so when can we expect VS to be balanced?!

I constantly see the 'VS are just better players' excuse thrown around,

If this is true then we should expect to see VS stomp the outfit wars.
Considering they usually win with an underpop on live they should be even better with forced even numbers,
'Just better players' with 'just better leadership' in a 1v1 scenario against the 'dumbdumbs' of TR and NC,
they should stomp.

On the other hand if it isn't the 'better players' and it is just a better arsenal that makes VS win on live,
then I would expect to see the VS get stomped by ACTUAL better players when VS can't just cruise by on their gear advantage.

why? Are 100% of players participating? I'm personally playing in OW on 3 servers across 3 factions. How does that one calculate? Not fully apples to oranges but pretty close.

And how many VS with their "superior weapons" are standing on podiums in the Emerald Sanctuary right now? Did you just prove that TR have the best weapons? (by your logic)

LOL you've got it figured out don't you? Listen to yourself.

If they lose it's because they have better guns but are not better players.
If they win it's because they have better guns.

Heads I lose, tails you win eh?

LOL. That's absolutely precious man. Bless your heart for that logic.

What I expect: The best players *participating in OW* are gonna win and it won't matter what weapons they are holding.

As for this OP as a whole: You need to spend some time on VS. Go on. And not just a little time. Go get excited about the handling on the Orion. Get giddy about it. Then over time grow some sadface about engaging NC at range. Let the shine of the new faction wear off. Be on the receiving end of a Banshee or something.

I think you'll find like I have that all 3 factions are really, really well balanced. Hotspot here or there but as a whole quite good. And If I'm forced to pick the one with the most deficits it's pretty easy to pick VS.

Everyone gets a sadface engaging NC at range against Godsaws =p as someone that has played a lot of VS and TR it hurts lol

I did notice interestingly, after spending a lot of time on TR, I find VS has a lot more controllabity in their recoil overall is about the only thing I felt, nothing game breaking but lordy lord was I overcorrecting. TR and NC recoils felt at least close enough I didn't notice, just NC guns hit like a dump truck full of whales.

Yes. I just wrote that...
if it isn't the 'better players' and it is just a better arsenal that makes VS win on live,
then I would expect to see the VS get stomped by ACTUAL better players when VS can't just cruise by on their gear advantage.
But bless your heart for agreeing with logic.

So WHEN VS get curbstomped in OW we can final lay that BS 'VS are just better players!' excuse to rest and accept the far more obvious reasons why the faction with an underpop wins the majority of alerts when populations are forced to be more even in an asymmetrically balanced game...they simply have better s**t.

And please quit with the condescending 'maybe you should try VS sometime!' BS.
As if i havent been kicking *** in my magrider since 2013.
I'd trade my TR prowler and NCs vanguard for my VSs magrider in a heartbeat.
The killstreaks I pull off with Horizon are downright dirty,
My favourite sniper in the game is the infinite ammo, no drop, two round Phaseshift
(one of my old signatures was a Phaseshift quickscope montage)
And don't even get me started on lasher, I'm getting clips together for a cqc lasher killstreaks vid.
Yes, I play VS, and have done for nearly a decade, yes I do better on VS.

I don't. told you that. Read it.

So don't let me straw man you but I just want to make sure I have this right:
You think if a team or teams on VS loses outfit wars that it proves the whole faction has overpowered guns.

and again... correct me here...
You think if a team on or teams on VS wins outfit wars that it proves the whole faction does NOT have overpowered guns.


I'm just trying to follow where you're coming from here. Seems like hogwash.

What server are you on?

Cobalt and Emerald.
But I'm willing to let this thread die now, there is only so many times me and demi can write stats and facts and have it all ignored by peeps who would rather pretend that one faction has 'Just Better Players!'.
'Just Better Players' motto is TM & Copyright 2012 Vanu Corporation. All Rights Reserved. Available on a T-Shirt near you!

Not big on shirts, but I'd buy that on an enamel pin.

My 2cents?
The only 2 vanu weapons I've had issue with are the obelisk(3 shot sniper for almost all classes with unlimited ammo) and bettle(obvious reasons). Otherwise, I'm more concerned with how unorganized TR is on emerald most of the time. This is including when I roll with ORAX(which ends up being one of like 3 outfits actually doing anything).

Furthermore, I hardly care about alerts anymore so I don't really have a dog in this fight.

I play on Cobalt too. Many people left VS and switched to NC nowadays, NC always getting close to 40% pop while VS struggles with 28% pop most of the time. NC needs to be nerfed, VS needs buff. They overnerfed VS and now noone wants to play VS. Currently NC is the meta faction, all A2G farmers switched to NC because of how ridiculously OP Airhammer is.

The stats arent the ridiculous 60% for VS but they do show that on high, medium and low population times the VS consistently win more than the other two factions except on one server.

