so when can we expect VS to be balanced?!

VS is the most popular choice for scrims, PIL, and lanesmashes on Jaeger.

LOL, just kidding.

Nobody chooses VS equipment when given the choice in a competitive setting. Pretty telling.

What kind of nerfs are we thinking here?

Should all vs equipment be lowered 1 damage tier? should they start having damage drop off at 1m? should they have 90 degree recoil angels?

How far do you push VS down until it is "acceptable"?

Respond with stats only.

If you're saying that VS wins on prime time because of better gear, mind explaining why VS loses hard off-prime on most servers and why does NC have the highest win rate on Soltech and during Server Smash?

Outside of primetime the faction populations are not forcefully balanced so NC (or TR on some servers)
win most alerts thanks to having half of the players on their team.
But then when the faction population controls do become active and VS are only underpopped by a small amount,
they win the majority of alerts on every server.

VS players will tell you that this is because VS are always just magically the best players on every server,
and they actually think that is a reasonable and acceptable answer.
And yet whenever we see these 'better players' in a competitive scenario like outfit wars,
they get stomped by ACTUAL 'better players'

And as Demi has repeated a million times,
when we compare cross faction stuff there is no difference in performance between the factions.

So now that we can throw that hilarious 'just better players' meme excuse in the trash,
what is the more obvious and reasonable explanation for why one average-skilled faction
is winning the majority of alerts across all servers...
Maybe...just maybe...they simply have better stuff.
This is the most simple explanation (making it the most likely)
And perfectly explains why one faction with no skill advantage dominates when the faction-pops are forcefully balanced.
It also perfectly destroys the 'just better players' nonsense, because as I said earlier,
VS get destroyed in competitive match ups where they can't simply crutch on having better stuff like they do on live,
a gear advantage will make you win on live with 400 randoms all at an advantage,
But in a competitive scenario against actual 'better players' your gear advantage is trumped by skill.

Firstly we aren't 'pushing them down'
don't try to word it like the faction who are vastly overperforming are somehow victims,
We arent 'pushing them down', we are reining them back in line with the other factions.

For starters i'd give magrider recoil so they need to adjust their aim after each shot like everyone else.
And decrease sideways acceleration/deceleration so they can't ADAD shots like infantry.

I'd give heat weapons longer cooldown periods for overheating,
and remove the ability for it to cooldown while unequipped.

Then I'd give beteldouche less predicable recoil so it is no longer the perfect chain-headshot machine
Then id give lasher slightly less damage on its splash.

Then wait to see if that is enough to rein spandex back in to line with the other factions.

Not even remotely true.

I did the calculations and per damage point almost every weapon class and range bracket has almost the same accuracy within that bracket. Difference is that for each "similar" weapon on the TR they have a higher horizontal recoil. This isn't as large a problem as others make it out to be but it's not neglegible either.

Also the DPS is all over the place, it's not exclusively TR that has the highest DPS (unless you want to back that up with a handful of common weapons of several weapon classes?).

Both Lightnings and Harassers are faster than Prowlers. So it's kind of hard for a Prowler to "outrun" them (besides you rarely get the opportunity to try and outrun someone when you are so threatened that you need to).

There are definitely outliers in the TR arsenal, the Banshee and the Vulcan being examples. That does not mean the TR is immediately the most OP superfaction overall.

The overpop is different depending on the server you play on. Server culture differs and even between continents the culture differs. But there are still constants, like the VS winning the most alerts on all factions during all timeslots except low population (using the population brackets of PS2 alerts, look them up yourself it's already posted in this thread by me).

proof? I've never actually seen the data that supports that.

Also isn't it odd that the VS is supposedly the most well organized and competitive of them all yet they aren't on your server when it comes to the actual organized battles? Weird huh?

Also also the balance should not be considered for the very very badly set up "official" games. They were badly tacked onto PS2 without a regard for the actual game and what it would do.

Someone posted something about that on this thread. Who was it again? Here's the quote:

If you go to PS2Alerts (https://ps2alerts.com/) and look at the Global Victories you can see the VS have a higher victory rate at Prime time, High pop and Medium pop. They are equal in low pop and only lose in dead pop. Still the total alerts in the first 4 brackets is +/-16.600 so the dead server alert wins might count for 1/3rd of the total but it's undeniable that 2/3rd of the time the VS is winning.

