to the PS2 community. He made one mistake, and he' s been very open about it. In my world, that is the grown-up thing to do when one makes a mistake. My point is: Everyone can make a mistake. Even SOE, by reacting too harsh, like in this case. SOE, please reconsider - make the suspension/ban temporary! /Blothgar
Don't have to be a cheater to get banned... Exploiting a bug that gives blatant advantages is also against the terms.... Whilst standing up and admitting fault is nice it does not grant a free pass. Since profilers can be used for malicious reasons this is why they are also not permitted. Does not matter if you used it to help. Same way SweetFX can be used for Malicious intent by a small few who ruin it for the rest. Since the person in question did both... it greatly reduces the chance of a positive outcome. Not to mention using any third party program that interferes with the game in anyway has the potential to warrant a ban unless given the go ahead by the team. Heck i consulted a TSR about RadeonPro as it has sSeetFX integrated, the TSR was honest and said he honestly is not sure but i should refrain from using it and they will look into it.. Few days later, SweetFX is bannable and if this is picked up even if it is integrated into RadeonPRO it will put the account at risk. Surely someone in your position would of simply submitted a ticket on a profiler and clear it first....
so let me get this straight. you swapped infiltrator, pulled a flash with wraith cloaking, got off it, got in a liberator belly gun, then proceeded to exploit an obvious glitch which allowed for infinite cloak which is almost perfectly invisible with sky in the background. And after all that, you are surprised you got banned.
They gave people a warning period and told them to uninstal the game and remove anything left behind. Whether after this point it was a ban or suspension i do not know.
I know all that and I can read about it in the EULA/CoC/Terms and conditions or whatever SOE calls their version of it. They are basically the same in every MMOish game I ever played. The essence is always "we are not liable for anything, and the users have no rights whatsoever" So no need for lectures, mate. I am simply using my freedom of speech to advocate on behalf of an outfit mate, that in my opinion received an overly harsh reaction on an event he admitted to, and explained to SOE to the best of his ability. I am hoping they will use some common sense and act like grown ups. (Btw, SOE can write whatever they want in their terms, but they are still not above the law. And some of the points in their terms would not stand up in court - at least not in my country) /Blothgar
if i would have seen a cloaked lib bombing down on me, i just would have laughed and go on in the game, some people just take it too serious, however if there would have been 10 cloaked libs bombing the whole map for an hour i may would have reported one as well...
Thanks for your support man. I don't mind if people here engage in a discussion - for or against, in fact I encourage it. What's the worst when the other party doesn't want to challenge any argument and dismisses it outright. Kind of like "If you weren't a criminal you wouldn't be in prison" type of fallacy. And I have no intention of suing SOE. It's just a game after all - one that I enjoy very much, but there are better things to do. Besides, why should I challenge them on the legal battleground, when I could have good fun messing with computers instead? Hell, why should I challenge them at all? This all looks like a genuine misunderstanding, and I think it can be resolved to a win-win outcome. Kind of a shame I haven't seen any devs with colorful names responding here. The case is touchy and unusual, but I respect those guys, my occasional wisecrack aside, and I'd like to hear what they think about all this.
Well, that is sort of the point. If an exploit is possible and can be reproduced, it's going to spread if unchecked.
Exactly. And as a player you've basically got two courses of action: 1) Know that there is something wrong, but shut up about it and pretend it's lag. 2) Confirm whether there really is something wrong, write up a report and submit it. I think the second is the better option in the long run, though I understand not everybody will agree.