The global kills is not a good measurement as it doesnt show the amount of players playing. This is similar to the Vanguard scoring more total kills and vehicle kills than the Magrider but on a per-pull basis the Vanguard is underperforming to the other two.

This magical thinking has been with the VS since day 1. ZOE, PPA, LPPA, the original Saron, the Betel etc were all good because of the players, not because the weapons were OP ofcourse.

Yet when you look at Carbon-copy weapons like snipers, shotguns and when available NS weapon statistics the VS does not show any more skill than the other two factions. In fact the VS more often than not scores 3rd with the carbon copy weapons. Weird huh?

So how does the VS score better almost exclusively with their faction weapons, but not the weapons that are perfect copies of weapons on other factions? Is this "hardening" happening just when the VS touches their faction specific weapons? Thats odd right?
Or we use occams razor and go for the simpler option: the VS weapons are superior. That is why despite being outnumbered the VS can score better.

I've also played the 3 factions, and where in the TR and NC I at least get a response the VS is just silent. Placing a waypoint is more like telling your VS platoon "DONT GO HERE PEOPLE!".

Hey it works for me! I touch Horizon and suddenly I'm 'Just a Better Player'!TM

At first I thought it was a bad weapon, then the nanoweave nerf happened, started using it with Unstable and Capsulate ammunition, who would've thought that decreasing bodyshot TTK, giving a weapon increased hitbox ammo, with some of the best carbine bullet velocity in the game and virtually no CoF with average TTK gives you a weapon where it takes more effort to miss than to hit.

I've just looked up a few VS characters on fisu, Horizon is the only weapon where ppl actively have 40%+ accuracy (which gets a rating of B - A, meaning there is around a 10-20% of users with accuracy better than that), but >15% HSR. "Skill guys!"


Only thing more broken than Horizon right now is the Newton.

Honestly, VS getting a blanket nerf because of a rage post... it wouldn't be the first time, but you bet it'd be the last time i played on VS over it. same goes for the majority of veterans who have been getting pummeled since 2015.

Honestly, switching to TR which only gets buffs despite having the majority of the playerbase, might be a good move for people who just want to not see their weapons consistently die due to rage threads.

Just imagine when they find out the Aphelion can beat the Vulcan mid-range (not close range) and is just as good as the Vulcan at anti-infantry. The only difference is, you need to learn how to use the Aphelion, you just have to hold down the mouse button for the Vulcan, hence it's insane popularity.

I mean hell, the Magrider might be able to go up walls, but the Prowler has the smallest hitbox, moves the fastest, deals the most damage, so much damage that it can melt a Vanguard, and has a built-in lockdown mechanic making it good at range too.

when it comes to vehicles, NC has been getting crapped on, VS has been getting nerfed, and TR has been the golden child since Wrel took over, again, despite Prowlers being dominant to begin with.

There's a nose-gun thread and everybody has the consensus that the PPA sucks in comparison to the insta-kill TR and NC guns.

The Horizon has a different function, but you've never heard anybody complain about the chaingun or the nighthawk? Or the consistent use of NC's GD-7 or sniping Gauss-saw?

We just had a thread about this:

The Magrider is performing similar and even better than the Prowler. So the total package that is the Magrider is a superior vehicle than the Prowler's total package.

Ironically no faction has received as much vehicle love from wrel as VS,
prowler got rampart shield which is quite nice, though very niche.
But they did lose the crazy OP version of lockdown.
Meanwhile VS got their magburner given for free built-in, AND faster magburner cooldown, AND Recharge ability AND omnidirectional magburner,
These compounding buffs are the reason maggy has been dominating the MBT heirarchy for the past few years, kicking prowler from its throne.

A good magrider is borderline invincible, able to dodge incoming damage, and if ever they do dip down to 50%hp they will simply zoom away to repair.

Thanks demi for posting the stats!

But yup we can all agree PPA is objectively worse than the other two, but it is still OP.
Personally I'd like to see PPA damage halved, and Airhammer and Banshee reduced down to that level,
Groundpounding is lame and shouldn't be as effective as it currently is.

I dont think we need too talk about VS being too strong. Rather then, why the hell did they revert that Scattermax Nerf?
It was and is again, out of balance compared to the other Maxes, specially the VS MAX.

You've kinda raised two points here against your own argument.

The VS have the worst A2G gun. Just a standalone fact there.

A2G is in an OP state right now. Guess which faction has the least effective G2A options? Ok NS But after that it's VS...

Everyone know NSO is the OP faction.

Dont' be jealous about our power.

TR Striker and Banshee, NC ScattMax and AH, VS Magrider and Heat mecanic are nothing.
Because we have the Holy Javelin.

NSO best faction by far
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Btw i'm tired about the faction crying posts. I know I'm not the only guy who play (seriously) the 4 factions, and you know ? Ok, some factions have some advantages, but also problems, and no one faction is better or worse. NSO included.