As for who wins server smashes, it's because players in server smashes use the best gear they can get so the average player and starter weapon choices don't matter. This puts them far closer to one another in terms of effectiveness as the VS weapon advantage is smaller on average.

Yeah I dunno about that.

If you want VS to win less alerts, nerfing vehicles is the opposite of what you want to do, since vehicles don't win alerts, infantry on points do. I guess you want the VS win-rate to actually increase?

Isn't that just nerfing the darkstar, skorpios and the carbine since those are the most likely to overheat compared to the juice since it has a larger mag, being an LMG after all. Not sure why you want to nerf those.

I mean they'd just swap back to the orion then, or are you going to nerf that too until the only headshot capable guns are NS ones, unless you want to nerf the VS versions of those too...?

It only has 75 indirect at 1m. How much more lower do you want it go lol. That's even before flak armour.

It won't, because your nerfs don't really do much make VS loose more. If anything you just gave them more infantry on point thanks to magrider nerfs.

Yeah, you dont.

The VS claims their arsenal is the worst performing outside of a few outliers.
We look into it and find their overall performance to be pretty much average, with the outliers being specifically high-use weapons like starter weapons.

The VS claim their tank is oh so bad, like the worst of the 3 MBT's.
We look into it and find the Magrider to be the best performing tank of the bunch.

The VS claim that only during prime time does the VS win any alerts and they lose at any other time.
We look into it and find the VS wins at prime, high, medium pop and plays equal on low pop. Only on dead servers with a bare minimum of players does the VS lose more.

The VS claim that their faction is simply the highest skilled of the bunch, which explains their superiority.
We compare carbon-copy weapons across the factions and find the VS to not have any superior skill.

The VS claims their faction is simply the best organized of them all.
The VS then ruins that notion by also pointing to the VS not winning at any official gametypes where organization actually matters, but blames it on "bad weapons and gear" without proof that their organized groups actually have bad weapons and gear.

I mean just about every claim has already been refuted. Why bother making another claim? Why bother clinging to this cognitive dissonance of VS having simultaneously a superiority complex (we must be the most skilled because reasons we cannot tell you) and inferiority complex (we must have the worst gear because we just have*)?

*and dont you dare check that because we'll not believe any proof to the contrary and we'll never give but the most surface level of cherry picked stats.

On Emerald on Hossin around 1am, VS was so out populated that we kept losing territory in every conflict. Not Only were we rapidly losing territory every conflict has us spawn camped in the spawn room. Anyone who left the spawn room got deleted upon leaving. This went on till there was only a couple regions in each direction from the warpgate. As this went on from the start of the Alert, more vanu players either swapped or logged off entirely. I eventually logged off with 30 mins of the alert left because i was so stressed and pissed that i couldn't even fight. It was stand and die or log off, those were my only choices. This is what kills the game, this is what gets players to think "Well if its going to be like this everytime I play Planetside 2, why should I even bother playing" let alone them even considering putting money into the game.

I don't understand why you NC players victimize yourselves so hard because in Emerald NC does extremely well, and if they had the organization of any good outfit they would dominate Emerald. And due to ping I can't just simply "reroll servers". Force population balance 24/7, incentivize even more rewards for platoon / squad leaders on losing teams. Bonus EXP doesn't mean crap if you can't do anything to gain exp in the first place.

I forgot to mention I main NSO and I am almost always on either TR or VS as NC is almost top pop for 99% of the emerald servers time at least while i play during off time. And I feel like my NSO / NS weapons are inferior to NC and on par with Vanu, while being superior to TR weaponry.

I'm curious if you have read ANYTHING we've been typing...
Literally the comment above yours is Demi pointing out that no, they don't do well, nor does TR,
You can make as many BS assertions as you want, but we've given you the stats.


saying "I don't understand! NC do very well on the server where they lose 70% of primetime alerts!"
Doesn't really do anything except illuminate that you don't know/care if what you're typing is true...

I mean as a NSO Freelancer who puts himself on the lowest pop team, alerts are apparently not that important but nice nevertheless. But in Emerald more people care about the farms / mass cert / directive grinds than anything else. The only people on Emerald who cares about Alert wins are the 2 top outfits of the server. War Pigs (a TR outfit that just zergs territory) and Sokkars Legion (SKL a vanu outfit).

Outside the NC both TR and VS think that NC weapons are superior. Where NC on our server only thinks Vanu weapons are superior. However everyone agrees TR weapons are crap, even TR believes this themselves. So when you go based on alert wins, region captures and objective based stats and not kills / deaths based on weaponry which this whole arguement is about, it makes your argument look weak.

Quoted from Demigan above: The VS claims their arsenal is the worst performing outside of a few outliers.
We look into it and find their overall performance to be pretty much average, with the outliers being specifically high-use weapons like starter weapons.

So even to your fellow NC their weapons are average in general, with their starter weapons being used the most. The only thing he does claim that Vanu have that is superior to everyone else is the MBT.

The VS claim their tank is oh so bad, like the worst of the 3 MBT's.
We look into it and find the Magrider to be the best performing tank of the bunch.

Tbh I find the mag rider to be the most squishy of the 4 MBT's since he didn't mention Chimera (which we all know sucks). But Magriders do have the best mobility so in terms of in your face MBT's Magrider will always have the advantage. But in Siege range Prowlers dominate.

In your initial post you only complain about alert victories and not what Vanu is doing that is superior to NC. The only thing you were mad outside of alerts is how NC got "a little anti Air damage" on your weapons and vanu went crazy over it. And you know what? I'd go crazy too if I knew about it, as someone who used to be a TR main and is now a NSO Freelancer main. I think its BS that NC's weapons are busted and very strong. I think its BS that the NC is the biggest faction to victimize itself and is the most toxic on Emerald. NC has more pop on Emerald than anyone else, but man that just gotta be because freedom is cool and not because NC weaponry dominates? The only thing I believe NC is extremely weak in is their MAXs. Its almost as bad as NSO which is still the worst... possibly. Both NSO and NC MAX's are bad. So I'm going to call you out for what you are, a person who is playing the victim game so you can have as little challenge as possible so you can feel better about beating other people up. Which is clearly evident in how hostile you are in the debates you take part in within this thread.

Show me weapon statistics in a comparison between NC getting kills and dying to other faction weapons and Vanu getting kills and dying to other weapons. And if you're feeling charitable you may as well throw in TR.

I play all 4 factions and I really don't see any one of them being OP to any of the others

I like the magrider on Amerish in certain situations but I prefer the vangaurd most of the time personally.

I don't get peoples obsession with VS weapons, I do think they are good learning weapons though

I prefer TR's sidearms when I'm not using NS sidearms, the majority of the other weapons I like using are NC though, but I don't have a problem with TR or VS weapons I just like the feel of shooting the NC weapons personally

I prefer the TR max to the others, I will admit I feel handicapped when using a NC max

I don't fly, just not my thing but I can tell you the mosquito is my personal nemesis in Air to Ground, I feel its easier to hit and kill the scythe from the ground anyways

The majority of the time when I play NSO I usually end up on the VS side, I have been it battles where the whole VS side is NSO lol

I agree. We've had several patches in a row where VS has been subtly nerfed, and it's bad enough now that VS pops are falling and people are playing their NC and TR alts. It's time to bring VS back up to a competitive level (gear wise) with NC and TR.

Besides everything else wrong I'll just correct this bit. The outliers on the VS are the SUPERIOR WEAPONS on the VS. So having a superior weapon as a starter weapon is obviously better for the faction as a whole as more players are using a powerful weapon than the other factions.

The whole point of that list was to show how many times the VS claimed something to show why they are such a poor faction only to prove that they arent poor at all, in fact at almost every turn they come out on top.

Your post is just another claim. "NC has the most victories on Emerald its just a constant steamrolling cus NC be the bezt".

Ok so we check PS2Alerts ( https://ps2alerts.com/ ) and... on Emerald the VS wins the most alerts at all population levels except during the dead hours. Weird how your idea doesnt match the reality huh? Its almost as if you are biased and making unsubstantiated claims based on subjective experience just like every other VS claim!